Minnesota girl alleges school privacy invasion

[jdegree]

Ah, I heard about that bit, yes..

So by signing up for an internet forum "illegally" you forfeit all rights ?

Either way, that's more of a legal issue, this has nothing to do with Facebook's TOS as far as I can see.

Reference for above.

4. Registration and Account Security

Facebook users provide their real names and information, and we need your help to keep it that way. Here are some commitments you make to us relating to registering and maintaining the security of your account:

5. You will not use Facebook if you are under 13.

http://www.facebook.com/legal/terms?ref=pf

[Seizure1990]

Please look up "in loco parentis." It's a legal doctrine that grants schools quite a few parental rights.

There have been a few limits placed on it by the Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier Supreme Court decision (1987), and since then computers have been added to the mix, but it does allow pretty significant privacy intrusions if the students comments etc. are related back to the school environment, events, relationships (ex: bullying) etc.

I doubt those rights extend to the ability to demand passwords though.

That would be pretty funny if the police can't legally force someone to give their laptop password, but a school can force a kid to do it.

[DocM]

Cops are limited by having to show probable cause, schools (via in loco parentis) and parents are not.

Same goes if a cop sees a fleeing felony suspect - they need probable cause they are dangerous to shoot them, but here in Michigan a citizen making a citizens arrest can fire away - no probable cause requirement.

[jdegree]

Please look up "in loco parentis." It's a legal doctrine that grants schools quite a few parental rights.

There have been a few limits placed on it by the Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier Supreme Court decision (1987), and since then computers have been added to the mix, but it does allow pretty significant privacy intrusions if the students comments etc. are related back to the school environment, events, relationships (ex: bullying.) If it could effect the school, they have a case.

You are right, a FEW limits, very few. But getting a password for an email account is uncalled for.

[Japlabot]

Would you be so kind to elaborate on this? Is this a legal statement, or is this a social construct? I do not have kids, so I don't really know. (no sarcasm) It would SEEM to me that what a person does outside of school could not be legally an issue that can be "prosecuted" by the school system. But I could be wrong, hence the reason for me asking for some details.

Thanks.

You would have to review the specific terms of enrollment That the parent/guardian signs to enroll their child, but they all basically say that they have to follow the rules (in or out of school) or the school can take internal disciplinary action (eg. Detention during or after school up to a certain time, suspension, expulsion) or legal action (extreme circumstances). When you sign the contract, you are giving the school civil "jurisdiction" to take disciplinary action (within the context of the school environment) for breaking the rules - including out of school rule infractions.

This is not superior to the legal system, it is purely contract law between two civil parties. The school can't do anything contrary to law (in this case they may have taken things too far by demanding logins, but the principal that they can't take disciplinary action for actions done out of school is wrong) nor can they force the parent to accept the childs' disciplinary action. If the parent does not accept, and can not reach an agreement with the school, they can simply invoke the termination clause (paying a fee if required) to withdraw their child from the school and avoid the disciplinary action that the school wishes to take.

Private schools are particularly strict with out of school rule infractions as they have a reputation to keep as part of their business model to attract students to their school. Schools don't want to get a bad reputation because they don't discipline their students of out of school behavior which leads to parents choosing other schools for their children where they feel they will not be exposed to as many "bad kids" who lack discipline and are a bad influence. eg: A group of kids from a particular school gets caught damaging public property, this news would make the local paper, and prospective parents would not want their kids to go to this school because they think that kids from this school are hooligans.

In is case the Facebook posts did directly reference matters relating to the school (eg: Hall monitor staff) so it is even more justified for the school to take action.

No different to a workplace agreement. If a Cop has been charged with armed robbery conducted completely independently of his employment with the Police Force, then it would be appropriate that his employer (The Police Force) to take disciplinary action (suspension/termination) pending the outcome of the charges, even though what he is charged we has nothing to do with what he did on the job, but just the fact that he has a reputation to uphold at all times as being a good citizen which would reflect the reputation of his employer.

[DocM]

You are right, a FEW limits, very few. But getting a password for an email account is uncalled for.

That part of Hazelwood is yet to be tested, not that there aren't test cases working through the system (including this one.)

[mokthraka]

Regardless. They forced her to give her password. It would be no different then forcing her to give them a key to a safe in her house.

[James Rose]

This is not superior to the legal system, it is purely contract law between two civil parties.

(note: I am pulling most of the quote to avoid my reply being unnecessarily long)

Thank you for the info. Because this is only a civil issue then i would ASSUME that the school forced the person to break their contact. Facebook's TOS require that you do not share your log in credentials. I understand that because this girl is under the age of which she could sign up for Facebook so that may nullify that... but I am still curious about if the first act (the student) allows for the staff to violate the second. But I hear your point.

I FEEL that is a bad idea to force children/students/employees to divulge what they do outside of the area (school/work). I FEEL that the school is going to be in hot water on this issue... but I could be wrong.

Thanks again for the details.

[Sir Topham Hatt]

****ing dick heads, if someone did that to my child I would beat them within an inch

WOW - that's grown up of you!

They threw a stick at me, so I threw a rock at them.

[mokthraka]

WOW - that's grown up of you!

They threw a stick at me, so I threw a rock at them.

man... when I get home... the memes are coming!

[Japlabot]

Thank you for the info. Because this is only a civil issue then i would ASSUME that the school forced the person to break their contact. Facebook's TOS require that you do not share your log in credentials.

IANAL but as far as I know, The Facebook TOS has nothing to do with the school, as it is not a law, whatever breaches that may have occurred is between Facebook and the girl/her parents or guardians, and the school is not bound to it. Regardless of the Facebook TOS, I agree that forcing to hand over login credentials is wrong, and the school should face up to that bit, but they definitely not wrong in punishing her for her actions in a conventional way (eg: apology/demanid to remove it herself or face detention, suspension or expulsion)

[ILikeTobacco]

The fact that the kid was to young to use Facebook on her own is irrelevant to the overall story. If it was relevant and somehow made it okay for the school to do what it did, that means that if a 12 year old got on Facebook, I would have the right to abuse/harass the kid because they shouldn't be there in the first place. Also the story mentions that it wasn't just her Facebook, but also her email. Come up with a better argument to defend the school at least.

[n_K]

I got expelled because my school went through my phone and demanded I made a website available to them.

Now I think back on it, I should have told them to **** off.

[ylcard]

The fact that the kid was to young to use Facebook on her own is irrelevant to the overall story. If it was relevant and somehow made it okay for the school to do what it did, that means that if a 12 year old got on Facebook, I would have the right to abuse/harass the kid because they shouldn't be there in the first place. Also the story mentions that it wasn't just her Facebook, but also her email. Come up with a better argument to defend the school at least.

A million times this.