Pentium 4 and Windows 8 compatibility

[Miuku.]

Tried installing ubuntu on a computer at work recently, it crashed on startup with a kernel panic because of the CPU. and while it was old, it wasn't that old, newer than this P4 I believe at the very least.

The only thing that could have crashed it would have been the requirement of the "i686 instruction set" and that has there since Pentium Pro.

[2III7]

running w8 on celeron 430 1.8ghz with no problems. has to something wrong with your configuration.

[Detection]

I have an old P4 rig with SSE2 instructions, just installing 7 on it atm, I`ll run AIDA64 and see what its got

P4 Northwood - 2.6GHz - (Instruction Set x86, MMX, SSE, SSE2)

[Brandon Live Veteran]

According to all the information that I have seen, all Pentium 4 CPU's support SSE2

I think the number of CPUs that support SSE2 but not NX is very small. The requirements are NX+PAE+SSE2. From what I understand, everything that supports NX also supports SSE2.

The whitepaper someone linked to earlier in the thread explains all this in detail.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

The only thing that could have crashed it would have been the requirement of the "i686 instruction set" and that has there since Pentium Pro.

From what I recall, some Linux distros are compiled with SSE2 instructions and others are not.

[rfirth]

running w8 on celeron 430 1.8ghz with no problems. has to something wrong with your configuration.

You processor is at least 5 years newer than OP's. And it supports NX. The processor that this thread is about does not support NX.

http://ark.intel.com/products/29735/Intel-Celeron-Processor-430-(512K-Cache-1_80-GHz-800-MHz-FSB

[HawkMan]

The only thing that could have crashed it would have been the requirement of the "i686 instruction set" and that has there since Pentium Pro.

Hate to break you, but your facts don't match up with real world facts. Maybe I'll hook it up to the screen and try to boot the stick again and photo the screen.

[Noir Angel]

I think the number of CPUs that support SSE2 but not NX is very small. The requirements are NX+PAE+SSE2. From what I understand, everything that supports NX also supports SSE2.

The whitepaper someone linked to earlier in the thread explains all this in detail.

Not really true. NX as we currently know it only made it's way into the Pentium 4 range from later iterations of Prescott cores and onwards, which means that all of the Williamette, Northwood, and first iterations of Pentium 4-M, Pentium 4 Mobile, and Gallatin (Pentium 4 Extreme edition) processors have SSE2 but no hardware support for NX, which is well over half of the Pentium 4 range. More specifically the Socket 775 or 5xJ and 5x9J series were the first CPU's to support hardware NX)

[Skyfrog]

All Pentium 4 processors support SSE2.

[nominak]

Not really true. NX as we currently know it only made it's way into the Pentium 4 range from later iterations of Prescott cores and onwards, which means that all of the Williamette, Northwood, and first iterations of Pentium 4-M, Pentium 4 Mobile, and Gallatin (Pentium 4 Extreme edition) processors have SSE2 but no hardware support for NX, which is well over half of the Pentium 4 range. More specifically the Socket 775 or 5xJ and 5x9J series were the first CPU's to support hardware NX)

You're arguing with the wrong person. I believe Brandon works for Microsoft. I think he'd know what's up more than you would.

[Miuku.]

You're arguing with the wrong person. I believe Brandon works for Microsoft. I think he'd know what's up more than you would.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4 Javik is right, though.

[rfirth]

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_4 Javik is right, though.

Well, not necessarily. I mean, yes, Javik is right. But so is Brandon Live.

I think the number of CPUs that support SSE2 but not NX is very small. The requirements are NX+PAE+SSE2. From what I understand, everything that supports NX also supports SSE2.

The whitepaper someone linked to earlier in the thread explains all this in detail.

Everything that supports NX also supports SSE2. True.

The number of CPUs that support SSE2 but not NX is very small. True-ish? The number of CPUs that were manufactured that support SSE2 but not NX may be large, but how many of those are still in use today, 10 years later? All modern CPUs support SSE2 and NX. The number of CPUs that support SSE2 but not NX are a small percentage.

[nominak]

Edit. What rfirth said.

[wongogue]

Download the ISO from the page, burn it to a DVD/make a bootable USB drive. Then it should work.

[statm1]

Download the ISO from the page, burn it to a DVD/make a bootable USB drive. Then it should work.

Abhinav, that does not always work. If your CPU does not support NX then it won't work no matter what..

[grayscale]

^But it won't hurt to try, and be done with it. If it works, yay, if not, then he'll move on. It will take less than an hour (and you can still have a snack in between :D )

[Noir Angel]

You're arguing with the wrong person. I believe Brandon works for Microsoft. I think he'd know what's up more than you would.

Sorry, but arguments to authority only work when the authority is right. The authority isn't right, I am. Google it and see for yourself.

Everything that supports NX also supports SSE2. True.

Well technically that is true if you count Segment level NX which has been included in Intel CPU's since the 80286. However neither old nor modern versions of Windows ever had support for segment based NX. NX as we see it today is known as the "flat memory model" and this is the only form of NX that all modern operating systems support, and that is the version that I was referring to. In terms of any form of useful functionality software NX has only been available since Windows XP SP2 and hardware based NX has only been available in a usable form since the Pentium 4 models I already mentioned, and AMD Athlon 64 CPU's. Given how far back Segment based NX goes there's a 0% chance the Windows 8 installer can be referencing it, as even absolutely ancient CPU's supported it. That therefore means that Brandon is referring to the more modern form of NX and as such the information he has provided is verifiably false.

As for how many are still in use... I'd wager it's a lot more than you think. The Northwood range of Pentium 4 processors in particular were extremely popular and sold strongly.

[mikee286]

wow 5 pages already.

Ok to get a few things straight the rig I am talking about isn't my main every day rig it is my dads old one it is just now for experimenting purposes and it does run windows 7 quite well with all the bells and whistles. I am trying this simply because I am bored and now have this computer to screw around with rather than doing things in a VM. I am going to try burning it to a dvd when I get some and I do think it will work.

If it still fails I think would think ms needs to be a little more specific for their requirements rather than generalizing saying they will be no higher than windows 7.

In the long haul the p4 rig will likely be turned into a file server or something so I can retire my old athlon xp from 2002 as my file server being that it is from 2001 and the police basically destroyed it

[Mando]

fx5500 - you mean NVIDIA FX 5500? Like that really old thing that is older than history itself? Is that thing even supported on Windows 7?

yep Nividia drivers still support FX GPUs.....wtf u smoking the Fx5500 is approx 8-10years old max years old.....hardly older than "history itself" seeesh Riva tnt16 anyone?

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Well technically that is true if you count Segment level NX which has been included in Intel CPU's since the 80286. However neither old nor modern versions of Windows ever had support for segment based NX. NX as we see it today is known as the "flat memory model" and this is the only form of NX that all modern operating systems support, and that is the version that I was referring to. In terms of any form of useful functionality software NX has only been available since Windows XP SP2 and hardware based NX has only been available in a usable form since the Pentium 4 models I already mentioned, and AMD Athlon 64 CPU's. Given how far back Segment based NX goes there's a 0% chance the Windows 8 installer can be referencing it, as even absolutely ancient CPU's supported it. That therefore means that Brandon is referring to the more modern form of NX and as such the information he has provided is verifiably false.

I think you misread what I wrote. I said that as far as I am aware, all x86 CPUs which support NX also support SSE2. You haven't provided any evidence that this is not correct. The inverse is not true, as I also said. The early P4s supported SSE2 but not NX. These are now quite old and the number of these which someone would want to upgrade to Win8 is incredibly small.

[Noir Angel]

I think you misread what I wrote. I said that as far as I am aware, all x86 CPUs which support NX also support SSE2. You haven't provided any evidence that this is not correct. The inverse is not true, as I also said. The early P4s supported SSE2 but not NX. These are now quite old and the number of these which someone would want to upgrade to Win8 is incredibly small.

Evidence on this forum suggests, however that it's not zero. This is the second or third time that I have seen this question asked. It's a limitation people are running into. And your assertion that it had anything to do with SSE2 was simply false. SSE2 and NX don't require each other to function, and pretty much any CPU fast enough to run Windows 8 supports SSE2. People who get this error are almost certainly getting it due to their lack of NX support, not their lack of SSE2 support.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Evidence on this forum suggests, however that it's not zero. This is the second or third time that I have seen this question asked. It's a limitation people are running into. And your assertion that it had anything to do with SSE2 was simply false. SSE2 and NX don't require each other to function, and pretty much any CPU fast enough to run Windows 8 supports SSE2. People who get this error are almost certainly getting it due to their lack of NX support, not their lack of SSE2 support.

What evidence?

You're putting words in my mouth. All three are required. PAE, NX, and SSE2. If PAE and NX are disabled in the BIOS, Windows will actually force them on at start-up. Anything which supports NX also supports PAE and SSE2. So it's easiest to ask if the CPU supports NX. If it does, it should work.

NX is crucial for security. SSE2 is needed because code in the OS and apps made in the last couple of years use SSE2 instructions. Without it, the system will crash.

[Noir Angel]

What evidence?

You're putting words in my mouth. All three are required. PAE, NX, and SSE2. If PAE and NX are disabled in the BIOS, Windows will actually force them on at start-up. Anything which supports NX also supports PAE and SSE2. So it's easiest to ask if the CPU supports NX. If it does, it should work.

NX is crucial for security. SSE2 is needed because code in the OS and apps made in the last couple of years use SSE2 instructions. Without it, the system will crash.

I never disagreed that the OS needed SSE2 I just pointed out that any CPU capable of running the OS already supports it. I'd also disagree that NX is a killer security feature. It certainly helps things a great deal but it's not as if disabling it suddenly turns your computer into a hotspot of hacking activity it just makes you a little more vulnerable. Windows 7 can work without NX so whilst I absolutely understand the advantages of having it enabled, not allowing people to install because of lacking it still seems like a pretty tacky move to me as plenty of hardware without NX support is capable of running Windows 8.

[siah1214]

News flash, horseless carriages don't run on hay and water.

;)

Hardware becomes outmoded. My school sells 4 year old bump down computers with Core 2 duo processors for $100 if you're in the east texas area and interested. They'd run Win 8 just fine.

[rfirth]

Everything that supports NX also supports SSE2. True.

Well technically that is true if you count Segment level NX which has been included in Intel CPU's since the 80286.

You have it backward. That's evidence of a CPU that supports NX but not SSE2. That would make it technically false.

However neither old nor modern versions of Windows ever had support for segment based NX. NX as we see it today is known as the "flat memory model" and this is the only form of NX that all modern operating systems support, and that is the version that I was referring to. In terms of any form of useful functionality software NX has only been available since Windows XP SP2 and hardware based NX has only been available in a usable form since the Pentium 4 models I already mentioned, and AMD Athlon 64 CPU's. Given how far back Segment based NX goes there's a 0% chance the Windows 8 installer can be referencing it, as even absolutely ancient CPU's supported it. That therefore means that Brandon is referring to the more modern form of NX and as such the information he has provided is verifiably false.

Name a CPU that supports NX but does not support SSE2. Only then will it be verifiably false. No, we're not talking about segment based NX.

My point: NX implies SSE2, but SSE2 does not imply NX.