Reality check - Windows 8 was not made for you

[Hell-In-A-Handbasket]

it all boils down to a lack of wanting to change how they do things. wanting to stay with what is familiar to them. and its across the board not just with power users.

[TheLegendOfMart]

The Ipad is proof that people like this direction computing is moving towards. What makes you think people are buying ipads? Businesses migrating to ipads? Is it not because they dont have to **** around with dlls,scattered files hell,inconsistent installers,rogue applications,toolbars,malware,memory hogs,incompatible software,sourcing software,computer slow downs?

If this is the case then why hasn't Apple turned OSX into IOS?

Sure its integrated some IOS features into the main desktop environment but at least Apple knows how to do it properly, not just transplant some asstastic UI over the top of Windows like Microsoft.

[winlonghorn]

I have been "supporting" windows for 20 years and am very excited to push people to winRT especially my more problematic users.... the ones who managed to still install malware/viruses after I locked their computers down or call saying I installed X app and it doesn't work, or my computer's slow. There are a millions "issues" I have had to deal with over the years and winRT will solve most of them. I will have to spend some time with them initially to get them used to it and setup their account but in the long run will be FAR better for it.

Great Point! :)

[Guest LiquidCrystalMeth]

Ok I'm game :)

I'm 31. I started playing with PC's when I was 3. I was supporting DOS environments (in a basic fashion) for my small town school that didn't have an IT staff, but well over 30 students PC's geared for specific reading test applications when I was 7. I moved on to knowing how to operate Apple II's shortly after, and then onto Commodore 64.

I left high school early to work for the State of Washington. I then started and ran my own PC business building and repairing PC's. From XP on I've been in every tech beta, including some of the more hush hush groups. I've spent the last 4 years working almost exclusively at Microsoft (minus a brief one week stint doing some work for Comcast).

I have direct MS experience, direct PC experience spanning 25 years, and I love Windows 8.

So what does that do to your theory? I ask this honestly since you proposed that anyone who is big into IT hates it...

EDIT- PGHammer - Bingo. Real IT people embrace platforms, even if they are not their favorites as we need to be ready for any and all situations. Change is a constant in everything, especially in our business.

To the detractors, if you can't roll with changes and embrace them and work with them, then why are you in IT to begin with? ;)

So finally, according to your own admissions, youre a Pro whatever MS does stooge?

Brave outing yourself, ill give you that :)

I have been involved in IT since before DOS was even a twinkle in Bills eye. In fact i have a similar early computer experience timeline to Bills. Starting with building my own.

Ive worked in a myriad of IT disciplines doing things from writing and compiling code for SCO Linux to working at HP in R&D back in the 80's, to gettign more involved in security and penetration testing in the 90's when businesses and especially banks where just starting to get on the internet. Ive written code, white papers and even flown half way across the world to test rogue batches of motherboards. I'd list 32 years of experience but it would get boring.

So i have been around a bit.

Im not adverse to progress, i embrace it, but Windows 8 does not fit this description, its a far too late marketing ploy at the expense and to the dismay of its customers and those who have to support it. Its an attempt at an ecosystem, which i loathe Apple for.

I once got offered a job by MS, about 12 years ago, went out to the MS compound here in North Ryde in Sydney, Australia, sat down and had a great meeting/interview, great people. Easily best meeting/interview ever. The only problem was when it come down to brass tacks and asked what i was looking for in terms of remuneration, only to have them slide their offer across the table. On that paper was about half what i was currently on, and my current employer was just a medium sized ISP at the time. Came to learn that if you wanted real MS money, and im talking fair compensation, you had to, at the time, work for them anywhere but here, they just wouldnt pay in Australia.

Despite this i am a proud Windows user.. I have my Linux days and love it, but my main OS for day to day productivity is Windows.

Dont get me wrong, despite this Windows 8 debacle, and this is the 1st time ive ever loathed a Microsoft product, i do hope they figure out where they went wrong and fix it. The only thing worse than Windows 8 is if they dont acknowledge their users concerns and admit they were wrong. Could be a boon for Linux finally

[rhianntp]

ill tell you what else was not made for me.. neowin forums...censorship out of control...our thread last night was "cleaned and closed"... cleaned ?? we were pretty civil.. how ridiculous

[winlonghorn]

time will tell. there are enough of us working out there that will not accept these changes (for reasons beyond our control) in corporate environments etc. Given the restrictive internet policies of many corporations, you have to wonder how a content driven OS is going to work without any content getting through. Obviously we are idiots for identifying these issues and should not voice opinion as we have no clue about how things work/will happen, as we've not seen it all before....

if this windows8 thing was packed full of innovation and genius, then yes, it'd be great. It isn't, its a last minute botch job to try and grab some market share that was missed by a company that's consistently failed to deliver anything in time with the shifts of technology. they once ruled in the smartphone market then they proceeded to ignore the need for change and drove the platform into the floor, watching others take their foundations and build on it.

This is not the golden chalice of innovation people think it is. look at windows phone, it's doing very little in the marketplace. It's another case of this stupid interface being pushed purely on it's design merit.

like i said, lets reconvene in a year and we can discuss where you went wrong! :p :p (joke)

As far as your comment about Windows Phone, it isn't doing well because the stores and phone companies are so high on Android and iOS that they refuse to push Windows Phone. If half of the people in the world were shown what it does, they would like it. I can't tell you how many places that I called to check on Windows Phone smartphones and they respond, "Why on earth do you want a Windows Phone? Android or iOS are awesome! I love them!" lol :s Anyway, as you said, "Lets reconvene in a year and see where things are!" ;)

[rhianntp]

So finally, according to your own admissions, youre a Pro whatever MS does stooge?

Brave outing yourself, ill give you that :)

I have been involved in IT since before DOS was even a twinkle in Bills eye. In fact i have a similar early computer experience timeline to Bills. Starting with building my own.

Ive worked in a myriad of IT disciplines doing things from writing and compiling code for SCO Linux to working at HP in R&D back in the 80's, to gettign more involved in security and penetration testing in the 90's when businesses and especially banks where just starting to get on the internet. Ive written code, white papers and even flow half way across the world to test rogue batches of motherboards. I'd list 32 years of experience but it would get boring.

So i have been around a bit.

Im not adverse to progress, i embrace it, but Windows 8 does not fit this description, its a far too late marketing ploy at the expense and to the dismay of its customers and those who have to support it. Its an attempt at an ecosystem, which i loathe Apple for.

I once got offered a job by MS, about 12 years, went out to the MS compound here in North Ryde in Sydney, Australia, sat down and had a great meeting/interview, great people. Easily best meeting/interview ever. The only problem was when it come down to brass tacks and asked what i was looking for in terms of remuneration, only to have them slide their offer across the table. On that paper was about half what i was currently on, and my current employer was just a medium sized ISP at the time. Came to learn that if you wanted real MS money, and im talking fair compensation, you had to, at the time, work for them anywhere but here, they just wouldnt pay in Australia.

Despite this i am a proud Windows user.. I have my Linux days and love it, but my main OS for day to day productivity is Windows.

Dont get me wrong, despite this Windows 8 debacle, and this is the 1st time ive ever loathed a Microsoft product, i do hope they figure out where they went wrong and fix it. The only thing worse than Windows 8 is if they dont acknowledge their users concerns and admit they were wrong. Could be a boon for Linux finally

hope so

[scratch42069]

Well if Windows 8 isn't "made for me" than I guess Windows 7 and Linux distributions are because that is what I will stay with until Windows 9.

[Shane Nokes]

ill tell you what else was not made for me.. neowin forums...censorship out of control...our thread last night was "cleaned and closed"... cleaned ?? we were pretty civil.. how ridiculous

Indeed. I'm going back into lurker mode. I thought the staff here were getting better, but since they seem content to keep dinging me into oblivion I'm outta here.

[Clirion]

If this is the case then why hasn't Apple turned OSX into IOS?

Sure its integrated some IOS features into the main desktop environment but at least Apple knows how to do it properly, not just transplant some asstastic UI over the top of Windows like Microsoft.

The interesting thing about Apple is they are hiding it really well. Go ahead and hit the Launch Button. Bingo instant IOS. I am positive this is to get things ready for it to be all IOS all the time.

[efjay]

software developers with their own applications/games stores.

"cough" valve "cough" :D

[ZombieFly]

As far as your comment about Windows Phone, it isn't doing well because the stores and phone companies are so high on Android and iOS that they refuse to push Windows Phone. If half of the people in the world were shown what it does, they would like it. I can't tell you how many places that I called to check on Windows Phone smartphones and they respond, "Why on earth do you want a Windows Phone? Android or iOS are awesome! I love them!" lol :s Anyway, as you said, "Lets reconvene in a year and see where things are!" ;)

not quite. i have been on android since it arrived. previously i was on windows mobile. all i wanted was a new version of wm, it never came, i used android as a stop gap.... then nothing came, for years.

then i bought a windows phone. used it. didnt like. it couldn't do half of what android did, for my daily tasks. A basic set of requirements to be honest, couldn't be managed by an OS that was supposed to compete. I waited, upgraded it to mango. still no go on replicating my daily needs. Tried and tried to make it work for me, but it's just not up to par (for reasons i'm not going into here). Microsoft could have entered the market with all the features complete on release. then it would stand up. This is possibly why carriers aren't adopting it....

[threetonesun]

The interesting thing about Apple is they are hiding it really well. Go ahead and hit the Launch Button. Bingo instant IOS. I am positive this is to get things ready for it to be all IOS all the time.

I think Apple is going to move towards responsive application design, where the app is the same, it just functions differently depending on what it's being run on.

Maybe not, but to me that would be the ideal solution. The Desktop / Modern split on the same system still seems kludgey.

[.Neo]

The interesting thing about Apple is they are hiding it really well. Go ahead and hit the Launch Button. Bingo instant IOS. I am positive this is to get things ready for it to be all IOS all the time.

Big difference being Apple doesn't try to push Launchpad down your throat. Not in OS X Lion or OS X Mountain Lion. You can remove its Dock icon and disable the multi-touch gesture. Nor does it have a whole second set of apps that are wildly different from the desktop ones.

[winlonghorn]

not quite. i have been on android since it arrived. previously i was on windows mobile. all i wanted was a new version of wm, it never came, i used android as a stop gap.... then nothing came, for years.

then i bought a windows phone. used it. didnt like. it couldn't do half of what android did, for my daily tasks. A basic set of requirements to be honest, couldn't be managed by an OS that was supposed to compete. I waited, upgraded it to mango. still no go on replicating my daily needs. Tried and tried to make it work for me, but it's just not up to par (for reasons i'm not going into here). Microsoft could have entered the market with all the features complete on release. then it would stand up. This is possibly why carriers aren't adopting it....

Have you ever heard of "Scope Creep" when it comes to a development project? If they would have included every imaginable feature, the project would have dragged on for years (e.g. Windows Longhorn/Vista). ;) It would be way over budget and extremely late. When you are a corporation trying to compete in the marketplace, that is a very bad thing! They needed to get a competing phone on the market just like they need a competing tablet on the market (before they are pushed right out of the market permanently and become irrelevant). They will get to the point where they have all of the features that people desire. It just takes time to get the platform up to speed.

[ZombieFly]

Have you ever heard of "Scope Creep" when it comes to a development project? If they would have included every imaginable feature, the project would have dragged on for years (e.g. Windows Longhorn/Vista). ;) It would be way over budget and extremely late. When you are a corporation trying to compete in the marketplace, that is a very bad thing! They needed to get a competing phone on the market just like they need a competing tablet on the market (before they are pushed right out of the market permanently and become irrelevant). They will get to the point where they have all of the features that people desire. It just takes time to get the platform up to speed.

i have yes, but version one should have had the ability to multitask properly, the ability to stream media in the background (i've forgotten exactly what this issue is, but it had to do with a licence.. last.fm etc couldn't work properly) and the ability to change the volume for individual tasks instead of system wide (i.e. lower notification vol and media independently)... and as for that zune mangled management application.....(i could go on)

on release, it was sub-par. windows 8, sub par. releasing something that is not fit for purpose seems to be microsoft's new mantra. I'll never buy into that. It wouldn't have taken much to move things on a bit in both platforms but they consistently fail to hit the mark. It's almost like they have no idea what they are doing, relying solely on an interface that slides around a bit as the staple feature for everything IMHO

[BoDEAN]

I'm really tired of reading topics from day to day about people complaining metro/modern etc.

Agree'd. Please stop posting them.

[Clirion]

Big difference being Apple doesn't try to push Launchpad down your throat. Not in OS X Lion or OS X Mountain Lion. You can remove its Dock icon and disable the multi-touch gesture. Nor does it have a whole second set of apps that are wildly different from the desktop ones.

Yep I am aware of that. However, I have a feeling it is coming, just in the next "major" release, Like OS11 (or OSX 11) :)

Again this is just me watching it.

[Depicus]

Have you ever heard of "Scope Creep" when it comes to a development project? If they would have included every imaginable feature, the project would have dragged on for years (e.g. Windows Longhorn/Vista). ;) It would be way over budget and extremely late. When you are a corporation trying to compete in the marketplace, that is a very bad thing! They needed to get a competing phone on the market just like they need a competing tablet on the market (before they are pushed right out of the market permanently and become irrelevant). They will get to the point where they have all of the features that people desire. It just takes time to get the platform up to speed.

Microsoft employ thousands of developers, there is no way they should be releasing a catchup product that was so poor. If you are playing catchup you need to be as good or better than your competition and these first impressions linger. I still hear the question "Is this better than Vista".... another Vista won't kill them (OEM sales will make sure of that) but selling into markets where they don't have a monopoly becomes harder. I wonder if WP7 would have sold better if there were no Vista.

I am not a fan of metro for work, and I really like the speed advancements in 8 but things don't look good if the normally pro Neowin has so much negative feedback for 8

[hagjohn]

This whole it's "just like Me and Vista" is dumb. Anyone who lived through the both of them, know that this isn't even comparable. Techies spouting such words is embarrassing.

There's nothing technically wrong with Win8, that I can see. You may not like Metro (or whatever it is today) or the lack of a start menu, but it's a solid OS that does perform very well.

[ZombieFly]

This whole it's "just like Me and Vista" is dumb. Anyone who lived through the both of them, know that this isn't even comparable. Techies spouting such words is embarrassing.

There's nothing technically wrong with Win8, that I can see. You may not like Metro (or whatever it is today) or the lack of a start menu, but it's a solid OS that does perform very well.

lol, the only embarrassing thing here is you thinking that there is nothing wrong with win8. what exactly are you comparing it to? windows 7 would be a good comparison, as that's the current windows os. Now list me the things that are technically right with windows 8 and why they were wrong in windows 7. how is a half complete tablet os welded into half of windows 7 a good thing? if you understood the technical aspects, you wouldn't make such a crazy statement.

how can you compare a half built tablet os which the manufacturer admits is in it's early stages to a fully fledged previous release and then say there's nothing technically wrong with it? ... the comparison itself is technically wrong.

this discussion is now breaking down. most of the commenters had valid points to discuss, now it's just becoming silly.

I dont have much else to talk about here, so maybe i'll see you again in a year or so when we're discussing how great things are with windows 8? ;)

[x-byte]

So, after almost 2 decades of progressive evolution for its OS functionalities, Microsoft is now downgrading such functionalities to try and sell its main product only to a minority of the non-PC oriented userbase of Windows?

Oh wow, that's really refreshing, inspiring and interesting. At least now I know that Ballmer is the one that could really succeed in what Gates could have never achieved: bringing Microsoft to its knees....

Hmm, let's look at the "downgrades" for the desktop...

- Better multi-monitor support with separated taskbar handling and spanned wallpapers

- New taskmanager

- New file transfer with pause/resume transfer

Two of them have been the most wanted feature since almost Windows 95.

It's really tragic that so many techies doesn't see how important and necessary Windows 8 really is. Unifying the experience across devices is something we in the future is going to have and need. Why should any device with the same product behave differently? Embrace it and you will see how good Windows 8 really is.

[Omen1393]

It seems a lot of people don't understand that with Windows 8, you need to decide which apps you want to use in Metro, and which apps you want to use in the desktop. Both are fully supported by the OS, it's just that MS has it setup for the non-power users by default. Just change the default apps, and you should be fine :), it's not a big deal.

I'd be willing to bet that within a year we will be able to do side by side metro apps along with Metro apps on multiple monitors. WinRT is a 1.0 product, and like all of Microsoft's 1.0 products, they take some time to evolve.

[M4nB3arP1g]

I have nothing against Windows 8, I am not sure if I am going to upgrade to it yet though, if it becomes available on my DreamSpark account before it is disabled (I graduated this spring but my account is still active) I may try it. One thing I will be doing is removing all Metro apps and just having a desktop button on the start screen because I have no use for Metro stuff I will just live in the desktop and use it like Windows 7.

[Guest LiquidCrystalMeth]

Hmm, let's look at the "downgrades" for the desktop...

- Better multi-monitor support with separated taskbar handling and spanned wallpapers

- New taskmanager

- New file transfer with pause/resume transfer

Two of them have been the most wanted feature since almost Windows 95.

It's really tragic that so many techies doesn't see how important and necessary Windows 8 really is. Unifying the experience across devices is something we in the future is going to have and need. Why should any device with the same product behave differently? Embrace it and you will see how good Windows 8 really is.

I have had all of those "downgrades" or "enhancements" for years with free 3rd party addons, which, i might add have been developed farmore than if Microsoft had included them in the OS

So what youre saying now is that Microsoft Windows 8 is fabulous because it finally included "downgrades" or "enhancements" i have had for years with free 3rd party addons...

Wow, Windows 8 is truly revolutionary!!!!

I might also point out yet another flaw in your argument, those free 3rd party addons have been developed/bug tracked far more than if Microsoft had included them in the OS.....

Even im getting tired of shooting fish in a barrel

Time to go another site that isnt Win8 fanboy rich for a few days