Why are laptops so poorly designed?

[OOOOOOOO]

If I drop something on my plastic to toshiba, it bounces of without a mark, on the apple, it leave a big dent.

My old toshiba also does not get warm in the slightest despite heavy gaming.

Also aluminum body does not by definition mean it looks better. It also doesn't blow hot air on the screen causing discoloration.

No it doesn't! LOL! Blows hot air causing discolouration?! I'm a designer by trade working every day on it, and I can assure you, that statement is all hot air.

And if you drop something on your Macbook Pro enough to cause a dent, you'd smash your plastic laptop. Don't be so stupid. Dropping something light enough to bounce off of your laptop means it won't make a mark on a Macbook Pro.

What kind of statements are these? THOSE are fanboy statements dude. Think before you post.

[Subhadip]

I have used a whole bunch of laptops throughout the years - nothing like a Thinkpad.

As for the whole Macbook vs Toshiba debate, it's a bit silly really. The reason why that particular Toshiba is made of plastic is because it costs half as much. Toshiba makes high end metal bodied laptops as well - such as the Protege Z835. In my opinion, it is just as well built as anything from the Apple line-up. In fact, they are built by the very same people - Pegatron - using the very same machinery and materials.

[123456789A]

Toshiba's lovely plastic cased, plastic screened laptops ...

Apple's Aluminium Cased, Glass screened Macbook Pro's

There ... argued. And no offence, but if you still prefer a creaky plastic laptop with a regular screen, I'll happily keep using my Macbook Pro with it's solid body, huge trackpad, automatic adjusting keyboard backlight, and glass screen with far more vibrant and crisp images.

:) Now ... I'm not arguing this anymore. You know I just can't stomach being called a fanboy just for enjoying a high grade product. If I was bigging up a ?100 Acer and saying it was better than anything else, fair enough, but come ON ... lol...

So why are you comparing a $300 laptop to one that costs 4 times as much? Of course the materials and components will be different. I have a Macbook Pro and it has really been a letdown compared to the Powerbook G4 it replaced. It constantly gets hot in Mac OS X when doing something as simple as browsing photo libraries. Hot to the point where it should include a fire suit. They shouldn't even call it a laptop because that would be dangerous. Then the noisy fans come on. To be fair, noisy fans have been a problem on all the laptops I've ever had, but the threshold for them coming on is very low on the Macbook. It also makes a clicky sound on the bottom like something is loose inside.

At the time I bought it, I didn't see any PC laptops with comparable (on paper) build quality and components. After seeing some of the recent designs coming out from other manufacturers, I think my next purchase won't be Apple.

[Subhadip]

I have had some terrible overheating problems with the Early-2011 Macbook Pro 15. It used to freeze completely in the first month or so at load consistently. That was fixed with the 10.7.1 (I think) update. Even since then, it does get extremely hot when the GPU (OpenCL) is stressed. The MBP 13 deals fine as it doesn't have that discrete GPU. I absolutely love my Thinkpad W520 - an awesome, awesome laptop. Yes, it's 0.3 inches thicker than the MBP but so much better in every (other) single way. Love it. If I could triple boot OS X, Windows and Ubuntu on the Thinkpad I would never go for a Macbook.

[+virtorio MVC]

The MacBook Pro is pretty well designed. Take off the back cover and you can full access to the fans, RAM, HDD and battery (if you want to void your warranty). I've cleaned mine out + replaced RAM and HDD a number of times.

By contrast, my old HP laptop (business model, not consumer) has an issue with it's fans (as in, they don't really spin anymore). You have to dismantle the entire thing to get access to them. There is no way I'd ever successfully get it back together again.

[HawkMan]

No it doesn't! LOL! Blows hot air causing discolouration?! I'm a designer by trade working every day on it, and I can assure you, that statement is all hot air.

And if you drop something on your Macbook Pro enough to cause a dent, you'd smash your plastic laptop. Don't be so stupid. Dropping something light enough to bounce off of your laptop means it won't make a mark on a Macbook Pro.

What kind of statements are these? THOSE are fanboy statements dude. Think before you post.

Since I sell and repair laptops, and I know about material interactions with heat, I can tell you that hot air on a laptop screen over time causes discoloration of the screen material.

Have a look on any laptop with exhaust wents that blows on the screen that's 2+ years in light and you'll see. Generally it starts out like a rainbows surface around where the air comes out, like a oil puddle when you see it in the light, after more time it gets more yellow browny surface discoloration without needing the light to hit it just right.

[Kreuger]

They were designed perfectly for what they are suppose to be. The difference is that consumers forget that these products are not designed for what consumers expect. We expect the products to last as long as possible and be designed for that. Business expect and design their products to make money. Forcing uninformed consumers to replace their laptops because they fry themselves with bad air management is good design for that singular purpose, the purpose of making money for the business. Light bulbs come to mind as the best example. Light bulbs that burn for 100 years have been invented. The light bulbs we currently have are designed to fail so we will keep coming back for more.

The problem is, these things used to be made to last. Now they're made to die in no more than 2 years so you have to upgrade. I have an old IBM laptop that still works great. I broke off the trackball and the case on the corners of the screen was cracked when I bought it (used) but the damn thing has been stepped on a bunch of times and no issues. Stepped on my Toshiba and hello $220 screen. Most crap is so poorly made these days, it isnt funny. You won't ever see an LCD panel go as long as old CRT tvs do.

[Solid Knight]

Macbooks are ugly.

[Coi]

Macbooks are ugly.

What kind of reply is this?

Even as a PC user I can tell they don't look that bad.. But what does this have to do with the topic?

[Arceles]

No offence but I probably know a lot more about computers than you do and I'm hardly an Apple fanboy.

The facts remain that overclocking a laptop is a bad idea for a multitude of reasons including increased power use, increased heat and increased fan noise. Not to mention the possibility of permanently damaging the components or reducing their life span. Stick to overclocking desktops that arent designed to such tight power and temperature envelopes.

But again none of this has anything todo with the notebook build quality.

No you really don't because you try to apply a generalization to all laptops, when you simply haven't even done one yourself, plus I really have a degree and around of 15 years working on repairing hardware PC parts, so... no.

[Vice]

No you really don't because you try to apply a generalization to all laptops, when you simply haven't even done one yourself, plus I really have a degree and around of 15 years working on repairing hardware PC parts, so... no.

Well actually yes, as I have more experience than that. :)

[Arceles]

Well actually yes, as I have more experience than that. :)

Then you simply are with the wrong idea that one cannot experiment with laptops, which is *your* point of view, while all of my experience has told me that there is no problem whatsoever and that in fact, the performance increase is by far really worth of it (sure you loss warranty, but I know pretty well those risks because I know my hardware)

BTW, 1 year and going steady with the OC.

Photos if you like:

By arceles at 2012-03-03

By arceles at 2012-03-03

By arceles at 2012-03-03

By arceles at 2012-03-05

[HawkMan]

Some laptops can be overclocked without problem, but this is mainly the ones where the same chassi is use for several models. The chassi and cooling system is then over engineered for the non top end models and often for the top end ones to.

[OOOOOOOO]

So why are you comparing a $300 laptop to one that costs 4 times as much? Of course the materials and components will be different. I have a Macbook Pro and it has really been a letdown compared to the Powerbook G4 it replaced. It constantly gets hot in Mac OS X when doing something as simple as browsing photo libraries. Hot to the point where it should include a fire suit. They shouldn't even call it a laptop because that would be dangerous. Then the noisy fans come on. To be fair, noisy fans have been a problem on all the laptops I've ever had, but the threshold for them coming on is very low on the Macbook. It also makes a clicky sound on the bottom like something is loose inside.

At the time I bought it, I didn't see any PC laptops with comparable (on paper) build quality and components. After seeing some of the recent designs coming out from other manufacturers, I think my next purchase won't be Apple.

Comparing them because people keep comparing them! I don't give a **** how much something costs. The fact is, even the most expensive of most other brands are still made of cheap materials. Because these days ?500 is an 'expensive' laptop. Supposedly.

Point is ... I don't understand why you'd have heat and fan issues when I don't ? What year and model? Mine's a later 2011 2.4 i7 15 inch. Doesn't get too hot. I have it on my lap very often working at home on my design stuff (trackpad designing isn't as fun as mouse but hey, when there's good films on...!). I dunno ... mine's not caused me any issues.

Regardless, this is a stupid argument, but my point was people bitch at Apple users just because they like their machines. Like it's some kind of sin to like the stuff you use. And I've stated multiple times in this thread that I have owned Windows laptops and I have also had many desktops on Windows that I liked.

I'll tell you EXACTLY what the reason is ... people HATE success. As soon as you become a success, people want to bring you down. Google, Apple etc all used to be the little guy and people loved them. Now they're bigger, people think it's something to attack. Well, I disagree. It just means I know the company that makes my favourite stuff won't go bust any time soon.

Btw, for the record ... Two years ago, I'd have been one of those idiots slagging Apple off because I didn't have a clue. I was dead against them. No iPhone, no Mac etc. I got these items and realised what a f**king d**k I was being by blindly slagging off the quality stuff they make.

My girlfriend has an IBM Thinkpad btw ... and it's a bloody great machine. Not all laptops are crap that aren't Apple. But the Thinkpad she has cost a fair few ???. Certainly more than your average HP or Acer.

Since I sell and repair laptops, and I know about material interactions with heat, I can tell you that hot air on a laptop screen over time causes discoloration of the screen material.

Have a look on any laptop with exhaust wents that blows on the screen that's 2+ years in light and you'll see. Generally it starts out like a rainbows surface around where the air comes out, like a oil puddle when you see it in the light, after more time it gets more yellow browny surface discoloration without needing the light to hit it just right.

And I can tell you that I put my hand over my laptop that had been on for 6 straight hours, with full gfx enabled, full screen brightness, fully powered running Photoshop all day, and it had no hot air coming out of it. Do you honestly think that if the screens distorted from all this apparent hot air, Apple would continue to sell them? I sit next to a guy with a few years old machine that has no screen issues. My guess is it would take a freaking decade for anything noticeable to happen. But by then, any other laptop's screen would have died a death anyway so it really is moot even discussing it.

[Vice]

Then you simply are with the wrong idea that one cannot experiment with laptops, which is *your* point of view, while all of my experience has told me that there is no problem whatsoever and that in fact, the performance increase is by far really worth of it (sure you loss warranty, but I know pretty well those risks because I know my hardware)

BTW, 1 year and going steady with the OC.

Listen I never said you can't overclock a Laptop. I told you it wasn't a good idea. What you've done with your frankentop is remove protection grills to increase air flow and add a seperae external positional fan to get even more air out of your notebook.

What you've done is just silly and you've not really proven your point. If anything you've made your notebook a health hazard and ruined it even further by butchering it up in that frankenstine OC machine.

If I wanted to I could cut some holes in my MacBook Pro and mill my own pot and strap that down on to the T9800 fill it with liquid nitrogen and OC the **** out of it but that doesn't mean it's a good idea does it? And it certainly wouldn't make it portable or usable.

[Arceles]

And I can tell you that I put my hand over my laptop that had been on for 6 straight hours, with full gfx enabled, full screen brightness, fully powered running Photoshop all day, and it had no hot air coming out of it. Do you honestly think that if the screens distorted from all this apparent hot air, Apple would continue to sell them? I sit next to a guy with a few years old machine that has no screen issues. My guess is it would take a freaking decade for anything noticeable to happen. But by then, any other laptop's screen would have died a death anyway so it really is moot even discussing it.

Just to be fair, photoshop ain't that demanding, full GPU and CPU Usage = gaming, try battlefield 3 (even at low settings... if your mac can manage them) or DiRT3 with the settings at max, you will see how it really burns.

[Arceles]

Listen I never said you can't overclock a Laptop. I told you it wasn't a good idea. What you've done with your frankentop is remove protection grills to increase air flow and add a seperae external positional fan to get even more air in to your notebook. What you've done is just silly and you've not really proven your point. If anything you've made your notebook a health hazard and ruined it even further by butchering it up in that frankenstine OC machine. If I wanted to I could cut some holes in my MacBook Pro and mill my own pot and strap that down on to the T9800 fill it with liquid nitrogen and OC the **** out of it but that doesn't mean it's a good idea does it? And it certainly wouldn't make it portable or usable.

You're wrong... the fan inside the laptop blows air into the aluminum fins, to reduce heat from both GPU and CPU, the other fan is used to extract hot air from the rest of the components.

Once I made the hole just below of the laptop fan the whole machine would heat because the other components, plus ram and HDD also generate heat, the same heat that was before pulled out by the single fan that this laptop had using the "intakes" from the keyboard and the very small holes of the vents below it.

The big exterior fan is in charge of extracting the heat of the whole laptop, hence the very low temps on the palmrest even with the extreme heat of my country nowadays, this way there neither heat inside the laptop nor heat that it's not disipated by the GPU and CPU.

Man... you really don't know how GPU Desktop fans work do you? because the big extractor fan is just a mere copy of them.

[OOOOOOOO]

Just to be fair, photoshop ain't that demanding, full GPU and CPU Usage = gaming, try battlefield 3 (even at low settings... if your mac can manage them) or DiRT3 with the settings at max, you will see how it really burns.

Maybe ... but I have a PS3 and wouldn't consider putting games on my Mac, which is set up to make music and design. I bought a Force GT 240gb SSD ... 240 measly GB and it wasn't cheap! :D LOL!

To be fair ... you know what's happened ... and I'm just as to blame here....

Mac Vs PC. And it's boring. I'm not gonna argue anymore :) I love my setup, and I know everyone else here does. But I am no fanboy, and I'm assuming no one else here is either. :)

[Vice]

You're wrong... the fan inside the laptop blows air into the aluminum fins, to reduce heat from both GPU and CPU, the other fan is used to extract hot air from the rest of the components.

Once I made the hole just below of the laptop fan the whole machine would heat because the other components, plus ram and HDD also generate heat, the same heat that was before pulled out by the single fan that this laptop had using the "intakes" from the keyboard and the very small holes of the vents below it.

The big exterior fan is in charge of extracting the heat of the whole laptop, hence the very low temps on the palmrest even with the extreme heat of my country nowadays, this way there neither heat inside the laptop nor heat that it's not disipated by the GPU and CPU.

Man... you really don't know how GPU Desktop fans work do you? because the big extractor fan is just a mere copy of them.

You're right it is used as an exhaust. I'm tired I typed it wrong, so sue me. Everything else I said was correct your laptop is a Frankenstein piece of rubbish. Congratulations.

And yes I know exactly how blower fans work.

[Arceles]

You're right it is used as an exhaust. I'm tired I typed it wrong, so sue me. Everything else I said was correct your laptop is a Frankenstein piece of rubbish. Congratulations.

And yes I know exactly how blower fans work.

Yeah, you may say that, but my laptop does look sexy and blows by far yours, now because I need to be sort of mobile I haven't created my own desktop, but with more options and more customization I assure you, it would blow also :D

[Rigby]

Applying your rant to automobiles.

Common sense and maintenance is your friend.

Why does someone always make a stupid car comparison when talking about computers? If you must go that route however I might point out that it is extremely simple to change the air filter in a car. You don't have to take the entire vehicle completely apart and remove the engine to clean the air filter. Plus it does have an air filter, most laptops do not. There's really no way to maintain a laptop that way. Yes you can buy a can of compressed air and try blowing the dust out every week but no one does this; eventually you do have to disassemble them to clean them.

[Vice]

Yeah, you may say that, but my laptop does look sexy and blows by far yours, now because I need to be sort of mobile I haven't created my own desktop, but with more options and more customization I assure you, it would blow also :D

:huh: indeed.

[bbfc_uk]

My MacBook Pro only got hot when running Windows 7, but since I installed Windows 8 CP it doesn't get hot as much and the fans don't need to kick in. Bizarre. Apart from that it very rarely gets hot. I like the fact it doesn't have any vents on the bottom, i mean, whats the point in those when the laptop is placed on a flat surface? There isn't much room underneath there. My old Dell Inspiron had vents all over it (mainly on the bottom) and got really hot all the time. It was a total heap compared to my MBP.

[ccuk]

Yeah, you may say that, but my laptop does look sexy and blows by far yours, now because I need to be sort of mobile I haven't created my own desktop, but with more options and more customization I assure you, it would blow also :D

Because having a wart like appendage on the bottom of your laptop screams sexy.

[Arceles]

Because having a wart like appendage on the bottom of your laptop screams sexy.

U mad bro? :D