AT&T, Lumia 900:

[jakem1]

Most of the time when you hear about smartphones people will either say iPhone, HTC or Samsung, rarely do people refer to Nokia or Sony anymore. Those in my opinion are what the customers look to when it comes to phones. The Nokia Lumia might be a good phone but it's brand recognition that sells and honestly Nokia aren't the big hitters that they used to be when it comes to the consumer.

That's a different argument.

[George P Global Moderator]

Nokia is a big hitter outside the US, this hasn't changed with the Lumia and the switch to WP. If anything the 710 and 800 are doing well it sounds like. I'd say the 710 and 900 combo in the US will do well, so far t-mobile likes the 710 and how it's selling for them, or so they say. Just like people say HTC, Samsung or w/e they'll say Nokia and if a friend or someone wants to know more then they can tell them it's the Lumia 900 or w/e. What you guys are bringing up is just human nature for those who aren't tech geeks and don't care about the details like we tend to do.

[playXray]

At least do a fair comparison. Apple iPhone 4S is just as silly as Nokia Lumia 900.

I'm not talking about the iPhone 4S. Nokia are supposedly having a launch that is bigger than the original iPhone - that's what I'm comparing it to. It's a fair comparison to say that at launch, the iPhone was just known as the iPhone (or at a push, Apple iPhone), whereas this Nokia thing will be launched as Nokia Lumia 900.

If anything it's sillier because the S is completely meaningless. Your criticism of the 900 is just as silly given that you admit that there are other models (and your anecdotal claim that nobody's heard of them can be dismissed).

This is kinda invalidated by my above point.

I don't think anyone's interested in your mum.

Clearly you have no idea about marketing a product to a mainstream audience.

[jakem1]

I'm not talking about the iPhone 4S. Nokia are supposedly having a launch that is bigger than the original iPhone - that's what I'm comparing it to. It's a fair comparison to say that at launch, the iPhone was just known as the iPhone (or at a push, Apple iPhone), whereas this Nokia thing will be launched as Nokia Lumia 900.

This is kinda invalidated by my above point.

Clearly you have no idea about marketing a product to a mainstream audience.

By your logic the only iPhone that would ever have sold would be the original one because your mainstream audience would have been too confused by the name of subsequent models. Your points make no sense. The reference to the iPhone by ATT is about the size and cost of the marketing campaign, not about whether your mum is confused by letters and numbers but likes the look of the iPhone :rolleyes:

[playXray]

By your logic the only iPhone that would ever have sold would be the original one because your mainstream audience would have been too confused by the name of subsequent models. Your points make no sense. The reference to the iPhone by ATT is about the size and cost of the marketing campaign, not about whether your mum is confused by letters and numbers but likes the look of the iPhone :rolleyes:

No that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about introducing a brand to a mainstream audience, which is what Nokia are trying to do with the Lumia 900. Once you have introduced the brand, you can make subsequent amendments and your mainstream audience will stick with it (to a point). That's what Apple have done.

To be clear, I am, like AT&T/Nokia, comparing the launch of this Lumia 900 to the launch of the iPhone. My point is that having a name like Nokia Lumia 900 will not be as effective as a shorter name, like the iPhone had when it was launched.

[hougtimo]

So you're calling the Lumia phones "crappy" because of their name?

Ok.

Don't feed the troll, chaps.

[playXray]

No, but I'm calling you a moron for not reading my post properly. Just because I think they got the name wrong doesn't mean I think the phone is crappy.

[FalseAgent]

anyone else getting the feeling WP is gonna flop? Not saying it's a bad platform or anything (i like it), it just seems that they are wayyyyyyyy too late into the smart phone game.

Nope. In fact, they're just getting started.

I don't like the name. Nokia Lumia 900 hardly rolls off the tongue, whereas iPhone is pretty much a perfect name. Nokia Lumia 900 implies there are other previous versions - if so, where are they and why haven't people heard of them? (I know there's an 800 but literally none of my non-geek friends has ever heard of this). If Nokia are going for a bigger launch than the original iPhone, they are clearly targetting this at the mainstream, so why do they have such a non-mainstream name? It just doesn't make sense to me. They should have called it the Nokia Neon or something like that, which people will remember and will stand out as a brand new, exciting phone that people will be proud to own.

"What phone do you want mum?" "Oh, I'm looking at the Nokia Lumia 900". Can you ever imagine that happening? Not my mum at least. Compare it to this, which is what my mum actually said to me:

"I like the look of those iPhones, how do I get one?"

EDIT: Same goes for "Windows Phone 7". Do you know what my dad thought Windows Phone was? An actual phone! And who can blame him? How is he supposed to know that something called "Windows Phone 7" isn't a phone at all, and is actually an operating system? Add this into the Lumia mess, and you have a "Nokia Lumia 900 running Windows Phone 7". Such confusing terminology for non-tech people.

You're the first person who's actually complaining about the name of this phone.

It's even worse when it comes to android, FYI.

"Samsung Galaxy Nexus running Android Ice Cream Sandwich 4.0"

"Sony Xperia P, playstation certified, running Android Gingerbread 2.3"

"HTC One X running Android 4.0 with HTC sense"

and I have only listed 3 devices here. There are variations of each, with different skins and versions of Android.

but people are okay with that? In fact, people are going CRAZY over the Google flagship phone, the Samsung Galaxy Nexus running Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich. Do you realize that's actually 5 brands mashed up into a product? The Google brand, the Samsung brand, the Galaxy brand, and the Nexus brand.

I'm sure there people out there who do this:

Mum: "Son, what's your phone?"

Son: "oh nothing, it's just the Google flagship phone, Samsung Galaxy Nexus running Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich!!!1"

Honestly I think you're just over-analyzing things. Nokia Lumia is pretty easy to understand. At this rate, your mum probably will never be interested in any other phone other than the iPhone. Which I don't think will be true, because while your mum might be 'mainstream audience', i'm pretty sure she will be able to understand the brand.

Most of the time when you hear about smartphones people will either say iPhone, HTC or Samsung, rarely do people refer to Nokia or Sony anymore. Those in my opinion are what the customers look to when it comes to phones. The Nokia Lumia might be a good phone but it's brand recognition that sells and honestly Nokia aren't the big hitters that they used to be when it comes to the consumer.

Apple became more popular because of the iPhone brand. Samsung became popular after the Galaxy brand (before that, the only Samsung product I ever was interested in was my Washing Machine).

Nokia can do the same with the Lumia brand. End of story. The Lumia brand has already gained considerable traction.

[playXray]

Nokia can do the same with the Lumia brand. End of story. The Lumia brand has already gained considerable traction.

I agree with you to a point - but it's the 900 part that I think is the stumbling block. I'm not saying the Lumia 900 will be a flop, and I'm not saying it's a crap phone, but I think a snappier name would have helped their campaign to establish this as a mainstream phone.

[Vice]

AT&T know it's just a phone right? A thing you make phone calls on.

The way they talk they've bottled a cancer cure.

[Mohitster]

This is it! Time has Come!

[AbandonedTrolley]

Nokia can do the same with the Lumia brand. End of story. The Lumia brand has already gained considerable traction.

They certainly could get their brand identity back, I'm not denying that, but right now I think that it's certainly not happening over in the UK. The fact that WP as a mobile OS hasn't really taken off over here means that Nokia are almost flogging a dead horse with it. Maybe in a few years time, but right now I don't see anything changing any time soon.

[jakem1]

They certainly could get their brand identity back, I'm not denying that, but right now I think that it's certainly not happening over in the UK. The fact that WP as a mobile OS hasn't really taken off over here means that Nokia are almost flogging a dead horse with it. Maybe in a few years time, but right now I don't see anything changing any time soon.

Evidence?

[x-byte]

After switching to Limia 800 about a month ago, I really love it so far. WP is great. Hope Limia 900 gets people's attention. I can't see myself using any other OS at the moment.

[AbandonedTrolley]

Evidence?

Evidence needed for what I THINK? Sure I will tell you that ever since WP7 has been out I have seen two of my friends and colleagues with such a device. That enough evidence on what I have seen and think about the OS and brand?

Regarding me saying that the OS hasn't really taken off here in the UK

According to Gartner, 1.7 million smartphones using a Microsoft mobile OS were sold world wide in the second quarter of 2011, for a 1.6% market share.^[104] In the third quarter of 2011, Microsoft's world wide market share dropped slightly to 1.5%.^[105] In the fourth quarter however market share increased to 1.9%.^[106] However it should be noted that such reports include both Windows Phone and Windows Mobile marketshare under the same "Microsoft mobile OS" banner, and do not make the distinction of separating the marketshare values of the two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Phone_7 1.9% Market share after 9 months in my opinion is evidence of it having not taken off.

I wasn't spouting figures in my original post, I was saying what I think and have experienced.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I seen NO WP's around my Uni campus. Just a sea of iPhones...

This phone does look nicely built, I'm simply far too attached to Android to be taking risks with phone platforms however. Ordered my new phone, going with HTC One X.

[watchthisspace]

I really like the Windows Phone operating system. I like iOS too. Andriod, not so much. I think it looks like Windows XP of the Smartphone operating system's. But that's just me.

It's a bit sad that a lot of people here are out to watch Microsoft fail when they're only starting to gain some traction. Microsoft doesn't yet have the brand recognition like Apple to take over a market overnight. Obviously it will take time before the word is out that WP isn't crap and lots of people enjoy using it and becomes popular.

I remember the Zune being quite a nice MP3 player, but Microsoft's execution and marketing of the iPod touch rival meant it never had the chance to take off.

[AbandonedTrolley]

I really like the Windows Phone operating system. I like iOS too. Andriod, not so much. I think it looks like Windows XP of the Smartphone operating system's. But that's just me.

It's a bit sad that a lot of people here are out to watch Microsoft fail when they're only starting to gain some traction. Microsoft doesn't yet have the brand recognition like Apple to take over a market overnight. Obviously it will take time before the word is out that WP isn't crap and lots of people enjoy using it and becomes popular.

I remember the Zune being quite a nice MP3 player, but Microsoft's execution and marketing of the iPod touch rival meant it never had the chance to take off.

I agree, I'm not here to see MS fail, but I really honestly think they will do, or certainly won't break in to the top 2 OS within the next 2-3 years. There is just too much momentum behind the other two for them to get close I feel.

I loved the look of the Zune and was gutted when they didn't bring it to the UK. I did consider importing but then the radio function doesn't work over here so was buying half a device really.

[Gaffney]

Evidence needed for what I THINK? Sure I will tell you that ever since WP7 has been out I have seen two of my friends and colleagues with such a device. That enough evidence on what I have seen and think about the OS and brand?

Regarding me saying that the OS hasn't really taken off here in the UK

http://en.wikipedia....Windows_Phone_7 1.9% Market share after 9 months in my opinion is evidence of it having not taken off.

I wasn't spouting figures in my original post, I was saying what I think and have experienced.

It's now at 2.5% in the UK, that's just with the Lumia 800 which has taken 87% of the WP7 market. The Lumia 700 has probably taken a good chunk as well. The Lumia 900 is really the top range smartphone device that people will be after. That combined with Tango + Apollo, predictions show the marketshare might jump to 6% with 40 million devices being sold by the end of 2012.

[AbandonedTrolley]

It's now at 2.5% in the UK, that's just with the Lumia 800 which has taken 87% of the WP7 market. The Lumia 700 has probably taken a good chunk as well. The Lumia 900 is really the top range smartphone device that people will be after. That combined with Tango + Apollo, predictions show the marketshare might jump to 6% with 40 million devices being sold by the end of 2012.

Okay so they hope to increase by 3.5% in 12 months, say they manage to double that growth next year. that's still only looking at 13-14% market share by end of 2013? As I said, it's going to be a long time till they are serious competition to the top two.

[Noveed]

It's now at 2.5% in the UK, that's just with the Lumia 800 which has taken 87% of the WP7 market. The Lumia 700 has probably taken a good chunk as well. The Lumia 900 is really the top range smartphone device that people will be after. That combined with Tango + Apollo, predictions show the marketshare might jump to 6% with 40 million devices being sold by the end of 2012.

I have a Lumia 800 and fail to see how the 900 will be "Top Range".

Compared to its US Counterpart in the UK there is no NFC. It's just a bigger version of the Lumia 800 with minor improvements and a FFC. That's not what I would call Top range.

Having said that IMO the Design of the Lumia's is amazing. Beats any Android out there and iPhone. Just holding the Lumia 800 in your hands feels great and the size is perfect.

In respect to Apollo I hope they release a Lumia 8xx with same design/dimensions, FFC, NFC, Camera/Audio/Battery Improvements and larger screen resolution. I am not a big fan of bigger phones, previously having a HD7 I was over the moon when I was offered a Lumia 800 as an insurance replacement due to the HD7 being discontinued!

[Aletheia]

I don't know all the numbers, but I do know that in T-Mobile (U.S.), the number of WP7 has been picking up. 5 months ago, there was no one - really no one, knew about WP7 in T-Mobile when i was getting HTC Radar for my wife. Now, there is one dedicated sales person for WP7 - he talks about Lumia 710 & HTC Radar and their benefits. And he told me that WP7 has been selling well there.

[MorganX]

anyone else getting the feeling WP is gonna flop? Not saying it's a bad platform or anything (i like it), it just seems that they are wayyyyyyyy too late into the smart phone game.

Well I preordered. Lack of awareness is a major problem. Everyone I show my titan to is amazed that the responsiveness is greater than iOS and iPhone. They still think Windows Mobile and they think Android is actually more responsive until they try it. Everyone asks to see it due to the size and they are just amazed after thumbing through a few seconds.

If MS can build awareness they will easily win over new users, and a $99 Nokia as sexy as the Lumia 900 might do the trick. The only weak spot is I believe iTunes is still more intuitive and easy to use for novices than Zune :/. It would be great if you could hook up your Windows Phone to Xbox and sync and update and all. That would make it easier for these folks. Or, they can let the Mac Business unit design their next Media Player.

[MorganX]

Okay so they hope to increase by 3.5% in 12 months, say they manage to double that growth next year. that's still only looking at 13-14% market share by end of 2013? As I said, it's going to be a long time till they are serious competition to the top two.

If Windows Phone has 13-14% of the Market by the end of 2013 that will be a huge success and the writing will be on the wall. With more phones like Lumia and Titan, and more apps and xbox games plus Windows 8 interoperability, there's nothing but upside and MS has time. Especially if we're only talking a couple years.

[Noveed]

I don't know all the numbers, but I do know that in T-Mobile (U.S.), the number of WP7 has been picking up. 5 months ago, there was no one - really no one, knew about WP7 in T-Mobile when i was getting HTC Radar for my wife. Now, there is one dedicated sales person for WP7 - he talks about Lumia 710 & HTC Radar and their benefits. And he told me that WP7 has been selling well there.

Since the Lumia Launch in the UK Microsoft have been pushing WP7 a lot. The amount of visits that Nokia and the Windows Phone team do to Sales Call Centres has increased over the last few months. The incentives people getting for selling Lumias are pretty sweet too.

Momentum is building for WP I just hope other manufacturers pull a finger out because Nokia will be quite far ahead in the WP scene leaving others trailing. Samsung and HTC need to up their game.

Apollo Wishlist...

HTC One X WP Variant

SGS 3 WP Variant

As for Nokia, just keep doing what they are doing. But on a personal note I would love to see another Lumia 8xx with features I mentioned in my previous post and with updated specs/requirements for Apollo.