What happened to NeoWin?

[CrimsonBetrayal]

I used to like this place, and be a more active member, but apparently nowadays its okay for moderators to delete comments they don't agree with... is this really how Neowin likes to operate it's open forum? Also taking the stance that moderation is not open for discussion seems a bit communist to me? Maybe you guys should change your theme colours to red...

[Calum Veteran]

None of our Moderators are allowed to remove comments or posts merely because they disagree with the content. Only posts which are against our rules (that includes off-topic posts) are removed. If you believe any of your posts that weren't against our rules have been removed, please send a personal message to me or another Supervisor.

Moderation is always open for discussion, but only privately, and for good reasons. If you are unhappy with a moderation decision, why would you want or require that discussion to be public, instead of privately messaging someone who can do something about it (a Supervisor or Administrator)? If you think carefully about why we believe such discussions should be private, you'll probably realise why. There isn't just one reason for this; there are a few :)

[CrimsonBetrayal]

While I know the rules (as you can see I've been a member since 2003), I rarely comment and it's only when I feel like I can add to the conversation. While strictly speaking I was not talking specifically about the charm bar in Windows 8, I was speaking generally about people and their decisions to modify it and having it be a personal preference.

When in school, we're taught to generalize our conversation as to better cover a wide range of conversational areas on the specific topic. As the topic was the Windows 8 Charm Bar modifications, and my comment was related to how Metro (and by association the charm bar) is not for everyone and I can understand why not everyone wants to use it, especially businesses.

I did not come in talking about waffles, nor did I start a thread in the topic on the average precipitation in New York in June. My post was strictly in the area of the topic Windows 8 Metro (and by association the charm bar).

The moderator in question responds to users with "Try Linux?" when they say they don't like Metro (and by association the charm bar), but my comment directly relating to Metro (and by association the charm bar) is removed by said moderator for being off-topic? I find that laughable, the op of the topic even liked my comment before it was removed.

This is the topic in question:

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1085115-wanna-get-rid-of-that-ridiculous-charms-bar-heres-how/

Have a look as who's culling threads and I think you'll work it out. I'll give you a hint, he loves linux and Windows 8 Metro (and by association the charm bar).

I need no private messages, I don't keep secrets, and I represent myself as myself online, unlike many these days. I am an old dog, I've been here since almost the beginning, but I find the heavy-handed way in which things are being run as of late as almost laughable. Neobond asks frequently what can be done to make Neowin better again, I'll tell you, stop deleting posts that don't mirror your own opinons. By it's very nature, a forum is for open discussion.

[paulheu]

Funny how you first say you know the rules, then continue to basically ignore them..

[Barney T. Administrators]

^ Agree with Calum. These kinds of posts are rooted in misconceptions that spread like any rumor. Calum is correct. You can always PM a Supervisor or Admin to help resolve issues. Our goal is to have a happy and vibrant community and member issues are a top priority. PM one of us if you have issues with any staff. Our board rules state that administrative issues are not to be aired in public. It has nothing to do with secrets, but these actions distract from the intent of the site and are no one's business except the individuals involved.

Additionally, Neowin is not a public forum. It is privately owned and is subject to the rules of the Administrators. It is their game, so they make the rules.

[CrimsonBetrayal]

Funny how you first say you know the rules, then continue to basically ignore them..

Oh? Care to explain how I ignore them? Your post seems off-topic...

[CrimsonBetrayal]

^ Agreed. These kinds of posts are rooted in misconceptions that spread like any rumor. Calum is correct. You can always PM a Supervisor or Admin to help resolve issues. Our goal is to have a happy and vibrant community and member issues are a top priority. PM one of us if you have issues with any staff. Our board rules state that administrative issues are not to be aired in public. It has nothing to do with secrets, but these actions distract from the intent of the site and are no one's business except the individuals involved.

So those responsible can hide behind their computer screens? Neowin has not been a happy a vibrant community for some time...

Also, the intent of the site is open discussion about it and it related topics. At least, open in such a way that the moderators agree with your opinion.

Deleting my thread was against your own rules as it broke none of them, and as such why should I be punished but those responsible not be? Everyone is so hush hush about these things.

Also, last I checked, this was general discussion, is this not a general topic? Or is it against the rules because I am raising a complaint about how a moderator is issuing authority publicly?

[Nick H. Supervisor]

Oh? Care to explain how I ignore them? Your post seems off-topic...

No Personal Attacks or Retaliation.

Respect Moderator Decisions.

Use the Neowin Reporting System Properly.

This thread basically breaks all three. The last one not so much, but the reporting tool is there to prevent threads like these.

[Steven P. Administrators]

Those Metro posts are a melting pot for flamebait and not really a good example of other topics posted here, that don't get "cleaned". Any topic like NVIDIA vs ATi, Intel vs AMD and Metro supporters and those that hate it are never going to be a shining example of the community. I found the "Try Linux" comment and don't see what's wrong with it, if that is wrong we may as well purge hundreds of other posts where people say "Stick with Windows 7 then!"

I don't like the implementation of Metro start screen and the removal of the start button, I was able to present this in a newspost and even in a few forum posts but didn't have to resort to arguing with others about it lol. For some others that appears to be impossible :/

[paulheu]

Well, no one is holding a gun to your head to stay in for one.

Second you say you know the rules, the rules say (and you are informed by a Supervisor they do) to contact a Supervisor through a Personal Mail if you feel a moderator action is incorrect or unjustified. Despite you 'knowing the rules' you continue to bring up something the rules say you should do in a PM.

Honestly if you do not get the reason for this you may know the rules but have no clue what they mean.

Lastly, as you opened this can-o-worms in this thread my response is in fact completely on-topic.

[CrimsonBetrayal]

This thread basically breaks all three. The last one not so much, but the reporting tool is there to prevent threads like these.

So when an on-topic comment gets deleted I'm supposed to go behind close doors and beg to have it back? Get real...

Those Metro posts are a melting pot for flamebait and not really a good example of other topics posted here, that don't get "cleaned". Any topic like NVIDIA vs ATi, Intel vs AMD and Metro supporters and those that hate it are never going to be a shining example of the community. I found the "Try Linux" comment and don't see what's wrong with it, if that is wrong we may as well purge hundreds of other posts where people say "Stick with Windows 7 then!"

I don't like the implementation of Metro start screen and the removal of the start button, I was able to present this in a newspost and even in a few forum posts but didn't have to resort to arguing with others about it lol. For some others that appears to be impossible :/

Neobond, "Try Linux" was more off topic than my comment, and it got to stay. Your moderators need to moderate themselves. I used to love this site man...

[Steven P. Administrators]

The whole topic is dumb imo.. "How to completely cripple Windows 8" would have been a more apt title. Why get worked up over something initially so stupid (in my own opinion)?

[CrimsonBetrayal]

Well, no one is holding a gun to your head to stay in for one.

Second you say you know the rules, the rules say (and you are informed by a Supervisor they do) to contact a Supervisor through a Personal Mail if you feel a moderator action is incorrect or unjustified. Despite you 'knowing the rules' you continue to bring up something the rules say you should do in a PM.

Honestly if you do not get the reason for this you may know the rules but have no clue what they mean.

Lastly, as you opened this can-o-worms in this thread my response is in fact completely on-topic.

I am not going to private message a moderator who can either A: Ignore me, or B: Tell me that his decision is not up for discussion. I notice he is not in here apologising which really, is the least he should be doing... Again a public forum is public, and I am not going to go behind closed doors and get a template response.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

So when an on-topic comment gets deleted I'm supposed to go behind close doors and beg to have it back? Get real...

It doesn't matter what the comment was or whether it was relevant to the topic or not. If you have a problem with something you follow the procedure in place. In comparison to your idea that PMing someone is the equivalent of begging for your comment to be put back, making a public thread about the same issue is the equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum in the middle of a supermarket.

[CrimsonBetrayal]

The whole topic is dumb imo.. "How to completely cripple Windows 8" would have been a more apt title. Why get worked up over something initially so stupid (in my own opinion)?

It's the principle Neobond, if I take the time to add something on-topic to a topic and it is removed by a moderator who posts more off-topic comments then me, it's both offensive and communist. If the whole topic was stupid then why wasn't the whole thing deleted instead of singling out a completely valid on-topic post! If you can't see the problem with that...

[Colin-uk Veteran]

It seems a little more apt to move the thread here.

[paulheu]

I am not going to private message a moderator who can either A: Ignore me, or B: Tell me that his decision is not up for discussion.

Besides not getting the forum guidelines you also have a reading problem it seems;

None of our Moderators are allowed to remove comments or posts merely because they disagree with the content. Only posts which are against our rules (that includes off-topic posts) are removed. If you believe any of your posts that weren't against our rules have been removed, please send a personal message to me or another Supervisor.

Moderation is always open for discussion, but only privately, and for good reasons. If you are unhappy with a moderation decision, why would you want or require that discussion to be public, instead of privately messaging someone who can do something about it (a Supervisor or Administrator)? If you think carefully about why we believe such discussions should be private, you'll probably realise why. There isn't just one reason for this; there are a few :)

[CrimsonBetrayal]

Besides not getting the forum guidelines you also have a reading problem it seems;

Oh, now who's breakiing rules Mr. You also have a reading problem it seems??

No Personal Attacks or Retaliation.

Wise guy huh?

[Nick H. Supervisor]

Annnd....let's close this thread. Not even 20 posts in and it's degenerated to name calling and mockery making. And let's face it, the point has been made.

If you don't like a decision, follow the rules and PM a mod.

If you don't want to follow the rules and procedures, I suggest looking for a different site.

[CrimsonBetrayal]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand... that's how we roll around these parts now. Thanks for missing my point completely...

[Steven P. Administrators]

If members didn't get so "touchy" we wouldn't need to define and redefine the forum rules all the time, and believe me that is what has happened over the years because some people take a light jibe too seriously :/

[CrimsonBetrayal]

If members didn't get so "touchy" we wouldn't need to define and redefine the forum rules all the time, and believe me that is what has happened over the years because some people take a light jibe too seriously :/

May be true? But I wasn't having a jibe at anyone in my post... Out of his three reasons the only one I could think would have been off-topic because it certainly wasn't any attack on anyone... And if that is the reason then it was wrong. Supervisors need to be either moderating their moderators better, or loosen up the suffocating grip on this group.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

Aaaaaaaaaaaand... that's how we roll around these parts now. Thanks for missing my point completely...

Oh no, I completely saw your point. You didn't like a decision that was made, but rather than following the rules and PMing a mod you created a public thread, and you did it because you don't like the procedure that is in place. Like it or not, that's not a valid reason.

[articuno1au]

@ Crimson - Whilst I agree with you somewhat, I think your point is well made and the staff are very aware of your concerns.

This isn't the first thread of it's kind (and it won't be the last) and a number of us have said similar things..

At this point may I suggest that given what you wanted to get across has been achieved it might be time to walk away and request the thread be closed before it gets out of hand?

[paulheu]

The thing is this.

When you do not like or agree with a moderator action you contact a Supervisor in a PM.

In my opinion if you choose to not do that you either know the mod was right or you're just trolling.

The mere fact this thread is still alive kind off proves you wrong anyway.