Hitler clothing store opens

[Hum]

The owner of an Indian clothing store said Wednesday that he would only change its name from "Hitler" if he was compensated for re-branding costs, amid a growing row over the new shop.

The outlet, which sells Western men's wear, opened 10 days ago in Ahmedabad city in the western state of Gujarat with "Hitler" written in big letters over the front and with a Nazi swastika as the dot on the "i".

"I will change it (the name) if people want to compensate me for the money we have spent -- the logo, the hoarding, the business cards, the brand," Rajesh Shah told AFP.

He put the total costs at about 150,000 rupees ($2,700).

Shah insisted that until the store opened he did not know who Adolf Hitler was and that Hitler was a nickname given to the grandfather of his store partner because "he was very strict".

"I didn't know how much the name would disturb people," he told AFP by telephone from Ahmedabad.

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[Aethec]

The dot of the I is a swatiska and he didn't know about Adolf Hitler?

Sounds legit...

[AsherGZ]

I don't get why the store's name would disturb people, especially in India. The name Hitler's basically a synonym for extremely strict people in India and Pakistan. Even though most people don't know who Hitler was. I remember back in middle school we used to call one of our pricipals Hitler behind her back. Infact i've heard the name used in the exact same context many times in countless bollywood movies. And yeah seems a little fishy that the owner didn't know who Hitler was given the swastika as the dot for the i.

[Growled Member]

So why did he use a swastika along with the name Hitler? Hmm.

[Hum]

^ The swastika was originally a old Hindu/India symbol.

The Nazis stole it.

The swastika is an extremely powerful symbol. The Nazis used it to murder millions of people, but for centuries it had positive meanings.

The swastika is an ancient symbol that has been used for over 3,000 years. (That even predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh!) Artifacts such as pottery and coins from ancient Troy show that the swastika was a commonly used symbol as far back as 1000 BCE.

During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika was used by many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe.

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm

[Hum]

Owner will rename 'Hitler' clothing shop in India

The owner of the "Hitler" clothing shop in western India says he will remove the sign and rename his store after hearing people's complaints.

Shah said he received dozens of phone calls asking that he rename the shop. Israel's consul general in Mumbai had also asked state officials to intervene.

Shah says he didn't know about Hitler's history, but people in the city say the name was a marketing gimmick.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/04/owner-will-rename-hitler-clothing-shop-in-india/?test=latestnews#ixzz25VZtI9X2

[DeadEndAccount]

"Shah says he didn't know about Hitler's history"

Bullcrap - he knew very well who Hitler was; you're telling me that someone doesn't know about the guy who killed over 6 million people - what next, he doesn't know who Stalin was or Pol Pot or Mao?

[Duffydemon]

I remember there was Neo Nazi party in India too. Indians are crazy about skin color. But this is just.... :/

[theyarecomingforyou]

Israel's consul general in Mumbai had also asked state officials to intervene.

Israel has hijacked the holocaust and continues to act as if Jews were the only people affected by it. Millions upon millions of non-Jews - from homosexuals to gypsies - were also killed and that should not be forgotten. It is completely unnecessary and inappropriate for Israel to intervene in the naming of a random store in India. And it's particularly hypocritical of Israel with the atrocities it is committing against the Palestinian people, which bear many similarities to Nazi Germany.

Is the store name in poor taste? Without a doubt, although it doesn't seem the naming was malicious. But as a society we need to stop putting so much emphasis on words and symbols of a bygone era. Such symbolism needs to be re-appropriated so that we can move on, rather than being bound by our past. The swastika used to be symbol of peace and it can be again. And in India the name Hitler doesn't hold the same significance as in the west and that should be considered a good thing. We should never forgot about the horrors of Nazism but we need to stop being held hostage by the past.

[Descartes]

^ The swastika was originally a old Hindu/India symbol.

The Nazis stole it.

The one he used is an encircled and rotated by 45 degrees swastika, which is reminiscent of the version that the Nazis used, as opposed to these. I don't believe it was a coincidence.

[Japlabot]

[drivelling bullcrap]

^ The swastika was originally a old Hindu/India symbol.

...

Thanks for sharing the news Hum & The history of the Swatiska, I am well aware of it's origins, the Nazi swatiska is very distinct from a Hindu swatiska (and it is not a "India symbol" either) because of the way that it is typical styled with black, bold, defined lines, on a 45 degree angle and often with a white background in the outline of a circle.

It is too much similarity to have both the name "Hitler" and the swastika in the same style as the Nazi swastika to make an accidental link. There are photos of the logo in the source article if you want to take a closer look.

theyarecomingforyou, your comments are really stupid to turn this into a subject about Jews, even though this is about a Store in India & Nazism. Nazism offends a whole range of people (From Gypsies and Homosexuals as you mentioned to people who are against Human Suffering) not just offensive to Jews (who suffered the most), and you are the only one to make the connection that the offense is only to Jews exclusively, nobody else has said this but you, so it doesn't make sense to say this.

[theyarecomingforyou]

The crimes against the Jewish people in WWII were horrific, reprehensible and absolutely unacceptable - I cannot be any clearer about that. But that doesn't mean we should throw objectivity out the window.

theyarecomingforyou, your comments are really stupid to turn this into a subject about Jews, even though this is about a Store in India & Nazism.

I was responding to the mention of Israel in the article, which is completely on-topic.

Nazism offends a whole range of people (From Gypsies and Homosexuals as you mentioned to people who are against Human Suffering) not just offensive to Jews (who suffered the most), and you are the only one to make the connection that the offense is only to Jews exclusively

Actually, the way that Israel responds to anything related to Nazism, the Holocaust or Jewish hate crimes entirely validates my claim and it has been given special treatment by the western media. Notice how you rarely see criticism from Poland mentioned in articles, a country that suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Charisma
: Removed reference to a deleted post.

[error404ts]

streetw0lf's post was removed, but the war crimes committed by the Japanese were also an atrocity before and during WWII. theyarecomingforyou made very valid points.

[Vykranth]

Actually, the way that Israel responds to anything related to Nazism, the Holocaust or Jewish hate crimes entirely validates my claim and it has been given special treatment by the western media. Notice how you rarely see criticism from Poland mentioned in articles, a country that suffered greatly at the hands of the Nazis.

Well, the article states at the end

The restaurant owner eventually agreed to change the name after protests by the Israeli embassy, Germany and the US Anti-Defamation League.

I am really not surprised that Germany lodged a complain too: the subject is extremely sensitive in Germany.

Is the store name in poor taste? Without a doubt, although it doesn't seem the naming was malicious. But as a society we need to stop putting so much emphasis on words and symbols of a bygone era. Such symbolism needs to be re-appropriated so that we can move on, rather than being bound by our past. The swastika used to be symbol of peace and it can be again. And in India the name Hitler doesn't hold the same significance as in the west and that should be considered a good thing. We should never forgot about the horrors of Nazism but we need to stop being held hostage by the past.

I am sorry but no, really no. First, this is not at all a bygone era. There are still plenty of segregation, of racism, of anti-semitism, of nazism all around. The same scapegoating of other group These same words that were used between 1933 and 1945 still kill today in 2012.

Secondly, what Hum posted regarding the origin of the swastika is quite true However, the Nazis have tainted and corrupted that symbol beyond any hope of repair or salvation.

The swastika is going to be remember as the symbol of a regime who made a genocide. That symbol cannot be reappropriated. This is not possible anymore.

When you think about it, how do you think that the 20th Century will be taught in 200/300 years? it will be taught as a century of near constant global war and as much as it pains me to say it, Adolf Hilter is likely to be the prominent character of that time.

There are plenty of war crimes from that era. Japanese war crimes, war crimes under the French occupation by the French government against it own people. These were terrible times and I do not know if a closure will ever be reached.

As far as the owner of the shop in India is concerned, I have high doubts that his intent was not malicious. I cannot imagine that World history is not taught in Indian schools and that the World War II does not have a large place in it. I would qualify this whole story as a cheap and particularly tasteless publicity stunt.

Edit: added a paragraph.

[Glassed Silver]

I call PR stunt.

Glassed Silver:mac

[smooth_criminal1990]

I'm surprised Hugo Boss didn't sue /s

On a more serious note, his story is a rather suspect.

[Hum]

The swastika is also a crude symbol of the Ultimate power -- seen in my present signature. ;)

[Glassed Silver]

I'm surprised Hugo Boss didn't sue /s

On a more serious note, his story is a rather suspect.

Why?

Or do you mean United Colors of Benneton?

They have a patent on scandal advertising in the fashion world. :laugh:

Glassed Silver:mac

[The Rev]

Who on earth DOESN'T know about Hitler???? Was this dude living under a rock???

[theyarecomingforyou]

Well, the article states at the end

You make a valid point, although you cannot deny the prominence given to Israel's condemnation in the article; the other protests were mentioned in passing. My point was a more general one, as this occurs regularly.

I am really not surprised that Germany lodged a complain too: the subject is extremely sensitive in Germany.

My concern is that Germany is trying to censor the past rather than to address it, which can actually make the situation worse. For instance, there are specific laws against Holocaust denial when it would be more appropriate to prosecute people under a general law for inciting racial hatred. And the swastika cannot be used in media or video games. In western media the Nazi swastika has been used in video games, movies and TV series - from sci-fi, to comedy, to serious drama - and that has done a lot to diminish the power of such symbolism; the movie Iron Sky is a very good example of that.

I am sorry but no, really no. First, this is not at all a bygone era. There are still plenty of segregation, of racism, of anti-semitism, of nazism all around.

While I agree that there are still a lot of social issues facing society - and racial hatred is far from eliminated - we're talking about something that occurred more than 65yrs ago. There isn't the same resentment towards the Japanese or Germany that there once was and such attitudes are considered unacceptable by modern societies. We should learn from the past, not hide from it. The more you fear something, the bigger it gets.

Secondly, what Hum posted regarding the origin of the swastika is quite true However, the Nazis have tainted and corrupted that symbol beyond any hope of repair or salvation.

The swastika is going to be remember as the symbol of a regime who made a genocide. That symbol cannot be reappropriated. This is not possible anymore.

I disagree. As I said, I think the media portrayal of the symbol has already done a lot to diminish its influence and don't forget there are still many people alive from WWII - it will take several generations before society can truly move on.

When you think about it, how do you think that the 20th Century will be taught in 200/300 years? it will be taught as a century of near constant global war and as much as it pains me to say it, Adolf Hilter is likely to be the prominent character of that time.

Yes, but we don't hold onto conflicts from the 17th or 18th centuries. Hitler will always be a prominent character in history - much as Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great will - but over time the emotion fades and history can be examined more objectively and critically.

Not enough is taught about why Hitler was so popular and successful. He is painted as a villain devoid of any positive attributes and that simply isn't historically accurate or helpful. If we hide from how Hitler was able to manipulate people and acquire so much influence and power then we risk repeating the same tragedies. History has been grossly oversimplified and manipulated, which only plays into the hands of extremists. And don't anybody dare construe that as me supporting Hitler, Nazis or racism in any way, shape or form - that couldn't be further from the truth. But matters like this need to be discussed objectively and fairly; falling back on emotional responses doesn't benefit society.

History is written by the victors and invariably the truth gets left behind.

[Vykranth]

You make a valid point, although you cannot deny the prominence given to Israel's condemnation in the article; the other protests were mentioned in passing. My point was a more general one, as this occurs regularly.

No, I really cannot deny the prominence given to Israel's condemnation in the article: they were the prime victims in that genocide.

Still, it is quite true that other groups: gypsies, homosexuals, communists, ... were also targets of the Nazi final solution: we must not forget that either.

My concern is that Germany is trying to censor the past rather than to address it, which can actually make the situation worse. For instance, there are specific laws against Holocaust denial when it would be more appropriate to prosecute people under a general law for inciting racial hatred. And the swastika cannot be used in media or video games. In western media the Nazi swastika has been used in video games, movies and TV series - from sci-fi, to comedy, to serious drama - and that has done a lot to diminish the power of such symbolism; the movie Iron Sky is a very good example of that.

It is not just Germany. Japan or even France still have a lot of troubles regarding their own history.

France is really catastrophic in that regard because the role was completely ambivalent: during WW2, France is at the same time, a victor, a victim and an agressor.

Just after 1945, France is supposed to be a victor thanks to Charles de Gaulle, the resistance who battled against the German occupant, everything is patriotic.

At the same time, France is a victim: the country is devasted, the prisonners of war come back home and everything is in shambles.

Yet, during 1941 and 1944, there was the Vichy government. After the 1940 Blitzkrieg, Philippe Petain, a hero of World War 1, is named prime minister and is given full power by what is left of the assembly.

He managed to negotiate an armistice with Hilter and France is divided and occupied.

During that time, the Petain government is actively collaborating with the German occupant for the Holocaust. One of the most awful example is the Vel' d'Hiv Roundup . This was a large operation to round up jews in 1942. In France, the operation was largely done by the French police under orders from the French government.

The worst part of it is that the Petain government went beyond the Nazi request: historians have found evidences that some government officials ordered children to be arrested too, and not just adults the Nazi wanted.

The role and responsability of the French state was only admitted by Jacques Chirac in 1995, 53 years later.

Newly elected President Fran?ois Hollande did a very moving speech for the 70th anniversary of the Vel d'Hiv round-up.

The worst part of it is that, when you hear the far right Front national today in 2012, accusing muslims the same way jews were scapegoated in 1933, it is really scary.

While I agree that there are still a lot of social issues facing society - and racial hatred is far from eliminated - we're talking about something that occurred more than 65yrs ago. There isn't the same resentment towards the Japanese or Germany that there once was and such attitudes are considered unacceptable by modern societies. We should learn from the past, not hide from it. The more you fear something, the bigger it gets.

Well, even if it happens 65 years ago, a lot of things today in the world are still consequences of World War 2 and the holocaust:

- the fact that Europe continued its decline after 1945

- the decolonization wars,

- the bipolar world resulting from the cold war

- ...

As far as the ressetment against Germany and Japan, there are still frictions regarding Japanese war criminals with Korea and China.

I disagree. As I said, I think the media portrayal of the symbol has already done a lot to diminish its influence and don't forget there are still many people alive from WWII - it will take several generations before society can truly move on.

Then, we have to disagree. I actually do not really wish to move on. What happened during World War 2 is probably one of the darkest part of the entire world history. There are certainly other worse things: stalinist communist regimes for example or forced colonizations and I think that these dark parts should be set as walls, barriers than should never be crossed again.

Yes, but we don't hold onto conflicts from the 17th or 18th centuries. Hitler will always be a prominent character in history - much as Genghis Khan, Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great will - but over time the emotion fades and history can be examined more objectively and critically.

Not enough is taught about why Hitler was so popular and successful. He is painted as a villain devoid of any positive attributes and that simply isn't historically accurate or helpful. If we hide from how Hitler was able to manipulate people and acquire so much influence and power then we risk repeating the same tragedies. History has been grossly oversimplified and manipulated, which only plays into the hands of extremists. And don't anybody dare construe that as me supporting Hitler, Nazis or racism in any way, shape or form - that couldn't be further from the truth. But matters like this need to be discussed objectively and fairly; falling back on emotional responses doesn't benefit society.

I am going to agre that Hilter and World War 2 should be taught in a greater frame of the 20th century with the industrial revolution, World War 1, the great totalistarisms.

Yet, that does not remove what happened between 1933 and 1945: Hilter is still one of the most hated name in the World and I really cannot figure out how someone in India would name a shop with this name.

[smooth_criminal1990]

Why?

Or do you mean United Colors of Benneton?

They have a patent on scandal advertising in the fashion world. :laugh:

Glassed Silver:mac

Because Hugo Boss supplied the SS uniforms, as this Hipster Hitler comic points out :D I checked on Hugo Boss's Wiki page, so this information seems legit.

http://hipsterhitler.com/comics/new-uniforms/

[BobbyJobs]

Why QQ over already spilt milk? Who cares what he calls the shop if your offended don't shop there simple. To sue / force someone to change the name of there business on the grounds you dont like it or its insulting or racist is stupid its like taking away Free speech. Just grow thicker skin.

[Arceles]

I agree with the fact that the German government is trying hard to hide their past, it's even reflected in the thoughts of a lot of german people, there are others however, which I meet in person, that are tired of that because they don't learn anything else in history than "do not repeat the things of the WWII" also Israel is taking advantage (from quite a long time) of being the victim, nowadays they are pretty much aggressors as every other country in the middle east.

May their people advance through this. /offtopic off

On another note, the swastika and the Hitler name, as Glassed Silver has said, it's just a way to call attention. I wonder if they really sell SS uniforms, as far as I know they are highly regarded.

[zeta_immersion]

the swastika used by hitler is not the same as the indian/hindu swastika ... different drawings .. people get worked up about this way too much