Apache Hammers Microsoft Over Do Not Track

By t_r_nelson
in Back Page News

 Share

Recommended Posts

Grand Master

Vice

Posted
Posted

It's part of the install process. You can't just click an X to make it go away. You aren't in Windows when that box appears... there is nowhere to go but forward...

Okay then. I've not seen anything like this yet where is this dialogue box? When you install Windows 8?

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

Will someone else explain this to him? I keep trying but there must be some way in which I'm not being clear enough...

:huh:

Which part of "getting a response doesn't guarantee that you aren't being tracked" isn't clear enough?

Sure, ad companies could at some point be investigated, and some might be found guilty, and they might pay a fine... all that hasn't really stopped companies from misbehaving so far, has it?

The point, though, is that you can't verify if you are being tracked.

You said that a standards body could "easily confirm if the flag is being respected or not just by reading the response". Unless they actually open an investigation, for all they know they could just be pretending to be respecting it.

Veteran

rfirth

Posted
Posted

Okay then. I've not seen anything like this yet where is this dialogue box? When you install Windows 8?

Yes... towards the end of the install process. It's not a box, it's full screen and part of the same process where you enter your Microsoft account and choose colors for the start screen.

Express_Settings_Win8RTM.jpg

Customize_Settings_Win8RTM.jpg

Mentor

Colin McGregor

Posted
Posted

Again it doesn't 'automatically default' anything. You are given a very clear choice during the setup of Windows to either enable or disable DNT.

The user has to make this choice. It isn't just automatically done without them having been given an option, so will you please stop trying to spread this FUD!

I'm starting to agree with Stoffel when they say that some of you are being thick on purpose. It's not amusing...

it is a clear option in the setup, but to who?? You think my grandma knows what a send a do not track response means?? They need to leave this on and let the people that know what it is turn it off. Programs have no issues having toolbars and extra bs spyware autochecked in an install and make us uncheck so why can't ms do the same?

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

...? So, the right thing to do is override browser settings and ignore the DNT setting just because its a default install option?

IMO the right thing would be overhauling the standard so manual user activation isn't a requirement. Either that or just leave it alone, let the standard fail and start thinking about how to implement something that actually works.

Apache changing the DNT flag doesn't really solve anything, and I don't think they have any business in messing with this kind of browser settings anyway

Veteran

Shane Nokes

Posted
Posted

:huh:

Which part of "getting a response doesn't guarantee that you aren't being tracked" isn't clear enough?

Sure, ad companies could at some point be investigated, and some might be found guilty, and they might pay a fine... all that hasn't really stopped companies from misbehaving so far, has it?

The point, though, is that you can't verify if you are being tracked.

You said that a standards body could "easily confirm if the flag is being respected or not just by reading the response". Unless they actually open an investigation, for all they know they could just be pretending to be respecting it.

By your standard then you can never trust anything, and everyone by default is a liar and should never ever be trusted.

it is a clear option in the setup, but to who?? You think my grandma knows what a send a do not track response means?? They need to leave this on and let the people that know what it is turn it off. Programs have no issues having toolbars and extra bs spyware autochecked in an install and make us uncheck so why can't ms do the same?

Colin, choosing Express will turn it on. Choosing Customize gives you the option. Most people are going to click Express...including those Grandmas out there :)

Grand Master

Ryoken

Posted
Posted

By your standard then you can never trust anything, and everyone by default is a liar and should never ever be trusted.

Laws, and enforcement, are not about trust. They are about proof.

GM can't just say their car is safe, it needs to be verified.

The problem with DNT is it can't be verified. Not without access to the live server and it's code. Making the whole thing a joke that can't be enforced.. Might as well pass a law about thinking, cause you have the same chances of proving it in court.

And no, I don't trust people just cause they say something. People Lie.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

IMO the right thing would be overhauling the standard so manual user activation isn't a requirement. Either that or just leave it alone, let the standard fail and start thinking about how to implement something that actually works.

Apache changing the DNT flag doesn't really solve anything, and I don't think they have any business in messing with this kind of browser settings anyway

It wasn't a requirement. The advertising lobby added it to standards after Microsoft announced that DNT will be turned on in express. (too lazy to cite source)

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

It wasn't a requirement. The advertising lobby added it to standards after Microsoft announced that DNT will be turned on in express. (too lazy to cite source)

I don't know when it became a requirement (I've seen claims about that being after MS released IE10 but never with a source, nor any quote about what exact members of the committee introduced that requirement), but that's irrelevant anyway.

I mean, maybe it's somewhat relevant for the Apache-IE10 drama, but that's a red herring. The real problem is that it's a requirement now.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

I don't know when it became a requirement (I've seen claims about that being after MS released IE10 but never with a source, nor any quote about what exact members of the committee introduced that requirement), but that's irrelevant anyway.

I mean, maybe it's somewhat relevant for the Apache-IE10 drama, but that's a red herring. The real problem is that it's a requirement now.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/06/default-do-not-track/

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/do-not-track-debate-reveals-cracks-in-online-privacy-consensus/5077

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

Cool thanks (Y)

If ad networks have a saying on the definition of the standard (and they do because it's them who will have to willingly comply for it to work) this will be going nowhere fast.

It's in their best interest that DNT is either not widely used or unenforceable. Or even better, both.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

I don't know when it became a requirement (I've seen claims about that being after MS released IE10 but never with a source, nor any quote about what exact members of the committee introduced that requirement), but that's irrelevant anyway.

I mean, maybe it's somewhat relevant for the Apache-IE10 drama, but that's a red herring. The real problem is that it's a requirement now.

But it's still not a standard, and ms is part for standards group and won't accept the defaul off req. default on or off doesn't belong in standards spec anyway

Grand Master

ichi

Posted
Posted

But it's still not a standard, and ms is part for standards group and won't accept the defaul off req. default on or off doesn't belong in standards spec anyway

Other than Government intervention I don't see how any of the pro-privacy parties of the committee could force the hand of ad companies, you'd need the standard to be compulsory and legally binding.

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

Well seeing as we're in or halfway in the EU. and the EU loves to force legislations for good or bad, I'm fairly sure that as soon as the EU gets a sniff of this DNT thing, they'll make a legislation saying all ad companies need to abide by it or they'll get fined out of this galaxy. At least the EU have the guts to do something like this and put the big corporations and ad companies in their place, which is behind the consumer and people.

Veteran

Shane Nokes

Posted
Posted

Well seeing as we're in or halfway in the EU. and the EU loves to force legislations for good or bad, I'm fairly sure that as soon as the EU gets a sniff of this DNT thing, they'll make a legislation saying all ad companies need to abide by it or they'll get fined out of this galaxy. At least the EU have the guts to do something like this and put the big corporations and ad companies in their place, which is behind the consumer and people.

Eh, sometimes the EU is a good thing and sometimes they just throw their weight around in order to make themselves some money.

This is something I know more than a little bit about due to the way they kept fining MS into the ground while refusing to define how they wanted certain OS changes implemented for quite some time. They made a huge chunk of change off those fines...

Grand Master

HawkMan

Posted
Posted

The MS case is one I don't think they did the right thing, not to 100% anyway. But on the other hand, it is kind of MS who makes the OS and understands it, job to say what they can do so they can make an educated decision on what to do. and of course that's what happened in the end. it should just never have gone there in the first place.

Then on the other end of the scale you have the case where intel was clearly abusing it's might and they took them out for it. while the US mostly did nothing.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • Microsoft Weekly: Xbox exclusives are back, big Windows app updates, and more

      By TarasBuria · Posted

      Microsoft Weekly: Xbox exclusives are back, big Windows app updates, and more by Taras Buria This week's news recap is here. Microsoft is returning to XBOX exclusives, Windows 11 gets new preview builds, the Low-latency Profile is here, big updates for inbox Windows apps, Patch Tuesday updates, and more. Quick links: Windows 10 and 11 Windows Insider Program Updates are available Reviews are in Gaming news Great deals to check Windows 11 and Windows 10 Here, we talk about everything happening around Microsoft's latest operating system in the Stable channel and preview builds: new features, removed features, controversies, bugs, interesting findings, and more. And, of course, you may find a word or two about older versions. The June 2026 Patch Tuesday updates are now publicly available. Windows 11 users can download KB5094126, which introduces plenty of new features and security updates, including the Low-latency Profile for better performance, shared Bluetooth audio support, and more. Windows 10 users with PCs enrolled in the Extended Security Update program can download KB5094127. In addition, Microsoft released new Defender updates for its operating systems. Speaking of Defender, Microsoft will now deliver EDR updates via Microsoft Update for faster security improvements independent of Patch Tuesday updates. Following the release of this month's Patch Tuesday updates, Microsoft also published new Windows 11 images available in the Media Creation Tool app. Now, you can create bootable USB media for clean Windows 11 installations with the latest releases. Some unfortunate stuff is going on with certain PCs from Dell and HP. Dell acknowledged that the SupportAssist bug causes black screens of death, while HP systems are suffering from Secure Boot update issues and boot loops. Both companies issued official advisories. Windows Insider Program Here is what Microsoft released for Windows Insiders this week: Builds Canary Channel Builds 29610.1000 and 28120.2302 This week's "Canary" builds only contain performance improvements and fixes, including the Low-latency mode, which is now available in the Stable channel for all Windows 11 24H2 and 25H2 users. Dev Channel Build 26300.8687 Microsoft brought some useful File Explorer changes with this build. You can now open folders in a new tab by middle-clicking them in the address bar. Beta Channel Build 26220.8680 and 28020.2298 Screen Tint, improved Windows Widgets, and other enhancements are included in this week's Beta releases. Release Preview Channel Builds 26200.8728 and 26100.8728 These builds also feature better widgets, new Windows Update controls, point-in-time restore, File Explorer improvements, and more. In addition to new Windows 11 preview builds, Microsoft announced that inbox Windows 11 apps now have their dedicated release notes in the official documentation. Also, Microsoft dropped massive feature updates for six apps, including Paint, Clock, Calculator, Camera, Media Player, Photos, and more. Updates are available This section covers software, firmware, and other notable updates (released and coming soon) delivering new features, security fixes, improvements, patches, and more from Microsoft and third parties. Google has some bad news for those still using MV2-based extensions in Chromium-based browsers, particularly Chrome. The company is now removing flags responsible for Manifest V2-based extensions (uBlock Origin is one of the most popular). However, some browsers resist this change, and Opera issued a statement that it will allow users to continue using MV2 extensions for as long as possible. While Microsoft is still not ready to share new details about MV2 extensions in Microsoft Edge, the company shared important details about the way it will be updating the browser going forward. Now, Microsoft wants to update Edge every two weeks across all platforms instead of the current four-week schedule (only the Extended Stable is exempt from this change). This week, Microsoft confirmed a useful new Teams feature that is coming to the messenger soon. It also detailed all the improvements that made the platform better for users in 2026. However, not all changes are great, as the company is moving ahead with the check-in feature, which many believe will lead to employee monitoring. PowerToys received a feature update this week. Version 0.100 arrived with a big rework for the Shortcut Guide, a new extension gallery for Command Palette, new Dock features, and plenty of other changes. Here are other updates and releases you may find interesting: Microsoft is bringing big performance improvements to OneDrive on Mac Popular Windows 11 file manager Files gets improved tags, layouts, and a new OneDrive icon New Outlook for Windows and Web is getting a simple but very useful email feature Microsoft had to shut down 70+ GitHub repos after getting hacked, bringing back some Microsoft AI boss no longer believes that AI will replace human workers Microsoft wants to end printer driver headaches with Windows Ready Print SQL Server Management Studio 22.7 brings "What's New" page, T-SQL formatting, and lots more Microsoft releases Visual Studio Code 1.124 with smarter autonomous AI agents Windows Server gets DNS over HTTPS (DoH) support Here are the latest drivers and firmware updates released this week: NVIDIA 610.52 Hotfix with multiple fixes for black screens of death, sleep issues, G-SYNC, and more. Reviews are in Here is the hardware and software we reviewed this week Steven Parker reviewed a rather unorthodox device here on Neowin this week. He took for a spin the DWARF mini, the world's smallest smart telescope for night and day sky captures. It tracks objects in the sky, has a sun filter, and has a low learning curve. There is also nice build quality and a quite affordable price. Pulasthi Ariyasinghe reviewed 007 First Light. The game turned out to be a satisfying spy adventure in the James Bond universe with great gunplay and combat, impressive crowds, over-the-top action sequences, and more. There are a few quirks here and there, but overall, the game scored high on our scale. On the gaming side Learn about upcoming game releases, Xbox rumors, new hardware, software updates, freebies, deals, discounts, and more. Microsoft held the latest XBOX Games Showcase this week. There, the company announced plenty of cool stuff, including a remake of Halo: Combat Evolved, a special 25th anniversary XBOX Series X with a classic translucent green design (coming in November 2026), details about Gears of War: E-Day, Spyro: A Realm Beyond after nearly 20 years since the last release, a new Hellblade game from Ninja Theory, a new expansion for DOOM: The Dark Ages, fresh details about State of Decay 3, and even a new entry in the Crazy Taxi series. More improtantly for XBOX fans, Microsoft announced the return of XBOX exclusives, with Gears of War: E-Day and Clockwork Revolution kicking it off. Microsoft also has some good news for Nintendo Switch 2 owners. Minecraft is coming natively to the second-gen Switch, offering better performance and new features, including the visual overhaul called "Vibrant Visuals." Playground Games revealed a 30-minute gameplay video of the upcoming Fable, showcasing combat, action, NPC simulation, relationships, and player choices. Additionally, the studio confirmed a bug with Forza Horizon 6 wiping saves for some gamers. It also had to shut down one of the game's online modes after users discovered an infinite money glitch. NVIDIA announced new games for the GeForce NOW streaming service and a big Summer sale that lets you get 12 months of GeForce NOW for $35 or $70 less, depending on the tier. Speaking of discounts, check out this week's Weekend PC Game Deals article, full of discounts and the latest freebies from the Epic Games Store. Great deals to check Every week, we cover many deals on different hardware and software. The following discounts are still available, so check them out. You might find something you want or need. GIGABYTE Radeon RX 9070 XT Gaming OC ICE 16G - $649.99 | 13% off 1TB Samsung T7 Portable SSD - $189.98 | 31% off AirPods Pro 3 - $179 | $50 off Edifier R1280Ts Powered Bookshelf Speakers - $129.99 | 24% off This link will take you to other issues of the Microsoft Weekly series. You can also support Neowin by registering for a free member account or subscribing for extra member benefits, along with an ad-free tier option.
    • Microsoft Flight Simulator's City Update 15 enhances Midwest cities

      By LoneWolfSL · Posted

      Microsoft Flight Simulator's City Update 15 enhances Midwest cities by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe The third major city update of the year has landed for the original Microsoft Flight Simulator and the 2024 release. The latest drop is upgrading the visuals and regional accuracy of three metropolitan regions in the American states of Illinois, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. The 15th city update is adding eight new areas of interest that have been enhanced with high-fidelity TIN (triangulated irregular network) surface texturing in the mentioned regions. The free update highlights Chicago, Elgin, Cicero, and Arlington Heights in Illinois, as well as Minneapolis, St. Paul, Bloomington, Duluth, Brooklyn Park, Woodbury, Lakeville, Plymouth, and Blaine in Minnesota. In Wisconsin, the development has also upgraded the lands and buildings of Milwaukee, Madison, and Racine. The update lands just as one of the world's largest enthusiast flight simulation conventions, FlightSimExpo, kicks off in downtown St. Paul, Minnesota, on June 14. The Flight Sim development team's 40-minute keynote at the event can be watched here. At the same time, Microsoft is bringing the 6-seat, single-engine, multi-use light civil airplane Piper M600 into the game as a part of its Expert Series 2 program. This premium plane can be purchased from the in-game marketplace for $24.99. City Update 15: The United States Midwest is now available in Microsoft Flight Simulator, as well as the newer Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024, as an optional download. It can be accessed across Steam and the Microsoft Store for PC, Xbox Series X|S, and PlayStation 5, as well as Xbox and PC Game Pass subscriptions. Xbox One, mobile, and PC players can also jump into the new content using Xbox Cloud Gaming if they have a Game Pass Ultimate membership. The game must be updated to the latest version to download this free update from the in-game marketplace.
    • Five things you might have missed during Apple's WWDC 2026

      By Aditya Tiwari · Posted

      Five things you might have missed during Apple's WWDC 2026 by Aditya Tiwari Image: Apple Apple's annual developer event, WWDC 2026, happened from June 8 through June 12. We have already covered several new features and updates that the iPhone maker unveiled during the official keynote. Apple took Google's help and finally announced the upgraded Siri AI personal assistant, which now comes with an app. Moreover, a truckload of Apple Intelligence features took the center stage. That said, this year's WWDC is a bit different, and you might have noticed or missed the following stuff: Apple's ongoing unification of platforms Image: Apple One thing Apple is widely known for is its seamless hardware-software ecosystem. The company added a new chapter in 2020, when it began the Apple Silicon transition and launched macOS 11 Big Sur with native ARM support. Some major changes happened last year as well, when Apple renamed all of its operating systems to version 26 and introduced the Liquid Glass design language. Until WWDC 2025, Apple keynotes had dedicated segments for iOS, iPadOS, macOS, watchOS, and other operating systems, in which the company discussed each in detail. The WWDC 2026 keynote was different, and Apple allotted most of the screen time to Apple Intelligence and Siri. It didn't even publish separate press releases on its website for different operating systems. While it might seem surprising at first, it shows how Apple plans to move forward with its software ecosystem. Be it the Liquid Glass changes, child safety updates, or other features, they are mostly rolling out across multiple platforms. In other words, Apple is slowly blurring the line between its operating systems and achieving feature parity wherever possible. It's easy to rule out that someone in Apple's marketing team forgot to press the publish button. Everything is a calculated move when it comes to a company like Apple. Putting Apple Intelligence left, right, and center hints that the OS itself is no longer the product anymore. It's Siri, not Pepsi Time and again, various Apple products have been compared to unrelated things and turned into meme material. You might have heard about the "cheese grater" Mac Pro or the "trash can" Mac Pro, to name a few. It's Siri's turn this time. The upgraded AI assistant got a fresh logo, and people have started comparing it with Pepsi. There are other contenders, such as the Sony Ericsson logo and the Yin and Yang symbol. Shot on iPhone. Edited on Mac Image: Apple Apple has been putting the iPhone's camera muscles to the test on various occasions. Even NASA astronauts took it to Space earlier this year and captured some out-of-this-world photos. Recently, Apple TV streamed the first major live sporting event shot entirely on iPhone 17 Pro: an MLS match featuring the LA Galaxy vs. the Houston Dynamo FC. The 'Pro' iPhone has also been used to shoot Apple events in recent years. It's "Scary Fast" Mac event in 2023 was among the earliest attempts, and the tradition trickled down to the WWDC 2026 keynote, which ended with the tag line "Shot on iPhone. Edited on Mac." It's unsurprising to see Apple flexing the camera capabilities of its Pro models, especially when it has been baking professional-grade features, including ProRes RAW and Genlock. Hints for the foldable Apple has been sitting on the foldable iPhone for so long. There is still confusion over when the company will make it official. A recent report said that the iPhone Fold might get delayed as Apple is struggling to perfect its hinge mechanism. But Apple has been dropping hints here and there. A developer dug into the iOS 27 beta code and found internal references about device folding states. As verified by Macworld, the code includes references to "foldState" and "angleDegrees" internal status values, which are apparently designed to tell apps if a device is folded and at what angle. As of now, no other Apple device uses these states. The publication also found internal code suggesting Apple has been testing a device with both Touch ID and Dynamic Island, a combo that doesn't exist today. Last event as Apple CEO Image: Apple Tim Cook's bond with Apple is now almost three decades old, having started in 1998 as the SVP of Worldwide Operations. Back in August 2011, Steve Jobs stepped down as Apple CEO months before his passing, and Cook took charge. Now, the baton has been passed to the hardware chief, John Ternus, who will take over the role on September 1. WWDC 2026 is the last major Apple Event for Tim Cook as CEO. We have seen so much during Cook's tenure over the years, much of which defines Apple as we know it today. From new hardware product lines like Apple Watch, AirPods, Apple Vision Pro, and Apple Silicon, to boosting Apple's services business with Apple Music, Apple TV, Apple Pay, Apple Arcade, Apple Fitness+, Apple Care One, and more. That said, the first developer betas for Apple's latest operating systems are now available. You can check if your device is supported on iOS 27, iPadOS 27, macOS 27 Golden Gate, watchOS 27, and other platforms. What's your favorite feature that Apple announced this year at WWDC 2026? Tell us in the comments.
    • EA Sports UFC 6 review: Brutal, satisfying, and surprisingly accessible to newcomers

      By PSG1 · Posted

      Trailer park trash “sport “, fits the current White House
    • EA Sports UFC 6 review: Brutal, satisfying, and surprisingly accessible to newcomers

      By +pmrd · Posted

      Is there a White House level? lol

  • Recent Achievements

    • Week One Done
      ssd21345 earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • Contributor
      MarkHughes4096 went up a rank
      Contributor
    • Dedicated
      jordanspringer earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • Rookie
      Rimplesnort went up a rank
      Rookie
    • One Year In
      Markus94287 earned a badge
      One Year In

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      486
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      172
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      138
    4. 4
      ATLien_0
      94
    5. 5
      Steven P.
      79
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!