Free development tools to be Metro-only

[PGHammer]

No big deal. I have Visual Studio 11 for Windows 8, Visual Studio 2010 for Windows Phone, Visual C# 2010 Express, and Visual C++ 2010 Express all installed on Windows 8.

Since when was Visual Studio 2010 inadequate?

In any case, 16 bit apps are still supported in Windows 8... they won't be dropping support for desktop apps for a long time.

You aren't the only one asking that.

I have VS 2010 Express and VS 11 (Ultimate beta) both installed in the Consumer Preview (they co-exist just fine, as I've pointed out), and I've compared their documentation.

What differences there are between the two entirely involve compiler support.

2010 Express supports three compilers (Visual C++, Visual C#, and Visual BASIC); VS 11 Ultimate supports eight.

In terms of common-compiler support, there is literally zero difference between the two as far as feature support in terms of Win32.

XBOX360 development? That is in the XNA Game Studio - which is now *standard* with VS 2010 Express. Same applies to Windows Phone development.

Is the griping about IDE differences - or compiler-support differences? VS 2010 Express has a componentized approach to compilers - VS 11 Express doesn't have it's compiler components yet (for the understandable reason that the compilers themselves are still being developed) - how long did it take for the compiler components to be ready for VS 2010 Express? VS 11 Ultimate (like VS 2010 Ultimate) includes all the compilers; however, even given high-bandwidth cable or FTTP, VS 2010 *or* VS 11 Ultimate remains a big pig of a download - bare-minimus VS 11 Ultimate is over 1 GB - compressed. *Oink*! (The released product ships on DVD for a reason.)

Need to learn SQL? Microsoft *still* has you covered with SQL Server Express - it's just not available from the same portal as the rest of the Express family of tools. (Instead, it's available form the SQL Server portal - http://www.microsoft.com/sqlserver .)

[xWhiplash]

You guys need to understand what people are actually complaining about. Yes the 2010 editions will still be available. But, is that edition the LAST free visual studio for DESKTOP development? If so, will Microsoft support the download of Visual Studio 2010 Express for another 5 years?

I do not care if metro is a complete hit. I firmly believe that there will always be a market for pure desktop applications. I have the 2010 Professional version, but I understand why people are complaining. If 2010 is the last free visual studio for desktop development, how long will they have download links for it?

[Max Norris]

If 2010 is the last free visual studio for desktop development, how long will they have download links for it?

Probably for quite some time; they still have 2008 Express available on their main site. Shoot, you can still even download the service packs for Visual Studio 6, which was from 1998 if you're into antiques.

[PGHammer]

You guys need to understand what people are actually complaining about. Yes the 2010 editions will still be available. But, is that edition the LAST free visual studio for DESKTOP development? If so, will Microsoft support the download of Visual Studio 2010 Express for another 5 years?

I do not care if metro is a complete hit. I firmly believe that there will always be a market for pure desktop applications. I have the 2010 Professional version, but I understand why people are complaining. If 2010 is the last free visual studio for desktop development, how long will they have download links for it?

The question still begs asking (and, in fact, I asked it earlier) - what has been added in terms of desktop-application development (Win32 in particular) that is unique to the paid versions of VS 2010 *or* VS 11 in terms of C++, C#, or VB?

It's not Windows Phone or gaming - both the Windows Phone SDK and XNA Game Studio are now standard fare with VS 2010 Express. (In fact, both were added within the past year.)

Is it support for specific compilers (such as F#)? I haven't heard of anyone writing a straight Win32 F# application - g++, yes; but not F#.

Is there yet any idea how long the wait will be until Visual Studio 11 (the paid versions) actually ship?

Have any of those whinging about VS 11 Express taken the (minimal) time and effort to take a hard look at VS 11 Ultimate and see if it actually suits their needs *better* than VS 2010 Express (let alone VS 2010 Professional)? (That is, after all, another major reason why Microsoft makes beta versions of their paid developer tools freely available - I am evaluating VS 11 Ultimate for precisely this purpose; to see if it suits my own development needs better than the 2010 Express/11/Express tag-team.)

[Andre S. Veteran]

The question still begs asking (and, in fact, I asked it earlier) - what has been added in terms of desktop-application development (Win32 in particular) that is unique to the paid versions of VS 2010 *or* VS 11 in terms of C++, C#, or VB?

New language features in all these languages, very useful ones at that (async, futures, etc). Code written for C# 5 won't compile in VS 2010. Ability to target .NET 4.5, WPF 4.5, etc. General IDE improvements in performance, responsivity, reliability. Tons of minor bug fixes, as with any major software update.

The world will move on to VS11, as it has with any major release of Visual Studio. VS2010 users will be left behind.

[PGHammer]

New language features in all these languages, very useful ones at that (async, futures, etc). Code written for C# 5 won't compile in VS 2010. Ability to target .NET 4.5, WPF 4.5, etc. General IDE improvements in performance, responsivity, reliability. Tons of minor bug fixes, as with any major software update.

The world will move on to VS11, as it has with any major release of Visual Studio. VS2010 users will be left behind.

And if those features are more useful to you, dig up the money and buy VS 11 Professional (or better) - meanwhile, download the beta of VS 11 Ultimate and take it for a spin to confirm if those features are indeed worth it.

I'm not saying that VS 11 is the be-all/end-all - I've barely scratched the surface on what VS 11's new features can do in terms of desktop applications (most of that in terms of better and faster application of old features).

Still, because I do development *at all*, it makes all the sense in the world to evaluate better tools for my toolbox - and especially when I can do so for free.

The transition from VS 2010 to VS 11 (even for paid customers) is not without its bumps and bruises - take a look at the TechNet forums that cover VS for evidence of that. (Get your Nomex suits out - things can get rather heated.)

Changes in Visual Studio are like changes in Microsoft Office - some good, some bad, but all useful for some folks.

So I'd like those that are complaining about being *left behind* to do themselves a favor and actually TRY VS 11 Ultimate for themselves - they may not even like it.