Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade

[abysal]

I feel like searching for items is more accurate now. Regardless of the extra second it takes to click apps, settings or files.

Not only that, but if you go to your charms and click settings. There is a spot that says tiles. From there you can turn on admin tools which links all your main control panel tools on your start screen. From there you can organize them as you wish.

Seriously though, you can literally pin anything to your start screen. So.. if you pin it, it's always a click away.

I think both searches are just as accurate for files, apps, and os settings. I know about turning on admin tools. However pinning all those things make it look cluttered to me.

[superconductive]

Microsoft consistently has this pattern of:

(1) Create great software that everyone loves and is highly acclaimed

(2) Completely ignore everyone's feedback and do something bold next cycle

(3) Realize their arrogance after extremely poor sales & feedback, finally decide to listen to users and create another great piece of software

We've seen this in Millenium, Vista, and now (predicting) Windows 8.

Only microsoft has this cycle of software releases. We should dub this the "Microsoft phenomenon"

[bjoswald]

I am amazed this thread hasn't been locked yet. Although there's a ton of worthless troll posts, there really is an intelligent discussion in here somewhere. Windows 8 will be a very revolutionary release; even if it's a flop, the buzz around it is almost suffocating.

[c.grz]

Microsoft consistently has this pattern of:

(1) Create great software that everyone loves and is highly acclaimed

(2) Completely ignore everyone's feedback and do something bold next cycle

(3) Realize their arrogance after extremely poor sales & feedback, finally decide to listen to users and create another great piece of software

We've seen this in Millenium, Vista, and now (predicting) Windows 8.

Only microsoft has this cycle of software releases. We should dub this the "Microsoft phenomenon"

Seriously? How was ME/Vista completely ignoring people's feedback?

Windows 7 was the logical direction after Vista. Vista being a failure was nothing more than people deciding to hate it before it was released.

If anything Windows 7 is the new XP, people love it so much that any attempt to change it will result in backlash.

[Dot Matrix]

I love it when people say Microsoft is being arrogant, as if they're not allowed to change anything before asking us, to change their OS. How are they being arrogant? And don't say it's choice. The choice is there, you have the choices you're going to get. Technical reasons cannot be sidestepped in this manor.

[superconductive]

I love it when people say Microsoft is being arrogant, as if they're not allowed to change anything before asking us, to change their OS. How are they being arrogant? And don't say it's choice. The choice is there, you have the choices you're going to get. Technical reasons cannot be sidestepped in this manor.

So removing the start menu even when it caused a huge stir isn't arrogant then? Please, spare me.

And don't try to deny it didn't cause a reaction because it DID.

[Dot Matrix]

So removing the start menu even when it caused a huge stir isn't arrogant then? Please, spare me.

And don't try to deny it didn't cause a reaction because it DID.

So? It caused a reaction. That's expected. But it's not arrogance when there were technical reasons for its death.

[ahhell]

So removing the start menu even when it caused a huge stir isn't arrogant then? Please, spare me.

And don't try to deny it didn't cause a reaction because it DID.

A "huge stir" of people that wouldn't actually buy the damn thing in the first place. Yeah, MS should listen to them. :pinch:

[badall]

I've been using it for months and have no issues with a mouse and keyboard. I think you may just be biased, or just inexperienced. Windows Key is your friend.

How was I biased ? Is it because I have my own opinion that does not conform to yours ?

inexperienced ? I have used every version of windows since win 3.11, I have been building my computers and networks for 15 years and provide ICT support for a local charity.

windows key is your friend ? I am happy with my mouse thanks it doesn't set off the pain in my hands and wrists as much as the keyboard does.

[WinMunkee]

How was I biased ? Is it because I have my own opinion that does not conform to yours ?

inexperienced ? I have used every version of windows since win 3.11, I have been building my computers and networks for 15 years and provide ICT support for a local charity.

windows key is your friend ? I am happy with my mouse thanks it doesn't set off the pain in my hands and wrists as much as the keyboard does.

Then left-click the lower left corner of your screen. You know, where the start menu has always been? It's still there. For such an experienced user you should know that.

[grayscale]

So removing the start menu even when it caused a huge stir isn't arrogant then? Please, spare me.

And don't try to deny it didn't cause a reaction because it DID.

It caused a reaction: both positive and negative. This thread won't live this long if you only have "whiners" and no "fanboys".

How was I biased ? Is it because I have my own opinion that does not conform to yours ?

inexperienced ? I have used every version of windows since win 3.11, I have been building my computers and networks for 15 years and provide ICT support for a local charity.

windows key is your friend ? I am happy with my mouse thanks it doesn't set off the pain in my hands and wrists as much as the keyboard does.

Yeah, we heard that. All the time.

[Bugballou]

Vista matured to 7, I imagine 8 will mature to 9. That said, I like Vista post SP2, and Vista is the OS that pushed me to the Linux desktop, thank you Microsoft. Wish I could get the masses to do my heavy lifting too, and be able to sell an upgrade as new.. : p

[Gerowen]

Sounds like a disgruntled windows user. I heard 2013 will be the year of the Linux. See you there!

As a Linux user, I've learned to take this joke in stride because I'm not under the illusion that a kernel with hundreds of operating systems based around it and compatible software will gain significant market share. Google seems to be doing well with Android, and supporting major Linux distros, but let's not kid ourselves. The problem that "The year of Linux" has, is that people get fed up with Windows, go to something else that looks nice, and runs great if you know how to use it, and then get mad when they realize, "What do you mean you can't run Windows software on Linux, wtf!?" and then suck it up and go right back to what they're familiar with. People want to use what works for them.

Example. I fixed a laptop a couple of years ago for a friend of mine, and because he didn't have the regular restore discs I threw Debian Linux on it for him. He is not a computer tech by any stretch, and loves the fact that it hasn't slowed down or gotten infected with malware. The other day though, he tried to sign some counseling statements for work (US Army), and there is no PureEdge or Lotus Forms viewer for Linux, so since he does a lot of that at home, he's asked me to help him switch it back over to Windows, after two years of being happy with Linux, just because a lot of major software vendors don't create their products for multiple platforms.

[encarta]

If you know better, why don't you actually post useful information instead of a lame facepalm pic, hmm? I genuinely want to know if you can still access the normal boot menu without first having to get into Windows in the first place.

The facepalm pic was for all those steps, not the poster or anyone else.

[PGHammer]

So? It caused a reaction. That's expected. But it's not arrogance when there were technical reasons for its death.

The backlash over its death is not for technical reasons any more than hatred of shopping is for technical reasons.

I freely admit that I hate/loathe/despise shopping for clothes - it's at the point that I do it only in extremis. However, I know the reasons FOR that hatred aren't logical.

The folks chewing out Microsoft for killing hte Start menu (and the other changes made with Windows 8) are no more doing it from a logical position than my hating shopping for clothing - in fact, quite a few readily admit that it's not the technical aspects that have them upset.

In fact, a vast majority of the critics admit that they are plain and simply used to doing things a certain way and want no part of chaning how they do things.

That's fine; all that those of us that actually are willing to accept the changes that Windows 8 brings get the truth out of you (that it's emotion) as opposed to you trying to blow smoke up our respective rear ends with pseudologic.

[Dot Matrix]

In fact, a vast majority of the critics admit that they are plain and simply used to doing things a certain way and want no part of chaning how they do things.

.

Unfortunately, that's how computing works, though. Things change whether you want them to or not. It's just one of those things you have to deal with or get out and find a new profession. Frankly speaking IT guys are the ones who should be more adapt at changing, and more open to rolling up their sleeves and figuring out how things are going to be with those changes.

[atomicparkerman]

Unfortunately, that's how computing works, though. Things change whether you want them to or not. It's just one of those things you have to deal with or get out and find a new profession. Frankly speaking IT guys are the ones who should be more adapt at changing, and more open to rolling up their sleeves and figuring out how things are going to be with those changes.

I haven't signed in to Neowin in years but I had to reply to this. As someone in IT, I think you might be missing the point. We are adaptive to change. We didn't get into this business because we hate technology or change. Why would you even be in IT if you hate computers and new software or hardware or any number of new and interesting things that it brings? It's not us you should be worried about, it's the millions of office workers, moms, grandparents, clueless teenagers, and bosses who come to US to with frustrations and problems with change this drastic and counter-intuative. Windows 8 is going to be a support nightmare, you know it and I know it. There's no intuitive interface there whatsoever, it takes ages to locate old control panel settings, the will it or won't it work attitude of mouse gestures to bring up basic function like searching or applications is a awful.

There are some really nice things hidden under all that Metro bull**** like the new Windows Explorer and Task Manager, but that's just it: It's hidden under bull**** that didn't need to be part of a desktop OS in the first place.

But we all know Microsoft will call it a success because millions of licences will be sold, because there will be no other option. Something has to go on PCs.

[Lirodon]

I'm going to tell you one thing;

My main desktop (soon to be replaced) currently runs Vista, and I got it for free through that upgrade promotion; and for that reason, I don't feel as much pain for "wasting" money on Vista, since I didn't have to pay for Vista itself, just the computer it came o). I've used computers with 7, and my laptop has 7 as well, and I can clearly agree with why its so much better. But, going from Vista to 8 on the main desktop will be enough of a jump for me since 8 still has a lot of the improvements that made Windows 7 good in your opinion, it's just that you have to live with the somewhat awkward, ahem, Modern interface. But with the significantly lower price, 8 won't feel as much of a waste to me than to others for similar reasons to my Vista scenario, and simply because i'm getting a "discount", whose only condition is having a somewhat different desktop. That's all.

[BajiRav]

I haven't signed in to Neowin in years but I had to reply to this. As someone in IT, I think you might be missing the point. We are adaptive to change. We didn't get into this business because we hate technology or change. Why would you even be in IT if you hate computers and new software or hardware or any number of new and interesting things that it brings? It's not us you should be worried about, it's the millions of office workers, moms, grandparents, clueless teenagers, and bosses who come to US to with frustrations and problems with change this drastic and counter-intuative. Windows 8 is going to be a support nightmare, you know it and I know it. There's no intuitive interface there whatsoever, it takes ages to locate old control panel settings, the will it or won't it work attitude of mouse gestures to bring up basic function like searching or applications is a awful.

There are some really nice things hidden under all that Metro bull**** like the new Windows Explorer and Task Manager, but that's just it: It's hidden under bull**** that didn't need to be part of a desktop OS in the first place.

But we all know Microsoft will call it a success because millions of licences will be sold, because there will be no other option. Something has to go on PCs.

Your post started with acceptable reasoning and then turned into usual bull**** anti-metro arguments. It doesn't take ages to get to control panel or basic searched. I get it, you don't like it but please stop nonsense like that.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

Your post started with acceptable reasoning and then turned into usual bull**** anti-metro arguments. It doesn't take ages to get to control panel or basic searched. I get it, you don't like it but please stop nonsense like that.

The current separation between the "Modern" computer settings and the legacy control panel is idiotic.

If you search for "language" and then click on the first result ("switch input language"), the settings charm slides in from the right, where you really can't do anything if you only have one input language enabled.

If you click on the second result, ("General"), you're sent to the "Modern" language settings which in turn sends you to the "legacy" control pane on the Desktopl where you would have landed in the first place, if you had just clicked on the "Language" item in the search results. It's a mess.

Have there been changes to this behavior in the RTM version?

[BajiRav]

The current separation between the "Modern" computer settings and the legacy control panel is idiotic.

If you search for "language" and then click on the first result ("switch input language"), the settings charm slides in from the right, where you really can't do anything if you only have one input language enabled.

If you click on the second result, ("General"), you're sent to the "Modern" language settings which in turn sends you to the "legacy" control pane on the Desktopl where you would have landed in the first place, if you had just clicked on the "Language" item in the search results. It's a mess.

Have there been changes to this behavior in the RTM version?

I don't know I am waiting for MSDN version.

[The Rev]

The current separation between the "Modern" computer settings and the legacy control panel is idiotic.

If you search for "language" and then click on the first result ("switch input language"), the settings charm slides in from the right, where you really can't do anything if you only have one input language enabled.

If you click on the second result, ("General"), you're sent to the "Modern" language settings which in turn sends you to the "legacy" control pane on the Desktopl where you would have landed in the first place, if you had just clicked on the "Language" item in the search results. It's a mess.

Have there been changes to this behavior in the RTM version?

I love how people ask questions about the RTM version, when legally speaking, none of us should have it. Not even M$ fanboys like Paul Thurrott and that dude that webcasts from his mother's basement... Chris something?

[notuptome2004]

I love how people ask questions about the RTM version, when legally speaking, none of us should have it. Not even M$ fanboys like Paul Thurrott and that dude that webcasts from his mother's basement... Chris something?

Well Paul gets Copies early on and i think the other guy you mean this guy http://en.wikipedia....i/Chris_Pirillo and he owns his own home and has a very damn hot Wife named Dianna so No he dont live in his Moms basment and he dont get windows for free nore new version for free he actually has to pay for them same with Mac stuff

[devHead]

Settings seems a much logical place for it, to me. After all, you're setting the system to shut down.

Not that it's completely illogical, but considering that two of the other 'charms' in the bar are hardly ever needed (Devices - which doesn't mean what you think it means, and Sharing.) Both could easily be relegated to another location and put at least a Power 'charm' there for setting standby, restart, shutdown, etc. To me, that would be more useful. Especially than the Devices charm. What is that for exactly? You click it and it says Desktop. Nothing can be sent from the desktop.

[Dot Matrix]

I haven't signed in to Neowin in years but I had to reply to this. As someone in IT, I think you might be missing the point. We are adaptive to change. We didn't get into this business because we hate technology or change. Why would you even be in IT if you hate computers and new software or hardware or any number of new and interesting things that it brings? It's not us you should be worried about, it's the millions of office workers, moms, grandparents, clueless teenagers, and bosses who come to US to with frustrations and problems with change this drastic and counter-intuative. Windows 8 is going to be a support nightmare, you know it and I know it. There's no intuitive interface there whatsoever, it takes ages to locate old control panel settings, the will it or won't it work attitude of mouse gestures to bring up basic function like searching or applications is a awful.

There are some really nice things hidden under all that Metro bull**** like the new Windows Explorer and Task Manager, but that's just it: It's hidden under bull**** that didn't need to be part of a desktop OS in the first place.

But we all know Microsoft will call it a success because millions of licences will be sold, because there will be no other option. Something has to go on PCs.

I have yet to see a reason why it will be a support nightmare. People learned to use the Windows 7 desktop, and people will learn to use the new Start. If you have sat down with the OS with an open mind like I have, and suspended belief, then you would realize there is a lot to like about the new Dashboard when compared with the legacy Start Menu, even on desktops. This is going to be Windows going forward. There is nothing saying that "Modern" can't be used on the desktop. Give it time to advance.