Windows 8 is the first OS that made me downgrade


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Support : Ok take your finger and press the power button once with your finger on the front of the computer.

Customer: Ok I did that and the screen went black and the power button is blinking.

Support: Ok now press the power button again to turn the computer back on. This time the computer should boot back up

Customer: Ok I pressed the power button and my screen came back with all my icons

Support: Already? Wow that was fast.

Customer: It didn't boot up it just appeared.

Support: Oh it must have just gone to sleep.

The default configuration of the power button on most computers is not to turn off but to sleep the machine.

Only on laptops. And not all of them, and not from microsoft, from crappy oem's who reconfigure the defaults to make it seem like a pos Samsung can boot up in 3 seconds and restore documents even after you pull the power and battery with a renamed hybrid sleep. Which apparently no one else has...

Either way, its easy enough to guide them through the charms. Restarts are the least problem on support anyway, they've usually done that when they call and if they need to do it because of an install, guess what, the install will do the restart.

HawkMan: "Ok ma'am I want you to slide your mouse to the top right of the screen and a menu will pop out"

Customer: "I saw something pop out but it's gone now"

HawkMan: "Ok, try again this time move your mouse down afterwards vertically and click on the Settings button"

Customer: "Every time I try to click on the Settings button the menu disappears!"

HawkMan: "That is because you're not dragging the mouse down from the corner perfectly vertical"

Customer: "I am!"

5 Minutes later...

Customer: "Ok I'm in Settings"

HawkMan: "Ok.. *palmface* now click on Restart and wait for your computer to reboot"

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now go to "Power", down at the bottom, click that, and then press restart."

Customer: "Ok."

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now go to settings down at the bottom, click that, and then press restart."

Customer: "Ok."

You don't expect her to remember that, do you? Pretty sure with that sort of explanation you'd see her calling you every time she wants to restart or shut down the computer

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now go to "Power", down at the bottom, click that, and then press restart."

Customer: "Ok."

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "Whats the windows key, I don't have one of those"

How many normal users actually know what the windows key is? If I told anyone else in my house to hit the Windows key they would ask me what that is. And then you expect them to use that in combination with another key? :laugh:

My brother needs repeated examples on how to copy pictures from one folder to another. My dad is even worse. Can I direct them to you when they have questions about how to do something in Windows 8?

  • Like 1

What's frustrating about this particular issue is that it was a solved problem. This was easy enough to do on Windows 7. You could argue whether the placement was logical or not, but it worked well enough. Microsoft managed to actively make things worse in this regard.

And, by the way, it even worked rather consistently across different operating systems. On Windows, you'd click the Windows logo in the corner and click shutdown. On a Mac, you'd click the Apple logo in the corner, then click shutdown.

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "Whats the windows key, I don't have one of those"

How many normal users actually know what the windows key is? If I told anyone else in my house to hit the Windows key they would ask me what that is. And then you expect them to use that in combination with another key? :laugh:

My brother needs repeated examples on how to copy pictures from one folder to another. My dad is even worse. Can I direct them to you when they have questions about how to do something in Windows 8?

Seriously!? Every ****ing keyboard comes with a Windows key. Even my Mom knows what the Windows Key is. "Press the button on the keyboard with the Windows logo on it."

"Click the Settings charm and then Power" (or "Click Settings in the right-hand bar that you bring up, and then Power" if they don't happen to know the word "charm")

The charms are used for so much in the OS that you more or less have to know how to access them to do much of anything, which means that anyone who's been using it for any length of time will already know. There's a reason it's the one thing that's directly shown in the setup animations.

Seriously!? Every ****ing keyboard comes with a Windows key. Even my Mom knows what the Windows Key is. "Press the button on the keyboard with the Windows logo on it."

I'm happy for you and your mom. Meanwhile, I have a realistic view at how inept people can be at using their own computers. You're giving the masses of people who will be using Windows 8 far to much credit.

This is a good example.

Doesn't it bother you guys to know that Microsoft devoted so many resources and money to come up with something that people tend to avoid 95% of the time? That the developers purposely sacrificed the desktop experience in regards to Metro, a UI catered for touchscreen? Shouldn't they have focused more on where the majority of the users will be spending their time?

This by no means will always be the situation, as developers bring more and more quality apps to the store that people will install because they will be useful, many people will spend more time with Metro IMHO.

I'm happy for you and your mom. Meanwhile, I have a realistic view at how inept people can be at using their own computers. You're giving the masses of people who will be using Windows 8 far to much credit.

And you're giving them too little credit. Believe me, I see people everyday at school using computers as they should with no trouble at all. I dunno where you hang out, but here, people are more than a bunch of Cro-Magnons beating their keyboards with their fists hoping something happens.

Why are people creating fictional scenarios of how 'laymen' users are going to have problems with Windows 8? Wait a few months until you get your first Windows 8 support call, then post about it. There's no point in making up stories about how you think users are going to react.

new features well to start with

- Start screen, easier and more organized view of your favorite pinned apps (don't compare it to all apps, that's another layer in). With the ability to sort your apps into named groups.

Bingo. People don't realize that the Windows 7 "Start Menu" was just a single list of programs. What they *think* is the "Start Menu" is actually the Program Groups, which you can only get to by clicking "All Programs". Windows 8 Start Screen has an "All Apps" menu option that brings you to the Program Groups like in Windows 7, but Windows 8 also gives you the ability to group and organize items "pinned to Start", which Windows 7 DOES NOT allow you to do. Windows 8 gives you MORE functionality--not less.

There was nothing stopping Microsoft forking Windows and making a touch orientated version a la iOS. Apple did it. Or they could have just used the Windows Phone 7 code base. There's no excuse for forcing this on everyone.

Other than hundreds of millions and maybe billions of dollars to support. Yeah, nothing is stopping them.

Once a decent range of software is available and people have had plenty of time to get used to it then theoretically yes. That is currently not the case so people are going to be forced to switch between them.

Those people you describe aren't the ones who need help and aren't going to call tech support in the first place to find out how to use something (they're going to just search the Internet to find out).

There is a much larger group of people (some older, some that just never "got into" computers) that are going to struggle with the change and are going to need support.

Windows 8 still has many weeks/days or at least multiple months for general release. If you follow the developer community beat, you know that the apps are coming. There will be plenty of apps by the time it is actually available for general public. Even in that sense, how many apps does a normal user need?

Browser - check

Chat - Check

Email - Check

Music - Check

Video+Photo - Check

Contacts/Calendar - Check

I know in this thread I have mentioned Apple and Mac OS X Mountain Lion a lot and I've gotten some heat for keep bringing it up. But if you look at how users have responded to Mountain Lion's changes you can see that they love it across the board. Potential customers love it, current customers love it. It provided like Windows 8 a faster boot up and shutdown and generally feels faster and it added new Apps like iMessage that let you message iPhones for free over the internet. It also brought notification centre and a bunch of other features.

No one is complaining about Mountain Lion it has received universal praise across the board from users and reviewers. Why couldn't Windows 8 been like that?

Has anyone noticed that since about Windows XP that Microsoft has mostly stopped adding new applications to the OS? They added Notepad, Paint, Calculator. These are useful applications but since about XP apps like these have not been included in the OS. In-fact they even removed a lot of apps since Windows XP. Apps like built in messaging. Metro now has Apps like Messaging which should have been desktop apps in Vista or Windows 7.

If Microsoft had included the Weather App, Stocks, Messages, A new Photo gallery system and other features like that as desktop applications shipping with the OS I think that would have pleased current users enough. The Windows 7 desktop is very powerful and it works great it just needed a few tweaks and some fresh applications in my opinion.

How many times Apple users have given pass to Apple eventhough there were solid problems with their software/hardware? Lion is a very recent example of this. Yeah those guys complain for a few mins about shape/colors of trivial things such as scrollbars or the traffic lights and then open their wallets. Microsoft doesn't get as much wiggle room as Apple does. They get roasted for simpler decisions of restricting browser on Windows RT when Apple has been doing it since first iOS release.

What games are you playing? I tried Diablo III and LA Noire and a couple of others and they all crashed. Was using the AMD Catalyst release preview driver, but it may have been my soundcard that was the problem...

Also felt weird using Zune on Windows 8 to sync my phone. Will be interesting to see what the new version looks like

Are you referring to Zune software or hardware?

Zune Software

Here's the bottom line.

The metro interface(or whatever they're calling it this week) is the ugliest turd ever released by ms. Everybody knows this to be fact, but certain elements will never admit it. So be it, and frankly, who cares.

That said, there is nothing really wrong with win8 that can't be fixed with a couple addons etc. Indeed, I never even see the metro screen(using rp). My setup looks and acts pretty much exactly as it did with 7.

Continuity....that's the word for today....

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Windows key, and "I" at the same time for me?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now go to "Power", down at the bottom, click that, and then press restart."

Customer: "Ok."

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you go to the desktop and press Alt+F4?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now select shutdown and press OK"

Customer: "Ok."

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you go to the desktop and press Alt+F4?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan: "Ok, now select shutdown and press OK"

Customer: "Ok."

HawkMan: "Ma'am, can you press the Control key, the Alt key and the Delete key all at the same time for me?"

Customer: "OK. Done"

HawkMan:"Ok, now select the Power icon in the lower right corner, then press restart."

Customer: "Ok."

easy-peasy

The metro interface(or whatever they're calling it this week) is the ugliest turd ever released by ms. Everybody knows this to be fact, but certain elements will never admit it. So be it, and frankly, who cares.

Some 'elements' as you call me, actually think that this is the best UI design to come out in a long while - you shouldn't presume to know what others are thinking, because unsurprisingly you are wrong.

Er, no, I'm not. Not even a little.

So you aren't telling me that I'm not a fan of the design language formerly known as 'Metro'? Seriously?

Just tried Win 8 RTM on a VMware machine and honestly I could not find single thing that would make me more productive in my line work.

I guess Windows is now just for browsing, checking email and looking at full screen videos :rofl: .

Cheers

Just tried Win 8 RTM on a VMware machine and honestly I could not find single thing that would make me more productive in my line work.

I guess Windows is now just for browsing, checking email and looking at full screen videos :rofl: .

Cheers

It's why I made the comment I did above. Power users are prideful in the extreme - most also have the sensitivity of House (or Joy Behar).

It's why I made the comment I did above. Power users are prideful in the extreme - most also have the sensitivity of House (or Joy Behar).

Oh no! This guy said the worst profanity that mankind has ever produced! Joy Behar! Oops, I said it too. Where's the swear filter? LOL

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    • I'm not happy with myself for it, but I've gone and got hold of it. Just another 45 minutes and I'll be Bond, James Bond. In my defence, IO's Hitman series is awesome, and I'm a sucker for 007. So while it might seem a bit simplified compared to Hitman, I'm sure I'll be right at home.
    • Or just check the script yourself ^^. I hate having a Microsoft account tied to my windows install.
    • 007 First Light review: Satisfying spy adventure that James Bond needed by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe I have fond memories of classic James Bond games from the Electronic Arts era. Using high-tech gadgets, sneaking into parties, and dispatching bad guys were wildly exciting activities for my younger self. In recent years, Bond games have entirely disappeared, alongside the super spy genre. Fast forward to 2020, imagine my surprise when IO Interactive announced it had secured the Bond IP to make a game. Considering the studio’s Hitman history, this project is one I keenly kept an eye on. Six years later, 007 First Light is finally here, and after spending time inside this globe-trotting adventure, I can safely say that my excitement for this developer’s take on this universe was not unfounded. IO has taken lessons it has learned from Hitman and combined them with what I would expect from a directed cinematic experience like James Bond. I have refrained from mentioning major plot points to save you from story spoilers in this review. This is an original story that doesn’t tie into any movies, so there isn’t an expectation of knowing the backstory or the decades of movies either. Bond, James Bond When 007 First Light begins, Bond is just Bond. There isn’t a spy angle, fancy gadgets, or even a secret mission. The introductory mission is framed to show how James Bond handled himself and how he does not care about the odds when it comes to saving lives. It’s a gorgeous level as well, showing off an island scattered with cliffs in the middle of a storm. Looking back, this is probably the best-looking level in the game, with IO showing off all its abilities with its custom engine, Glacier. But my favorite ended up being the follow-up to this level. Once the United Kingdom's foreign intelligence agency, MI6, recruits our daring youngster into its super-spy “00” program, training begins. However, instead of treading through the same tutorial missions where the game teaches you to run and jump and drive, IO opted for a montage, and it’s amazing. The scenes cut between Bond practicing and improving his marksmanship, parkour, hand-to-hand combat, and driving as weeks go by in his training. What impressed me here was the lack of any loading screens or stutters as scenes instantly switched to different locations entirely, as if I was watching a movie. This creativity is a trend I noticed in most levels, where there is some sort of gameplay or choreography mechanic being introduced to keep things interesting. Soon, the rest of the cast is introduced, bringing other agents that our favorite secret agent will be working with, the scientists and engineers that build MI6’s spy gadgets, as well as higher-ranking officers that either appreciate or (at best) tolerate Bond’s rebellious attitude. 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Plenty of Possibilities The third-person style of IO Interactive fits this role quite well. Bond is presented as a master at hand-to-hand combat as well as firearms, while also having a knack for being stealthy when required. Most sections of missions have a lot of freedom. This means I could beat up every goon and security guard on the way to an objective, slip past them without sounding a single alarm, or do a mix of both. My sessions usually end up with the third option because I tend to be impatient about waiting for a patrol to move. Drawing from its Hitman genes, the developer almost always gives multiple routes for going through missions. Levels can be massive, sometimes sporting hundreds of NPCs going their own ways and having conversations. If my objective is to break into a security room on the third floor, I could look around for roof access, eavesdrop on conversations to find out where someone lost a key, create a distraction and pickpocket a guard for a keycard, sneak in through the vents, or simply kick down the offending door. I enjoyed the variety on offer, especially because the same solutions didn’t usually show up in different missions. Before heading out into a secret MI6 escapade, the gadget specialist of the branch walks Bond through the organization's latest and greatest achievements. This can be cool little devices like a laser built into the watch, a phone that fires poison darts, or a camera that emits a powerful shockwave. The choice of what can be taken into the mission is up to the player. I could usually find fresh routes or get out of tough situations with a punch or two, so I never had the feeling of missing out by not choosing the right equipment. It’s still a fun practice. Choosing the armaments before a mission enhanced the super spy feeling quite a bit. As I mentioned, stealth comes in as a very viable option for most of the missions, letting Bond sneak past foes or knock them out silently. While it is satisfying to clear entire areas of goons and walk away without any alarms, the way of accomplishing this could have been done better. Bond can lure enemies, sneak up and knock them out, or use a gadget to disorient them before dealing a nasty blow. Bodies cannot be moved or hidden afterward either. It’s a very simple system, which I wish were more exciting to pull off. Perhaps more stealth-orientated gadgets, distraction options, or multi-takedowns could have helped here, I think. Getting caught while attempting to be in stealth does not mean a game over. Other than getting into a fist fight, an interesting twist of 007 First Light is the bluffing option. While an enemy is confused as to what you are doing in a restricted location, Bond has the option to improvise and persuade them that you are exactly where you’re supposed to be. These are fun little dynamic interactions with unique dialog depending on the mission and location, giving a few extra moments for Bond to go past suspicious guards smoothly. It’s the first time I’ve witnessed this system in a game, and I hope to see more. License to Kill Bond isn’t just dealing with security guards or civilians. From time to time, entire gangs of gun-toting mercenaries show up in levels looking to take down our protagonist. It is then that License to Kill mode is activated for Bond, letting him use firearms with no restrictions. I was surprised by just how tight gunplay is in 007 First Light. The weapons feel powerful and satisfying to fire, with single bullets capable of taking down an enemy with a headshot. 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These usually end up with high-octane chases or driving sections, offering the chance to witness chaining explosions, hails of gunfire, and scripted parkour scenes that remind me of Mission Impossible movies more than Bond. Elements like seeing James Bond jump out of a plane without a parachute or drive through buildings in London inside a trash truck were fantastic and always left me at a high point when finishing a mission. The classic James Bond theme is sprinkled in here too, which only happens a handful of times in the game, but at just the right moments. Visuals and Performance Compared to Unreal Engine 5 games we are seeing nowadays, 007 First Light isn’t flexing a huge amount of realism when it comes to graphics. The models, textures, and effects all feel a little dated, with the starting mission that I mentioned being the most visually striking. However, the complete lack of stutters, the hundreds of NPCs that can be on screen without a single hitch, massive sandbox levels, and smooth transitions between them all play a part in making this an immensely immersive and complex experience. The in-engine cutscenes are gorgeous as well, offering an upgraded visual style and model detail over the gameplay sections. Animations are one aspect that jumps out at me about any new game, and First Light has nailed what a third-person action game should feel like. Walking, sneaking, and running all have a heaviness to them that I appreciate. Whenever Bond moves past a wall or a ledge, his arms reach out to lightly hold those structures until he moves away. NPCs actually react to my character and move out of the way. Even during melee combat or takedown animations, the fists impacting a body or a head hitting a wall all have that same weight. Even the more frivolous animations, like catching a gun in midair or chucking an empty one at a goon (yes, you can do that), are satisfying to pull off. Of course, the in-engine cutscene animations are remarkably well done too, with facial animations and the upgraded model details improving my engagement with the characters. I have an AMD Radeon RX 9070 XT 16GB paired with an eight-core Ryzen 7 3700X and 32GB of RAM, with the game running at 1440p resolution. Deciding to completely max out all the graphics options gave me a range of frame rates between 60 and 100 depending on the scene and level. While I did try to enable AMD FSR, which bumped up the frame rates by a good 20% at Quality mode, IO Interactive’s implementation of the technology wasn’t that great. Every corner and edge in levels began shimmering, and I was also seeing smearing issues in fast-moving sections. The title seemingly uses the older generation FSR 3.1 and not the machine learning-assisted FSR 4, leading to these artifacts. Unfortunately, there isn't a way to manually upgrade this right now either. I opted to turn off the upscaling and play the game in native 1440p to avoid problems. I would say the FPS range I was getting was an acceptable one for a single-player action game for my setup. I do wish there were an FOV slider option in the settings. While the camera is far enough back for my tastes in most situations in this third-person adventure, at times the perspective is far too close. When trying to look around quickly and spot targets, I realized I was getting a slight headache at times due to the use of an almost over-the-shoulder close-up camera. Conclusion Being James Bond in 007 First Light is a treat. Traveling around the world chasing conspiracies, using high-tech gadgets disguised as everyday accessories, and improvising on the spot to fool foes all give a fantastic feeling of being a super spy. For an origin story, IO Interactive has done a great job at introducing the character and his motives for doing what he does. The satisfying combat animation and fantastic voice acting are definitely high points, with the License to Kill moments being my favorite. Not being able to move bodies and the simplistic stealth of mechanics does hurt its presentation a little. The NPC logic and intelligence is easy to manipulate and trick, repeating the same actions over and over again if I keep making distractions. The lack of an FOV slider was also a pain (quite literally) at times, and the FSR implementation is quite poor. These are things I hope the studio will improve upon with updates. Even with its faults, IO Interactive and James Bond are a match made in heaven. The studio knows how to make a main character that oozes charm and competency while also leaning heavily into its Hitman experience to make gigantic levels with what looks like hundreds of NPCs roaming around. Being an origin story, IO’s Bond has a way to go before he becomes the highly effective agent we see in the movie world. I am hoping the studio will continue this series alongside its Hitman ventures going forward, just so we get to experience the journey for longer. 007 First Light is available on PC (Steam, Epic Games Store, and Xbox PC), Xbox Series X|S, and PlayStation 5 for $69.99. This review was conducted on the PC version of the game provided by IO Interactive.
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