Classic Shell Now Works in Windows 8 CP

[rvdv]

I also really like Classic Shell and am very happy it exists. I also tried start8, but that's just 'the start-screen inside a windows on the place my start-menu should be' if you ask me.

So, I'm glad this program exists, even though it may or may not be as nice-looking as Windows7's start menu. It does work and it works well.

I really can't understand why MS would do away with the start menu at this time. Granted, it has been around for quite some time and it might be time for something else, something new, but Metro's start screen isn't it for me.

[techguy77]

That's exactly my point. Microsoft is going to stick to their guns with Windows 9. A few (yet, highly vocal) power users aren't going to change their minds.

We will see what Microsoft has to say when Windows 8 ends up as Windows Vista.

[Dot Matrix]

We will see what Microsoft has to say when Windows 8 ends up as Windows Vista.

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. When Vista "failed" did Microsoft dig out the old XP code and use it for Windows 7? No. The Start Button/Me nu is dead.

Also, they're not going to abandon the developers who released Metro apps for Windows 8. That would be a foolish move.

[Fraud OS 11]

Yes I believe Microsoft usually doesn't bring back things they removed, which is the unfortunate part. But they have brought back some things like the Up button in Explorer, status bar size of selected files in Explorer, the Internet Games etc. But of course that doesn't mean we can't bring back certain things. :D In fact, the release of Classic Shell for Windows 8 may keep many users on the desktop after the glimpse of Metro at startup. ;) So people will get a choice to use what they want, not be forced into Metro. Mission accomplished.

[htcz]

Yes I believe Microsoft usually doesn't bring back things they removed, which is the unfortunate part. But they have brought back some things like the Up button in Explorer, status bar size of selected files in Explorer, the Internet Games etc. But of course that doesn't mean we can't bring back certain things. :D In fact, the release of Classic Shell for Windows 8 may keep many users on the desktop after the glimpse of Metro at startup. ;) So people will get a choice to use what they want, not be forced into Metro. Mission accomplished.

I read your blog and although I congrads you on Classic Shell, you, my friend, have no idea what you are talking about and know near nothing.

As of 2012, you can most definitely put Windows XP on any new system as long as you have retail licenses, which are transferable from your old machines to new ones. Device drivers are not an issue yet, everyone except Microsoft is supporting Windows XP and will for a long time I think, well past April 2014. Contrary to the popular myth that XP won't run as well on new machines, it does and of course has superior usability, so that's what matters more.

Anyone who reads that and knows about admining a network, would literally laugh out loud.

[2III7]

to all the classic shell/start button lovers :D is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

[Fraud OS 11]

Anyone who reads that and knows about admining a network, would literally laugh out loud.

Most of the Windows Vista networking technologies article was written by me so yes I would know a little bit at least about networking ;). But remember, different things matter to different people. To certain people like me, usability matters the most. Even which OS's usability is better is always subjective, I am making my opinion known on the blog. Most people who are upgrading to Vista/7 thinking newer must be better and 10-year old means trash are the ones who are clueless really. As long as you are making an informed decision, don't go calling out others ignorant just because you don't agree with their views.

[Fraud OS 11]

to all the classic shell/start button lovers :D is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

But who said you have to use the mouse only? Classic Shell supports typing the name of the app too if you prefer using the keyboard. It's the best of the 9x and Vista/7 style menus. Type to search feature of Vista/7 menu and the discoverability of new/unknown shortcuts whose name you don't know or forgot to type and full screen utilization of the 9x style. It doesn't expect users to use the menu only in a certain way, gives full freedom of customization.

[BajiRav]

But who said you have to use the mouse only? Classic Shell supports typing the name of the app too if you prefer using the keyboard. It's the best of the 9x and Vista/7 style menus. Type to search feature of Vista/7 menu and the discoverability of new/unknown shortcuts whose name you don't know or forgot to type and full screen utilization of the 9x style. It doesn't expect users to use the menu only in a certain way, gives full freedom of customization.

that looks much better than the ugly 9x thing in op. Hopefully people will get over their metro hate now.

[majortom1981]

to all the classic shell/start button lovers :D is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app? in my experience it's 1.5 to 2x faster to use the start button instead of point-and-click to start an app.

yes, freedom of choice is good... but using inferior UXD elements which degrade your workflow on a new and improved OS isn't.

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

[AndyMutz]

to all the classic shell/start button lovers :D is it really harder to press the start button and type in (part of) the apps name and press enter than to use your mouse and search through the all programs menu to start an app?

to me it is, as i often like to use an operating system with just a mouse.

classic shell is a must for me on windows 7 and even more so on windows 8.

-andy-

[Arceles]

If I have to move to windows 8, this is the first thing that will be installed right after a clean install, until then I will stick to windows 7.

[briangw]

Can you explain how the expanding Programs menu is a usability nightmare? It better utilizes screen estate in fact instead of cramping it into a tiny area with a scrollbar. The Start screen is also trying to make it go "full screen" for this reason. The one problem with flyout menus in Windows 9x was that if the mouse moved a little bit outside the menu it would close. But our menu being customizable, you can simply set the "Menu Delay" setting to a larger value like 10000 and it will never close with the mouse just moving, it will only open folders and close with a mouse click.

I've noticed that search finds things faster than the old way, so for me, it's not as much a usability nightmare than the cascading menus from before. But then again, I've been moving more towards using the keyboard and the shortcuts compared to years ago. Also, I tested Win 7 search in the start menu compared to 8 and 8 finds the apps/programs quicker.

[jakem1]

Can you explain how the expanding Programs menu is a usability nightmare? It better utilizes screen estate in fact instead of cramping it into a tiny area with a scrollbar. The Start screen is also trying to make it go "full screen" for this reason. The one problem with flyout menus in Windows 9x was that if the mouse moved a little bit outside the menu it would close. But our menu being customizable, you can simply set the "Menu Delay" setting to a larger value like 10000 and it will never close with the mouse just moving, it will only open folders and close with a mouse click.

The fact that users have to move their mouses all over the screen, searching through folders, clicking here and there, aiming for tiny targets was always a bad idea. The problem you described is just one of the issues with the design but your solution forces the user to spend twice as much time clicking so it's not much of a solution.

The Vista/7 replacement is not any better because it involves clicking down through level after level within a tightly confined space. This is the same reason that Start Menu search is less than ideal in Vista/7 - there's just not enough room on the Start Menu to properly view and manage search results.

Flyout menus for things like control panel may have just barely worked in XP and earlier but there are far too many control panel items these days for that. Searching through a long list of icons for a rarely-used control panel item is not fun.

MS killed the flyout menus because they were a bad idea, not because they had nothing better to do. The one thing I hate most about XP is the all programs menu and I don't see any reason to bring it back. That's just me though and good luck to you if you want to continue with the old way of doing things.

[Dot Matrix]

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

Yes. Otherwise, they are pinned to the taskbar.

[2III7]

You honestly remember the names of all the programs you have installed? At work i have a ton of programs installed in my machine and do not remember all the names. So its kinda hard to search for something you do not remember the name of.

yes. seems like you have a memory problem if you can't remember the names of programs on your computer. and you have the "all apps" button for that on the start screen

[Fraud OS 11]

@jakem1, it looks like you have trashed the 9x style flyout menu, Vista style mouse way of clicking and scrolling to launch and Vista/7 style search. Then why do you use Windows at all? :p What style do you prefer of launching then? Do you mean type to launch style with full screen utilization because Classic Shell can do that too. The search box results can take up the entire screen in multiple columns or they can scroll in a single narrow column.

[The_Decimator]

EDIT: nvm.

[McKay]

The issue with the classic shell start menu is that once you've got a few things installed, it swamps the screen completely. To find a single app you have to click on a menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu to get a sub-menu.

If I have to have a startmenu swamping my screen, I'll have one that was designed from the ground up to do it right. The beauty of this baby is that if I know what I'm looking for I can simply start typing and it'll appear infront of me. If I have several things come up, I can filter between music, movies, pictures or apps on the fly.

[jakem1]

@jakem1, it looks like you have trashed the 9x style flyout menu, Vista style mouse way of clicking and scrolling to launch and Vista/7 style search. Then why do you use Windows at all? :p What style do you prefer of launching then? Do you mean type to launch style with full screen utilization because Classic Shell can do that too. The search box results can take up the entire screen in multiple columns or they can scroll in a single narrow column.

In XP/Vista I would pin applications to the Start Menu and the Quick launch menu. In Windows 7 I pin apps to the Start Menu and the Taskbar. I can continue to do this in Windows 8. Pinning works fine for 99% of my daily use. On the odd occasion that I have to use an app that I haven't pinned I reluctantly use the all programs menu in XP and search in Vista/7.

Like McKay above, I would prefer to use the Start screen in Windows 8 than your fullscreen version of the Start menu. I don't see the point of running 3rd-party code when a suitable 1st-party version exists.

[wahoospa]

I love it!

[Fraud OS 11]

Interesting. I always take criticism with an open mind as in there's an opportunity for an improvement to Classic Shell.

@McKay, so you are saying that you prefer the search results to be categorized - how? by just a title/heading like the Vista/7 menu categorizes results or keep them separate screens like Windows 8 does? Many people I heard complaining about the Start screen want exactly the opposite and found the separate screens - Apps, Settings and Files to be an additional unnecessary step towards launching what you searched for quickly as you have to click or navigate to Apps, Settings or Files to launch a results from that section on the Start screen.

@jake1, the reason the third party code was written was because the first party code doesn't do - context menus - it offers a very limited set of context menu actions and these actions (Run as administrator, Run as different user, Open file location etc), are located at the bottom of the Start screen - away from the tile which means more movement for mouse users, or more keystrokes navigating to the bottom for keyboard users. The Start screen doesn't allow many advanced things like launching multiple items simultaneously without closing the menu or dragging and dropping any folder into the menu to turn it into an expandable folder. In the Classic Shell menu, you can hold down Shift and launch as many items as you want. You can operate keyboard shortcuts directly like F2 to Rename, Del, Alt+Enter for Properties. With the list style view of presentation, even for full screen, you can accomodate far more items with multiple columned menu than full screen huge tiles.

[McKay]

Interesting. I always take criticism with an open mind as in there's an opportunity for an improvement to Classic Shell.

@McKay, so you are saying that you prefer the search results to be categorized - how? by just a title/heading like the Vista/7 menu categorizes results or keep them separate screens like Windows 8 does? Many people I heard complaining about the Start screen want exactly the opposite and found the separate screens - Apps, Settings and Files to be an additional unnecessary step towards launching what you searched for quickly as you have to click or navigate to Apps, Settings or Files to launch a results from that section on the Start screen.

I prefer categories, sometimes when looking for an app in Windows Vista/7 I'd type in a word from the title, and dozens of things would pop up, a song with the same title, perhaps a movie or photograph, and then dozens of emails in which I might have mentioned the word. Especially when I'm trying to search for a setting or how to switch something off, in 8 I can manually click "Setting" in the search filters to the right.

I'm not saying that the categories is the deal-breaker, I'm saying that the classic shell start menu will inevitably swamp your screen, it's just how it's designed. With Windows 8, it was designed with that in mind from the beginning, combining the searching power of Windows 7, with the ability to display that many items and the filter makes it far superior for me.

[Fraud OS 11]

@McKay, just to be clear, you have read on the previous page that Classic Shell Start Menu also has a filter, right? Except that it presents unified results from programs and settings which is really an advantage IMO. No tabbing required, search, press Up/Down if required, press Enter. Plus another thing it does that Microsoft's methods don't do is partial word matches/searches. So you can search for 'rar' and see 'WinRAR'. But for me, the ultimate feature is customization of adding your own command, item or expandable folder. For example, to the Shutdown menu, I can add "Shutdown.exe /g" command which restarts and restores all running apps automatically.

[George P Global Moderator]

For those not ready to let go of the start menu apps like these are fine, if that's what you want go for it. The thing people have to remember though is that at some point, maybe not fully in Windows 9 but soon after, I honestly expect the desktop, as it is now in Windows 8, to be changed next.

Hate it or love it the whole UI will be changed with time, the start menu was just the first thing to go. Really, with Win7 and the superbar letting me pin the apps I use each day I very rarely use the start menu at all, and when I do it's always to open one of the other apps I have pinned to it (which in Windows 8 will just be pinned to the start screen so it's the same).