Nokia announces pink Lumia 900, available from AT&T on July 15th

[andrewbares]

What will suck is when the girls buy this phone and then find out that all the popular apps aren't on it and are only on WP8.

[George P Global Moderator]

If you're really interested in being realistic, you might care to acknowledge that whether users care or not, the fact is that they're not going to get WP8 and will be stuck with WP7's comparatively limited capabilities and dead-ended ecosystem. If you are going to pay money and commit to a contract, it makes zero sense to get a phone with less features, instead of more.

A customer is going to get locked into a contract. He has a choice of phone A, with more features, and phone B, with less features. Regardless of whether the customer needs the extra features or not, it's simply stupid to choose less features when you pay the same amount of money for it. It's a two year contract, you never know when the extra features might come in handy. I hope you're not going around encouraging anyone to buy a WP7 device now, because that's be nothing short of irresponsible.

You need to step out of the techie mentality and come to understand that not everyone thinks about the software and the hardware on a phone as two separate pieces but as a whole. When will you realize that the majority of consumers by the device for what it can do now and not what it can do 2 years from now? Tech is always being out done and yet people don't hold off on things for the next version which will obviously have more features, they buy what they want now. It's funny how you and others just don't want to see facts in front of you, quit thinking that your mindset is the same for everyone because it's not. People have and still keep buying phones running outdated versions of Android, do they care that it's 2.1 or 2.2 or 2.3 and not 4.0? Sure doesn't seem like it, Are they tossing fits that they don't have updates and dropping the platform on mass? Nope doesn't seem like it. So then why do you think the situation with WP7 vs WP8 will be different?

A dead ecosystem? I'm tired of this BS argument of yours, the market will determine when the WP7.x ecosystem is "dead" and no one, not you or I or anyone else knows how fast that will happen. WP8 has no ecosystem yet, it's going to have to grow and any developer who's going to work on a windows phone app or game will target what the majority has, that will be the older WP7.x devices until the WP8 users outgrow it. That could be 8 months after WP8 releases, it could be a year or more even. No one knows until it gets out there. The ecosystem is hardly dead so stop spreading your damn FUD already.

[BajiRav]

Here in the Netherlands no carrier offers three-year contracts and one-year contracts are reasonably priced. Even with high end phones. These days development around phones tend to go faster than computers.

/OT

Good god, is your new avatar inspired by Lumia too? Dude, you are obsessed!

[jakem1]

Would you buy a computer that you knew you wouldn't be able to upgrade to the next OS that was coming in a few months?

WP7.8 is the next OS for this series of phone and it will get an upgrade.

[.Neo]

Good god, is your new avatar inspired by Lumia too? Dude, you are obsessed!

The icon on it is Apple's though, so best of both worlds. ;)

[xeleraph]

You need to step out of the techie mentality and come to understand that not everyone thinks about the software and the hardware on a phone as two separate pieces but as a whole. When will you realize that the majority of consumers by the device for what it can do now and not what it can do 2 years from now? Tech is always being out done and yet people don't hold off on things for the next version which will obviously have more features, they buy what they want now. It's funny how you and others just don't want to see facts in front of you, quit thinking that your mindset is the same for everyone because it's not. People have and still keep buying phones running outdated versions of Android, do they care that it's 2.1 or 2.2 or 2.3 and not 4.0? Sure doesn't seem like it, Are they tossing fits that they don't have updates and dropping the platform on mass? Nope doesn't seem like it. So then why do you think the situation with WP7 vs WP8 will be different?

Just because people don't care about it, doesn't mean that it's a better choice. It just means that you're trying to come up with lame justifications to excuse Nokia/AT&T for trying to lure unsuspecting customers into an inferior deal when WP8 is right around the corner. I'm not denying the mindset. Except that the mindset is a result of sheer ignorance. Consumers aren't benefiting from buying dead-ended phones, OEMs and carriers are. Look at your own arguments. You're essentially saying "well, that's the way it is!". You're arguing that consumers should be taken advantage of by large corporations for being uninformed. You're not explaining how buying a Windows Phone now that will be stuck with an inferior OS and ecosystem is a better choice than waiting for a new product, available only a few short months from now, that is guaranteed to remain relevant for a much longer period. You're not explaining it... because that argument cannot be made.

A dead ecosystem? I'm tired of this BS argument of yours, the market will determine when the WP7.x ecosystem is "dead" and no one, not you or I or anyone else knows how fast that will happen. WP8 has no ecosystem yet, it's going to have to grow and any developer who's going to work on a windows phone app or game will target what the majority has, that will be the older WP7.x devices until the WP8 users outgrow it. That could be 8 months after WP8 releases, it could be a year or more even. No one knows until it gets out there. The ecosystem is hardly dead so stop spreading your damn FUD already.

Really? The only FUD I see here is where you try to argue that the WP7 ecosystem won't be dead when every indication shows that you'll be wrong. WP8 also ALREADY has an ecosystem by taking over from the WP7 ecosystem. The WP8 ecosystem doesn't need growing either; all WP apps will be compatible with it, which isn't true for WP7. But let's give you the benefit of doubt anyway, pretend that you're not making arguments based on false premises, and accept that the WP7 ecosystem MIGHT continue to survive. The question is: why take that risk? Why sign a 2-year contract and get tied to an ecosystem that might live, but would probably die? Why not wait a few months for the new ecosystem to arrive? Why commit yourself to such a risky position for the next two years on something that you'll need and use on a daily basis, just so you can PAY Nokia, AT&T and Microsoft for the "privilege" of being used as a beta tester?

Unfortunately the only sensible reason to buy a Windows Phone today is if you ABSOLUTELY NEED a Windows Phone NOW, and no other mobile OS will do. Either that, or you have cash to throw away because you're too rich to care. Needless to say, that criteria does not apply to vast majority of consumers.

[andrewbares]

Just because people don't care about it, doesn't mean that it's a better choice.

I like how fans now compare the WP update situation to being like Android, "Look at Android, most of those phones are 'dead on arrival' cause they never get updated!"

Do we want to be like Android when it comes to updates? That's a reallyyyy low bar to set. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to them at all, since their updates are basically the ultimate worst (though I love other things about Android). WP8 will be a whole lot better with updates, thanks to the 18+ month guarantee on updates.

[xeleraph]

Do we want to be like Android when it comes to updates? That's a reallyyyy low bar to set.

As low as that bar is, the sad fact is that WP is even worse. ICS was also a massive kernel overhaul and software stack rewrite similar to WP8, but ICS is running on 10% of Android devices at last count and climbing, while 0% of current WPs will run WP8.

And even if you don't get the ICS upgrade, there's still a thriving, backward-compatible app ecosystem and you can get all the user-facing features of ICS if you want to. Not so for WP8.

Recommending a consumer to go ahead and buy a WP today is nothing but suckering people into paying Nokia/MS to be a beta tester, simply because you're a fanboy who wants WP to succeed even at the expense of consumers. Irresponsible and disgusting.

[George P Global Moderator]

Just because people don't care about it, doesn't mean that it's a better choice. It just means that you're trying to come up with lame justifications to excuse Nokia/AT&T for trying to lure unsuspecting customers into an inferior deal when WP8 is right around the corner. I'm not denying the mindset. Except that the mindset is a result of sheer ignorance. Consumers aren't benefiting from buying dead-ended phones, OEMs and carriers are. Look at your own arguments. You're essentially saying "well, that's the way it is!". You're arguing that consumers should be taken advantage of by large corporations for being uninformed. You're not explaining how buying a Windows Phone now that will be stuck with an inferior OS and ecosystem is a better choice than waiting for a new product, available only a few short months from now, that is guaranteed to remain relevant for a much longer period. You're not explaining it... because that argument cannot be made.

Really? The only FUD I see here is where you try to argue that the WP7 ecosystem won't be dead when every indication shows that you'll be wrong. WP8 also ALREADY has an ecosystem by taking over from the WP7 ecosystem. The WP8 ecosystem doesn't need growing either; all WP apps will be compatible with it, which isn't true for WP7. But let's give you the benefit of doubt anyway, pretend that you're not making arguments based on false premises, and accept that the WP7 ecosystem MIGHT continue to survive. The question is: why take that risk? Why sign a 2-year contract and get tied to an ecosystem that might live, but would probably die? Why not wait a few months for the new ecosystem to arrive? Why commit yourself to such a risky position for the next two years on something that you'll need and use on a daily basis, just so you can PAY Nokia, AT&T and Microsoft for the "privilege" of being used as a beta tester?

Unfortunately the only sensible reason to buy a Windows Phone today is if you ABSOLUTELY NEED a Windows Phone NOW, and no other mobile OS will do. Either that, or you have cash to throw away because you're too rich to care. Needless to say, that criteria does not apply to vast majority of consumers.

Oh please, stop with the trying to take the moral high ground. Consumers get what they want to get, if they don't want to wait for WP8 then they won't wait, if the phone does what they want today they'll get it, ignorance? The silly thing is that you're still placing your own needs as the baseline for everyone else. People know better stuff is coming, do they wait? Not really. If all they want to do is email, FB, twitter and play a few games then they're covered. What the consumer wants, needs now is more important than what they might want a year from now. How is this so hard to even understand? It's why we have choice and not everything in the market is high end. What you're basically doing is calling anyone who buys a phone today a stupid idiot for not waiting for the newer and better phones that are coming soon. Good job there.

And your view of the ecosystem situation is narrow, in the end it's all about sales of newer WP8 devices and when they'll out number the older WP7 ones that determines what a developer does or doesn't do on the platform. It's a simple concept yet you don't seem to want to come to terms with it. WP8 device/phone sales will be the factor, and you don't know what they are going to be like. You say it already has a ecosystem, well holy ****, that's because it runs WP7 apps, meaning that developers will still code for the baseline because it's going to be the majority of the user base for the foreseeable future. Meaning newer apps coming even months after WP8 is on the market will still support WP7 devices until those are the minority of the market. False premises? More like common sense.

[xeleraph]

Oh please, stop with the trying to take the moral high ground. Consumers get what they want to get, if they don't want to wait for WP8 then they won't wait, if the phone does what they want today they'll get it, ignorance? The silly thing is that you're still placing your own needs as the baseline for everyone else. People know better stuff is coming, do they wait? Not really. If all they want to do is email, FB, twitter and play a few games then they're covered. What the consumer wants, needs now is more important than what they might want a year from now. How is this so hard to even understand? It's why we have choice and not everything in the market is high end. What you're basically doing is calling anyone who buys a phone today a stupid idiot for not waiting for the newer and better phones that are coming soon. Good job there.

I wasn't aware that stating facts is considered as taking the moral high ground. I'm not using my needs as a baseline. I'm explaining, using objective and quantifiable facts, why waiting a few more months for a future-proof device is a better option than committing to a 2-year contract with a dead-ended phone.

My needs do not matter. In fact I never even stated what my needs were, so you're just making ignorant assumptions about them. Your argument seems to be that we should let uninformed consumers do whatever they want even when there are better options available. How about you explain how is getting a WP7 now better than waiting 3 months for WP8? Even if all users want to do is "email, FB, twitter and play a few games", how will WP7 fulfill those tasks better than WP8 when WP7 has crappy multitasking, unreliable push notifications, no DirectX, no native code support? Can you please come up with arguments that actually answer the question instead of dodging it? Because when you argue that people should support Nokia and Microsoft at their own expense and to their own detriment by buying a dead-ended phone just because you want WP to succeed, you are losing your grip on reality. Or maybe it's my own fault for being gullible enough to believe a fanboy who says he's "being realistic"?

And your view of the ecosystem situation is narrow, in the end it's all about sales of newer WP8 devices and when they'll out number the older WP7 ones that determines what a developer does or doesn't do on the platform. It's a simple concept yet you don't seem to want to come to terms with it. WP8 device/phone sales will be the factor, and you don't know what they are going to be like. You say it already has a ecosystem, well holy ****, that's because it runs WP7 apps, meaning that developers will still code for the baseline because it's going to be the majority of the user base for the foreseeable future. Meaning newer apps coming even months after WP8 is on the market will still support WP7 devices until those are the minority of the market. False premises? More like common sense.

It's really ironic that you're calling my view narrow when you're deliberately ignoring the fact that the Win8 ecosystem does not consist of WP8 alone. Saying that developers will not code for the Win8 ecosystem because WP8 market share is miniscule, makes just about as much sense as saying that developers will not code for the Android ecosystem because the Android tablet market share is miniscule.

Also, I see that you've dodged my argument. Let's assume you have valid points here. Except that why should a consumer bet their hard-earned cash and next two years on the possibility that you may be right? Waiting for WP8, or buying Android/iOS, is a sure bet as far as app compatibility and capability is concerned. Why take the risk and pay the money, just to be a beta tester? How many times do you need to be shafted by Nokia/Microsoft before you learn, and why do you think anyone should be as masochistic as you are?

[George P Global Moderator]

I wasn't aware that stating facts is considered as taking the moral high ground. I'm not using my needs as a baseline. I'm explaining, using objective and quantifiable facts, why waiting a few more months for a future-proof device is a better option than committing to a 2-year contract with a dead-ended phone.

My needs do not matter. In fact I never even stated what my needs were, so you're just making ignorant assumptions about them. Your argument seems to be that we should let uninformed consumers do whatever they want even when there are better options available. How about you explain how is getting a WP7 now better than waiting 3 months for WP8? Even if all users want to do is "email, FB, twitter and play a few games", how will WP7 fulfill those tasks better than WP8 when WP7 has crappy multitasking, unreliable push notifications, no DirectX, no native code support? Can you please come up with arguments that actually answer the question instead of dodging it? Because when you argue that people should support Nokia and Microsoft at their own expense and to their own detriment by buying a dead-ended phone just because you want WP to succeed, you are losing your grip on reality. Or maybe it's my own fault for being gullible enough to believe a fanboy who says he's "being realistic"?

It's really ironic that you're calling my view narrow when you're deliberately ignoring the fact that the Win8 ecosystem does not consist of WP8 alone. Saying that developers will not code for the Win8 ecosystem because WP8 market share is miniscule, makes just about as much sense as saying that developers will not code for the Android ecosystem because the Android tablet market share is miniscule.

Also, I see that you've dodged my argument. Let's assume you have valid points here. Except that why should a consumer bet their hard-earned cash and next two years on the possibility that you may be right? Waiting for WP8, or buying Android/iOS, is a sure bet as far as app compatibility and capability is concerned. Why take the risk and pay the money, just to be a beta tester? How many times do you need to be shafted by Nokia/Microsoft before you learn, and why do you think anyone should be as masochistic as you are?

Oh right, here comes the fanboy tag, nice. I should've expected you'd go there, oh well. Why is the argument now about what can do the job better instead of can the job be done at all? Why are you spinning things now? Of course WP8 can do the job better than WP7, that wasn't the point or the debate. The point was that if a WP7 device can do what a consumer wants now, and they're fine with that way then there is no need for them to wait. Their needs are met, they're covered. People see something they like, it does what they want, they get it. It's simple to understand yet you want to try and make it technical. It doesn't have DirectX or native code support, man, because using FB needs those two things? This is why I said you need to stop thinking about it from your side only. You're bringing up specs and APIs and other technical things that majority of consumers don't care about. DirectX? Do you think they even know what that is? Oh but you'll just call them ignorant for not knowing as much of the technical underpinnings of the platform as you do, guess they're just stupid and you're the smart one.

It's also silly how you want to call this a detriment, man, are you new to tech or something? People have been buying things that get outdated and "dead-ended" a few months later for years. This isn't exactly new to them. If a person asks me if they should get xx device I ask them what they want to do with it first and foremost. If they're needs are met and the costs is fine then they should get it if they really want to.

Moving on to, once again, the ecosystem. And I see you've once more brought Windows 8 into this, even though we're talking about the phone and not PCs. I don't remember saying developers won't code for Windows 8, please point that out. The one making a connection here for no reason is you. A developer will code for Windows 8, sure, but you're leaving out the part about them porting the app to WP8. Why are you assuming they automatically will? That's just not the case unless WP8 has the userbase to make it worth the port, and that, once again, goes back to device sales. I don't know how many times I have to say it for you to get it, maybe you just don't want to admit it. The argument you bring up with this is void. If you're basing this whole thing on the idea that Windows 8 sales will somehow drag WP8 sales with it then you're dreaming. It also seems clear that you're not a developer, at least I hope not. It doesn't get more simple to understand than this, until WP8 devices outnumber WP7 devices it makes no sense for a developer to only target the minority with a WP8 only app or a ported app from Windows 8 and miss out on the bigger userbase that's still on WP7.8.

The change will happen when WP7 is the minority and we don't know when that will be, it's simple market mechanics. Developers will target the lowest common denominator WP7, until that group of users is the minority. This is on the phone of course, and this has zero to do with Windows 8 or tablets or PCs, even when the core bits are the same we're still talking about porting apps to a different hardware platform. These ports won't happen till the sales make it worth while, again, it could be 8 months or a year for all we know. In that time WP7 will still be getting apps, even new ones because that's what's out there in most WP owners hands.

[xeleraph]

Oh right, here comes the fanboy tag, nice. I should've expected you'd go there, oh well. Why is the argument now about what can do the job better instead of can the job be done at all? Why are you spinning things now? Of course WP8 can do the job better than WP7, that wasn't the point or the debate. The point was that if a WP7 device can do what a consumer wants now, and they're fine with that way then there is no need for them to wait. Their needs are met, they're covered. People see something they like, it does what they want, they get it. It's simple to understand yet you want to try and make it technical. It doesn't have DirectX or native code support, man, because using FB needs those two things? This is why I said you need to stop thinking about it from your side only. You're bringing up specs and APIs and other technical things that majority of consumers don't care about. DirectX? Do you think they even know what that is? Oh but you'll just call them ignorant for not knowing as much of the technical underpinnings of the platform as you do, guess they're just stupid and you're the smart one.

No, Facebook doesn't DirectX and/or native code access to run. But you do know that there's a reason why games like Angry Birds won't run on WP7 devices with 256MB RAM but work just fine on Android/iOS devices, right?

No, I don't think I'm smart. But you should really educate yourself basic stuff before making arguments that make you sound ignorant.

And the argument has always been about which is better. If you're going to spend money and commit to a 2-year contract, why would you choose an inferior dead-ended device? This isn't a normal scenario where a newer phone is coming, but the older ones will still be upgraded. This is a scenario where the older phones will be cut off from the new ecosystem and be left with an uncertain future when they are already BEHIND the competition. When two or more options are available, why would you recommend a consumer to make the worse choice? It doesn't make sense unless your goal is to get the consumer to fork over their money and support Nokia/Microsoft at their detriment. Maybe you should have expected the fanboy tag because you're sounding exactly like one.

It's also silly how you want to call this a detriment, man, are you new to tech or something? People have been buying things that get outdated and "dead-ended" a few months later for years. This isn't exactly new to them. If a person asks me if they should get xx device I ask them what they want to do with it first and foremost. If they're needs are met and the costs is fine then they should get it if they really want to.

Really? So your argument is that just because it's been happening all along, making inferior choices because you're ignorant about the options doesn't mean it's a detriment?

It's a detriment whether you like it or not. Just because the consumer isn't aware of it doesn't mean they're not making bad choices, both for themselves and the ecosystem in general. Sure, it's their money and they're free to do whatever they want with it. But like I said, when you encourage them to make inferior choices with their money when they are trusting you to give good advice based on your (supposedly) superior technical knowledge, then it's simply disgusting and irresponsible. If you still want to hand money over to Nokia/Microsoft despite how hard they're shafting you, like a spouse sticking with an abusive partner, at least have the decency do it out of your own pocket instead of trying to sucker other people into doing it for you.

Moving on to, once again, the ecosystem. And I see you've once more brought Windows 8 into this, even though we're talking about the phone and not PCs.

Actually, we're talking ecosystems. Which was why I brought Windows 8 into this. I have already explained it to you, but all you do is reject it without even addressing my argument. It's like talking to a brick wall.

I don't remember saying developers won't code for Windows 8, please point that out. The one making a connection here for no reason is you. A developer will code for Windows 8, sure, but you're leaving out the part about them porting the app to WP8. Why are you assuming they automatically will? That's just not the case unless WP8 has the userbase to make it worth the port, and that, once again, goes back to device sales. I don't know how many times I have to say it for you to get it, maybe you just don't want to admit it.

Because if Joe Belfiore is to be believed, WinRT and WP8 apps will be mostly cross-compatible. Maybe you think that's not a reason to make a connection, but then again so far you haven't exactly demonstrated a firm grasp on reality. I have explained this repeatedly: the Win8 ecosystem does not consist solely of WP8. It consists of Win8/WinRT/WP8 together. You keep ignoring this and claim we should only look at WP8 when Belfiore has already explained at the WP8 developer conference that the ecosystems are linked.

If you choose to continue to be delusional and deny reality, or if you think you know more about the Win8 ecosystem than Joe Belfiore does, then there's little point in continuing this discussion. If on the other hand you're interested in factoring reality into your arguments, then that's the part where your user base argument gets blown right out of the water. The user base of the WP7 ecosystem is absolutely puny when compared to the Win8 ecosystem which, as you have admitted yourself, developers WILL code for. The question then remains; will developers commit to maintain a separate codebase for legacy WP7 devices with a comparatively negligible and dwindling user base? Even if they wanted to, is it feasible for many smaller indie studios or developers? Or do they focus on maximizing their returns by focusing on the Win8 ecosystem with its much larger user base?

And again, you are still dodging the question. Let's assume that the majority of developers find it feasible to continue supporting the legacy WP7 ecosystem that has no growth potential and has nowhere to go but down. Let's assume they choose to do so. The question is still: why should consumers bet their time and money that you're right, instead of going with the surer option of WP8? Why do you keep avoiding this question?

[Miuku.]

WP7.8 is the next OS for this series of phone and it will get an upgrade.

More like a service pack than an upgrade - let's not forget, a Lumia 900 costs about the same as a computer, in fact in a lot of places it costs more.

[jakem1]

More like a service pack than an upgrade - let's not forget, a Lumia 900 costs about the same as a computer, in fact in a lot of places it costs more.

A service pack is a collection of bug fixes whereas WP7.8 brings new features to the OS. It's clearly an upgrade whether it suits your argument or not..

The cost of the phone has no bearing on this discussion whatsoever.

[.Neo]

More like a service pack than an upgrade - let's not forget, a Lumia 900 costs about the same as a computer, in fact in a lot of places it costs more.

At this point nobody knows for sure what Windows Phone 7.8 will bring. You're no exception, so please stop pretending you are.

[xeleraph]

At this point nobody knows for sure what Windows Phone 7.8 will bring. You're no exception, so please stop pretending you are.

Microsoft have already announced improved multitasking, Skype integration, IE10, etc. Why do you think they're keeping quiet about whether WP7.8 will get any of them?

I remember the last time people kept arguing "nobody knows for sure whether current devices will receive the WP8 upgrade" to defend WP. Yeah, that went well...

[.Neo]

Microsoft have already announced improved multitasking, Skype integration, IE10, etc. Why do you think they're keeping quiet about whether WP7.8 will get any of them?

At this point Microsoft only confirmed the new Start screen for Windows Phone 7.8.

I remember the last time people kept arguing "nobody knows for sure whether current devices will receive the WP8 upgrade" to defend WP. Yeah, that went well...

At they were right based on the information available at the time. Fact was nobody knew for sure.

[Mr. Gibs]

No, Facebook doesn't DirectX and/or native code access to run. But you do know that there's a reason why games like Angry Birds won't run on WP7 devices with 256MB RAM but work just fine on Android/iOS devices, right?

Simple, its optimizations.

WP7 has a "soft" limit of 90mb of RAM access for each application. Phones with more than 256mb of RAM can access more than that without any issue, however ones with 256mb cannot. Since day one Microsoft have said app developers should aim for 90mb but people didn't care since until recently 256mb WP7 devices didn't exist.

[xeleraph]

Simple, its optimizations.

WP7 has a "soft" limit of 90mb of RAM access for each application. Phones with more than 256mb of RAM can access more than that without any issue, however ones with 256mb cannot. Since day one Microsoft have said app developers should aim for 90mb but people didn't care since until recently 256mb WP7 devices didn't exist.

Hm, that's a fair argument.

What do you think about Sky's situation, though, where Nokia reportedly even tried to optimize it themselves for the Lumia 610, but failed anyway?

[Miuku.]

At this point nobody knows for sure what Windows Phone 7.8 will bring. You're no exception, so please stop pretending you are.

So far the only thing I've seen is Microsoft and Nokia withholding information on purpose in order to sell phones that will be "left out of the loop", with excuses like "We'll bring in new features" and the only thing they have to show for it currently is a stripped down version of Maps from Symbian and some additional camera applications that are about as impressive as a moldy rock.

As for the "pretending that you know", I'll just ask you this; why do you think I didn't get a Lumia when I'm a long time Nokia user? Look at my location, then have a wild guess which company I used to work for.

My next phone won't be Nokia, Apple or Android based anyway - hello Jolla.

[Growled Member]

I wouldn't want one of these regardless of color. I wouldn't want to be locked in a two year contract on an almost dead platform.

[.Neo]

So far the only thing I've seen is Microsoft and Nokia withholding information on purpose in order to sell phones that will be "left out of the loop", with excuses like "We'll bring in new features" and the only thing they have to show for it currently is a stripped down version of Maps from Symbian and some additional camera applications that are about as impressive as a moldy rock.

Fact is the average person on the street does't give a flying **** about OS updates, so in the end it won't matter too much. Case in point: BlackBerry has been doing insanely well for the past four years here in the Netherlands even though the company has a terrible track record when it comes to updates.

I do agree though that in general both Microsoft and Nokia should have been more transparent about the whole thing. That said I got the Nokia Lumia 900 on a one-year contract (which due to an administration error never got registered :laugh: ) fully knowing it wouldn't get Windows Phone 8 and really couldn't be happier with it. If the error doesn't get corrected I'll be able to get a Windows Phone 8 phone this fall anyway. Whether I'll actually do it is a second.

[Charisma Veteran]

I wouldn't want one of these regardless of color. I wouldn't want to be locked in a two year contract on an almost dead platform.

Again... if it works and does what you want it to, it's not dead. Only people who really care about those particular features, or are just concerned about the size of their e-peen, are going to give a crap. If it has a camera, does Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, texts, emails, and phone calls, the target market for this phone will be happy. End of story.

[George P Global Moderator]

Fact is the average person on the street does't give a flying **** about OS updates, so in the end it won't matter too much. Case in point: BlackBerry has been doing insanely well for the past four years here in the Netherlands even though the company has a terrible track record when it comes to updates.

I do agree though that in general both Microsoft and Nokia should have been more transparent about the whole thing. That said I got the Nokia Lumia 900 on a one-year contract (which due to an administration error never got registered :laugh: ) fully knowing it wouldn't get Windows Phone 8 and really couldn't be happier with it.

I've been saying just this but it seems i'm only making fanboy excuses for MS. People buy whatever they want and like now, they just don't wait for what might come next year or even with the next version. Technology has been doing this to them since the start and they're used to it. They'll just upgrade to the newer Lumia WP8 phone a year from now or as soon as they can and life will go on. I've noticed that people don't hang on to the same phone for 5+ years like a PC or a TV etc.

Not getting the upgrade sucks, but there's no reason to stop selling Lumia 900s if there's a group out there that still wants to buy them. I've heard people that have told others not to get it because it won't get WP8 only to be told that they don't care, they like it and they want it now. There's nothing else you can do, and why should you? If people know the facts and still want to get what they want to get who am I to say otherwise?

[.Neo]

I've been saying just this but it seems i'm only making fanboy excuses for MS.

The sheer fact we're actually on this forum discussing these things means we don't qualify as being an average user. Quite a few people on Neowin (and elsewhere) have an annoying tendency to rationalize things from their perspective only. They completely fail to comprehend or take into account the average consumer simply thinks differently and in general has much lower standards than us. Instead they apply their train of thought 1:1 to the average consumer. In reality it doesn't work that way.

Anyway, you can apply the above to Windows Phone 8, OS X Mountain Lion or whatever you can think of.