Free development tools to be Metro-only

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Wow. I wasn't aware of this. Looks like, going forward, $500 is the entry barrier to writing Desktop apps on the Windows platform, while only Metro developers still have access to free developer tools unless you stick with an older version... And of course, Windows 8 in general doesn't allow for side-loading of Metro-style apps. Meaning, developers will have to go through MS's approval process and will probably have to pay, too.

-> No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8

Redmond has decided not only that Visual Studio Express users should have the ability to develop Metro-style applications: they should have no other choice.

[George P Global Moderator]

Wow. I wasn't aware of this. Looks like, going forward, $500 is the entry barrier to writing Desktop apps on the Windows platform, while only Metro developers still have access to free developer tools unless you stick with an older version... And of course, Windows 8 in general doesn't allow for side-loading of Metro-style apps. Meaning, developers will have to go through MS's approval process and will probably have to pay, too.

-> No-cost desktop software development is dead on Windows 8

Win8 does have side loading, for business, they can side-load their apps if they want.

[articuno1au]

Thus the generally in that statement.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Win8 does have side loading, for business, they can side-load their apps if they want.

I know. In general, it doesn't allow for side-loading though.

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

Microsoft have lost the plot with this one. I don't understand why they'd want to force people away from developing on their platform :/

[firey]

Pretty bad when you have to Sideload apps on a desktop computer :/

[Max Norris]

I don't understand why they'd want to force people away from developing on their platform :/

A little puzzled with this decision as well. But at least the compilers themselves have always been free (just need a different editor/IDE/whatever), and there's still the 2010 editions of Express which are also still available. Or just use a different toolset entirely of course, there's other decent ones out there aside from Microsoft's.. and of course this only applies to desktop apps. (Not me though, I love VS2010 Pro.. very likely to upgrade once it's available.)

[Vice]

Microsoft have lost the plot with this one. I don't understand why they'd want to force people away from developing on their platform :/

They have a monopoly on the market they know developers will pay whatever is necessary to get their applications on the latest version of windows. Sucks.

[~Johnny]

Eurgh. Microsoft explicitly stated they'll be keeping the FREE Visual Studio 2010 Express Editions up and available for the purposes of desktop development - and they work perfectly well on Windows 8.

[Subhadip]

I don't think they want people to pay, they just want to push them into developing for Metro. Pretty poor decision either way though.

[Noir Angel]

Microsoft really are doing their utmost to force everyone into their crapware Metro ecosystem. I guess it's good that Windows 7 and 8 are so similar in architectural respects, as I can see most developers that want to use the free tools just coding in 7 and testing in 8

[Ambroos]

I predict bad things for Microsoft. In Europe Apple doesn't have the huge market share it has in the US yet, but with the introduction of Windows 8 that could rapidly change. Even my mom who has no idea what version of Windows she's running knows that Vista is bad. Windows 8 will become a very dangerous word very quickly if you ask me. People will try it, people won't like it, people will avoid it. If Microsoft keeps it up for too long then and doesn't fix things, people will start buying Apple software, and the nerdier folk amongst us might switch to Linux.

Microsoft is doing something quite risky here, and I don't think it's a good idea. They have tried to push this sort of risky, sub-optimal stuff before and they failed horribly at it, every single time.

[Japlabot]

This sounds like it will be the death of Windows if Microsoft are stupid enough to follow through on this. Windows success has been based on developers being able to get their products to market on a platform which is easiest to get their products to their customers. If there are going to be barriers, the standard advice from the developer to their customer will be 'stay away from Windows 8' (as was the standard advice to stay away from Windows ME or Windows Vista). If there is no sign that Microsoft are going to come around on that, developers will start thinking about jumping ship than to stay on a Windows 7 platform which is not going to be around forever.

If developers come to the conclusion that they are going to be forced to rewrite their software to be compatible with Metro interface and Windows RT (most Windows 8 tablets) they might as well say, well we might as well rewrite it for a more established modern platform (iOS and Android) not Windows 8, or HTML (cover all platforms - but most worrying for Microsoft, removes the Windows lock-in) or ironically if they need a supported platform that any customer can easily obtain (as eventually Windows 7 will stop being sold) and don't want to completely rewrite their software, WINE on Linux is offering more support for established Windows applications than Microsoft is offering right now. (Most likely option for specialised applications rather than consumer applications as their customers buy computers specifically to run their APP, not buy the APP because it runs on their computer)

[Noir Angel]

I predict bad things for Microsoft. In Europe Apple doesn't have the huge market share it has in the US yet, but with the introduction of Windows 8 that could rapidly change. Even my mom who has no idea what version of Windows she's running knows that Vista is bad. Windows 8 will become a very dangerous word very quickly if you ask me. People will try it, people won't like it, people will avoid it. If Microsoft keeps it up for too long then and doesn't fix things, people will start buying Apple software, and the nerdier folk amongst us might switch to Linux.

Microsoft is doing something quite risky here, and I don't think it's a good idea. They have tried to push this sort of risky, sub-optimal stuff before and they failed horribly at it, every single time.

I've been a loyal user of Windows for years and I agree. I'm not going to switch to Linux until it becomes as viable for my games as Windows, but with the current design trends I'm seeing there's simply no way I'm going to go from 7 to 8 when 8 is released.

[~Johnny]

...

There's still a wholly supported, explicitly recommended, functional, and free way to develop desktop apps on and for Windows 8 - VS 2010 Express.

--

And guys - please try to stay on topic. If you want to moan about Windows 8 in general, there are plenty of other more relevant topics to do that in.

[Miuku.]

I seriously doubt it's correct or maybe someone on the food chain has misunderstood.

It would be monumentally stupid to do it.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I seriously doubt it's correct or maybe someone on the food chain has misunderstood.

It would be monumentally stupid to do it.

There isn't much room for interpretation:

Visual Studio 11 Express for Windows 8 provides tools for Metro style app development. To create desktop apps, you need to use Visual Studio 11 Professional, or higher. In addition, Visual Studio 2010 Express products - Visual Basic 2010 Express, Visual C++ 2010 Express, and Visual C# 2010 Express - will remain available for free download.

[http://www.microsoft...oducts/express]

Either stick with an older version or pay up.

[Calum Veteran]

There's still a wholly supported, explicitly recommended, functional, and free way to develop desktop apps on and for Windows 8 - VS 2010 Express.

[. . .]

Yeah, unless Microsoft prevent that version from being able to be installed and used on Windows 8, I don't think this is as bad as some people are making out. It appears that it's only the newest version of Visual Studio Express that is being restricted in this way; some of the previous versions can still be used to develop desktop apps on Windows 8.

Considering Microsoft are trying to get people to adopt WinRT over desktop development, this makes sense. I'm not suggesting I'm a fan of Windows 8, but I certainly understand why they're doing this, and it doesn't appear as if it will limit people much (due to them being able to use Visual Studio 2010 Express). Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong (e.g. if it's likely Microsoft will ensure Visual Studio Express 2010 is no longer available to download or install; if that's the case, I may take back these comments of mine).

[Noir Angel]

Yeah, unless Microsoft prevent that version from being able to be installed and used on Windows 8, I don't think this is as bad as some people are making out. It appears that it's only the newest version of Visual Studio Express that is being restricted in this way; some of the previous versions can still be used to develop desktop apps on Windows 8.

Considering Microsoft are trying to get people to adopt WinRT over desktop development, this makes sense. I'm not suggesting I'm a fan of Windows 8, but I certainly understand why they're doing this, and it doesn't appear as if it will limit people much (due to them being able to use Visual Studio 2010 Express). Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But eventually the API's in older versions of visual studio become deprecated and stop receiving support. If developers want to continue putting the newest functionality into their software eventually they will be forced to either stump up the cash or only develop Metro apps.

[n_K]

Tbf apple did this too but no-one seemed to make a fuss about it?

Old versions of xcode were free, and based off GCC so they HAD to be free.

The version for lion onwards is ?5 from the app store, which is an utter joke, although you get it free if you purchase lion, that's when they started using LLVM instead of GCC.

It was around about that time I noticed how much memory leaking their libraries did so I gave up developing for ipod anyway.

[Calum Veteran]

But eventually the API's in older versions of visual studio become deprecated and stop receiving support. If developers want to continue putting the newest functionality into their software eventually they will be forced to either stump up the cash or only develop Metro apps.

That "eventually" is in a few years or more, though, isn't it (i.e. after Windows 9 has been released, or even Windows 10)? :) If Microsoft are focussing on WinRT, isn't it likely that they wouldn't provide much new functionality for desktop app development even if they didn't limit Visual Studio 11 Express in this way?

[Noir Angel]

That "eventually" is in a few years or more, though, isn't it (i.e. after Windows 9 has been released, or even Windows 10)? :) If Microsoft are focussing on WinRT, isn't it likely that they wouldn't provide much new functionality for desktop app development even if they didn't limit Visual Studio 11 Express in this way?

No, it's a matter of whenever Microsoft feel they can stop supporting the runtimes. Which going on their previous could be anything from a year to a decade.

One way or another, it's pretty clear they ARE trying to force everyone into both using and developing with Metro only.

[Dot Matrix]

Well, you have to ask yourselves, who really still develops for the Windows desktop? And I mean, sits down and plans an app with Windows 7 front and center.

Microsoft

Mozilla

Google

The guy behind Paint.Net

Everything else is pretty much "crap apps" that were designed for one system, and ported to Windows. Desktop development of the Windows desktop is quite stagnant. But even with Windows 8, you will still have the apps listed above from those respective companies. All those other little crap apps that people use can easily be metro-fied.

[Calum Veteran]

No, it's a matter of whenever Microsoft feel they can stop supporting the runtimes. Which going on their previous could be anything from a year to a decade.

One way or another, it's pretty clear they ARE trying to force everyone into both using and developing with Metro only.

Oh, I see. I was thinking about how great they've been at supporting Windows XP and other such products for many years, and I thought that might mean they always support functionality for developers for many years.

[Noir Angel]

Given the way they're going with Windows 8 at the moment, you evidently have a lot more trust in them than I do. Part of what made 7 great was that they listened to customer feedback. Now, they're completely being ignored.