Apple "jumped the shark" ...

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

I shared an interesting piece on the BBC News a few days ago, prior to the iPhone 5 launch and it's interesting to see that sort of momentum has carried on.

This piece from CNet is an interesting read:

http://news.cnet.com...-shark-in-2011/

Despite the more inflammatory title, they do remain complimentary of Apple and say that they have essentially become victims of their own success.. but also that the magic did really leave the building when Steve Jobs passed away. Which I think just about anyone who followed technology with interest, knew was going to be the case.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

I think the main reason behind the success of Apple in the past was Steve Jobs. He was the visionary and he knew which risks to take. Once he passed away, it feels like some of the creative and risk-taking energy left Apple. It's no surprise that a lot of people that follow this kind of thing feel that the iPhone 5 isn't as "good" as they expected it to be (at least in terms of hardware). On Neowin, I've seen a lot of posts about people considering the Nokia Lumia 820/920.

I wonder if Apple will release a slightly updated version of the iPhone 5 in 2013 or jump straight to iPhone 6.

[Osiris]

Look I could be wrong, but I think Steve just had a great ethos of design and out of the box functionality combined with understanding the value of marketing and hype. I don't think Apple lost any creativity when Steve departed, truth is the only real time they innovate is when they launch a new product line which they haven't done in some time. Yes the ipod/iphone has invariably evolved but all the ilines havent greatly innovated in quite a while and why would they? It would be irrresponsible of them to greatly vary the design or functionality when they know the majority of people even if they are not awe struct by the new iphone will still upgrade to it.

The iTV or whatever they are rumoured to be doing in that space is where their next innovation will be. The iphone will continue to evolve but I don't think were going to see any great change in design and any new functionality they can squeeze in (cost vis space) will be things the competitors have already showcased, wireless charging, NFC etc.

[nekkidtruth]

Look I could be wrong, but I think Steve just had a great ethos of design and out of the box functionality combined with understanding the value of marketing and hype. I don't think Apple lost any creativity when Steve departed, truth is the only real time they innovate is when they launch a new product line which they haven't done in some time. Yes the ipod/iphone has invariably evolved but all the ilines havent greatly innovated in quite a while and why would they? It would be irrresponsible of them to greatly vary the design or functionality when they know the majority of people even if they are not awe struct by the new iphone will still upgrade to it.

The iTV or whatever they are rumoured to be doing in that space is where their next innovation will be. The iphone will continue to evolve but I don't think were going to see any great change in design and any new functionality they can squeeze in (cost vis space) will be things the competitors have already showcased, wireless charging, NFC etc.

And eventually they'll end up in the same position as RIM. They were stagnant for years due to their success (mainly with the enterprise userbase, later with consumers) and they ended up backing themselves into a corner. I think RIM will come out of this relatively in tact, but they've lost a lot along the way. Apple may very well follow this same road at this rate.

[moloko]

Steve Jobs WAS Apple. Now Apple will try to coast as long as they can. 2 or 3 more years on the current products. Then it will become more fragmented. Stock will slowly go down again. Another will rise.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I'm not Apples biggest fan, but if it ain't broke don't fix it.

They have more money than they know what to do with, iPhone 4 and 4S sells hand over fist.

They give the iPhone what it needed, faster cpu, better camera/lense, faster wifi, faster data connection, bigger 16:9 screen, nearly every part/feature of the 4S has been improved.

If you REALLY sit down and think, realistically, how is Apple going to revolutionise the iPhone?

[The Rev]

If you REALLY sit down and think, realistically, how is Apple going to revolutionise the iPhone?

If we knew that, we would have a better company than Steve Jobs did. :-p

[encarta]

I don't think the hardware is the problem. It's the software. Look at the iOS. Same old icons, ugly gradients, horrible skeuomorphic design of the default apps. They could have completely redesigned the iOS in a year. But they didn't. Why? What are they thinking? And what is Scott Forstall doing? Playing games at work or what? iOS feels (and is) archaic. It's inconsistent. iOS 6 has Facebook and Twitter buttons in the notification drawer. Why not give us the option to replace those two buttons with, let's say, a wi-fi switch? The multitasking bar still shows only 4 icons. Why? It was stupid when the iPhone 4 came out, but now, when the iPhone 5 has a taller screen, it's completely retarded. When you activate the multitasking bar, the rest of the screen is unusable anyway. So why not put there at least 8 icons (two rows)?

I have spend around 400 euros for apps and games in a little more than a year. To me, it would make sense to stay in the Apple's ecosystem. But I won't. Because of the "same old, same old" iOS.

EDIT: The picture above was taken from this article: http://www.macorg.net/ios-multitasking-bar-could-look-like/

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

I don't think it's Apple's fault really. They make great hardware, they really do, but the problem is that there's now a certain expectation of how the iPhone should be. Look at what's happening to Windows 8. Whether or not the changes are good or bad is a debate that could go on until the end of time, but the fact is that Microsoft have been reluctant to change the Windows UI paradigm for exactly that reason. People don't like jarring changes, and if Apple were to "revolutionise" the iPhone again, I think the fallout would be worse than what it is now.

As much as Apple would love to be the continuous revolutionary, the fact is that they've become "the standard" now, much the same way that Windows is the "standard OS", and there are expectations of stability linked to that. I think the original BBC article said it best:

To use a car analogy, six years ago the iPhone was like a sexy new flagship model from BMW or Porsche. Today it's a Toyota Camry. Safe, reliable, boring. The car your mom drives. The car that's so popular that its maker doesn't dare mess with the formula.

That all said, I think next time the iPhone is due for a refresh, they'll have learned from this and we'll see something much better :)

[majortom1981]

I don't think it's Apple's fault really. They make great hardware, they really do, but the problem is that there's now a certain expectation of how the iPhone should be. Look at what's happening to Windows 8. Whether or not the changes are good or bad is a debate that could go on until the end of time, but the fact is that Microsoft have been reluctant to change the Windows UI paradigm for exactly that reason. People don't like jarring changes, and if Apple were to "revolutionise" the iPhone again, I think the fallout would be worse than what it is now.

As much as Apple would love to be the continuous revolutionary, the fact is that they've become "the standard" now, much the same way that Windows is the "standard OS", and there are expectations of stability linked to that. I think the original BBC article said it best:

That all said, I think next time the iPhone is due for a refresh, they'll have learned from this and we'll see something much better :)

Microsoft DID make a huge change though. From windows 6.5 to windows 7 was a gigantic change. If microsoft was able to do it apple can as well. My problem is I have a iphone 4s and the ONLY feature i do not get is the longer screen. I just updated to ios 6. my camera specs are the same. I get the siri updates , the turn by turn and map updates. All other features not related to the screen. Eventually normal people will catch on that they dont have to upgrade to the next iphone to get a lot of the new features. Then what will apple do?

[Vice]

I think the main reason behind the success of Apple in the past was Steve Jobs. He was the visionary and he knew which risks to take. Once he passed away, it feels like some of the creative and risk-taking energy left Apple. It's no surprise that a lot of people that follow this kind of thing feel that the iPhone 5 isn't as "good" as they expected it to be (at least in terms of hardware). On Neowin, I've seen a lot of posts about people considering the Nokia Lumia 820/920.

I wonder if Apple will release a slightly updated version of the iPhone 5 in 2013 or jump straight to iPhone 6.

Steve knew about the iPhone 5 and signed off on it before he passed away. According to his biography they always have 2 generations of product planned out while the current version is released. He passed just after the iPhone 4S launch so based on this he would have fully known about the iPhone 5 and I'd expect he knew some of what the next iPhone after this one would be too.

Also there were leaks earlier in the year about how Steve and other execs were discussing increasing the iPhones screen size and decided to go with only a vertical increase and not horizontal, Steve knew about this as he was included in those discussions, that was all part of the leak too.

When you look at the iPhone 4 to iPhone 4S, is that really any more amazing than iPhone 4S to iPhone 5? with this new version they've actually modified the external design of the phone more than the iPhone 4S did but people are saying this phone the iPhone 5 is the result of Steve not being there as a visionary? Under his watch the iPhone 4S happened and the iPhone 3GS which was externally identical to the iPhone 3G.

I think the iPhone 5's hardware is decent, the larger screen is nice and although I didn't like the back at first it has grown on me. But I'm still not buying it because for me the issue isn't the hardware so much as it is the software. I feel iOS is not moving fast enough in the direction I want. As I said in the iOS 6 thread, I want full multitasking not this luke-warm set of background API's that developers can only run specific features through like streaming audio and voip calls and I also want application expose so we can actually see previews of the apps we may want to switch between instead of just the app icon.

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

Microsoft DID make a huge change though. From windows 6.5 to windows 7 was a gigantic change. If microsoft was able to do it apple can as well. My problem is I have a iphone 4s and the ONLY feature i do not get is the longer screen. I just updated to ios 6. my camera specs are the same. I get the siri updates , the turn by turn and map updates. All other features not related to the screen. Eventually normal people will catch on that they dont have to upgrade to the next iphone to get a lot of the new features. Then what will apple do?

That was my point, Microsoft were able to make those changes in the mobile space because by the time WP7 rolled around, they were basically out of the game, and small enough players to mess with their stuff to try and get a better product. With Windows 8 on the desktop though, there's outcry from a significant proportion of the userbase that they've "changed too much" or "made it harder to use". Apple doesn't want to risk it's market share on complaints like that, especially when the smartphone market is so volatile. If people don't like the new iPhone, most won't have a problem with dropping Apple and going and picking up an Android or Windows Phone device.

On Neowin, I've seen a lot of posts about people considering the Nokia Lumia 820/920.

That's probably because most of the Lumia discussions on Neowin are basically just great big circlejerks :p.

[n_K]

Eventually normal people will catch on that they dont have to upgrade to the next iphone to get a lot of the new features. Then what will apple do?

They'll make updates available only for the current and last-year models and make the older models run even slower with even more battery drain?

[sc302 Veteran]

Young people want new and exciting, older people want stability, and old people want things to stay the same. I am in the stability phase, I really don't give a rats ass about new interface...it doesn't have to look good, it just has to work flawlessly. When you make severe changes, you often skimp on the stability (Me and vista...ok vista is somewhat stable but it has issues....windows 8 is a complete redesign, much like ME and vista...ME was supposed to be what xp was where the removed the DOS os but they couldn't completely do it and left a bastardized OS) I expect a ton of issues. Apple is used to making small changes, they have been on osx for 10+ years, when is osxi coming out? Of course iphone5 is following suit to that model, don't fix what isn't broken. I am sure that you are going to see that the apple UI for ios isn't going to change all that much for a long time.

[Somnus]

I just updated to ios 6.

How did you upgrade to iOS6? Isn't it still beta?

[ATLien_0]

I mentioned this in another thread, but I really don't think the iPhone 5 is that bad. I don't really like the 2 part backing, but thats pretty minor. I think most people now expect Apple to reinvent its forms with every version jump. Look at the original iPhone they used that form for a few years before switching. I think the form jump from the original iPhone to the iPhone 4 was about as drastic as we are going to see, as it seemed that Apple was trying to define their mobile branding. Another example is the iMac, The current form factor was used for several generations dating back to the all white plastic era. What we will probably see now is a more unified iPhone and iPad look until the next real change. As someone mentioned above this iPhone 5 was designed while Jobs was still alive. The next iteration will be the real test.

[Axel]

I'm glad to see a proper mature debate going on here rather than the usual plethora of insults flinging backward and forwards on front page comments.

I can see why apple would hesitate changing the formula of iOS when they've got such a following through the older and younger generations. The younger would certainly cope and welcome change very well but any drastic changes would likely confuse and baffle some.

You can't please them all unfortunately. I've skipped the iPhone 5 as I don't see it as a worth upgrade to my 4S. I do however think the phone is absolutely stunningly designed. I'll sit back and watch how the smartphone market develops over the next year. I'm not particularly interested in Android but WP8 and the Lumia really excite me.

[Dot Matrix]

I think you're going to be seeing more coming from Microsoft/Nokia in the future. They have the creative genius to out-Apple Apple.

[Nashy]

iPhone 5 should have been bigger than this. Not the physical phone, but the hype. There is f-all hype compared to the 4. The 4 was massive. The 4 was beautiful. The 4 is still one of the nicest phones on the market, they just look ****ing good.

iOS is old and probably too familiar. People don't feel like it's an upgrade IMO. Sure it has all the new speed talk and hype, but really, the iPhone 4 is pretty good for your average user, and people know it's more than capable. So what extra could it possibly give them.

I dunno. I'll probably end up with one, so I can actually make my own decision about whether I like it, don't like it, or think Apple did good, but right now, I don't think it's going to be as popular as Apple will hope.

[Stokkolm]

I agree with almost everything said in this discussion. I really love the design of the iPhone 5, but once I got over the hype of the announcement I realized that it's really not all that much better than my 4S. I will keep that since I just got it in March and I'll wait to see what comes next year. I am really liking what I'm seeing out of Nokia as well, so I'll definitely consider them in my next purchase about a year from now. Android doesn't do anything for me at all and it looks like Samsung is starting to port their Android phone designs to the Windows Phone platform anyway (GS3 -> ATIV S).

[Nashy]

I agree with almost everything said in this discussion. I really love the design of the iPhone 5, but once I got over the hype of the announcement I realized that it's really not all that much better than my 4S. I will keep that since I just got it in March and I'll wait to see what comes next year. I am really liking what I'm seeing out of Nokia as well, so I'll definitely consider them in my next purchase about a year from now. Android doesn't do anything for me at all and it looks like Samsung is starting to port their Android phone designs to the Windows Phone platform anyway (GS3 -> ATIV S).

Exactly this. I loved my S2, I love my S3, but they just don't feel like a solid phone. My S3 just feels tacky. Very well built, but just not strong. HTC One X is certainly nice IMO, only reason I am not using it is the useless battery life.

I think Nokia is going to wrestle their way back to the top, and probably make it. WP8 seems to be building some nice hype, and the Lumias are a nice looking phone that just feels solid. Which is one of the greatest features of the iPhone 4. It feels right.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Steve knew about the iPhone 5 and signed off on it before he passed away. According to his biography they always have 2 generations of product planned out while the current version is released. He passed just after the iPhone 4S launch so based on this he would have fully known about the iPhone 5 and I'd expect he knew some of what the next iPhone after this one would be too.

Also there were leaks earlier in the year about how Steve and other execs were discussing increasing the iPhones screen size and decided to go with only a vertical increase and not horizontal, Steve knew about this as he was included in those discussions, that was all part of the leak too.

When you look at the iPhone 4 to iPhone 4S, is that really any more amazing than iPhone 4S to iPhone 5? with this new version they've actually modified the external design of the phone more than the iPhone 4S did but people are saying this phone the iPhone 5 is the result of Steve not being there as a visionary? Under his watch the iPhone 4S happened and the iPhone 3GS which was externally identical to the iPhone 3G.

I think the iPhone 5's hardware is decent, the larger screen is nice and although I didn't like the back at first it has grown on me. But I'm still not buying it because for me the issue isn't the hardware so much as it is the software. I feel iOS is not moving fast enough in the direction I want. As I said in the iOS 6 thread, I want full multitasking not this luke-warm set of background API's that developers can only run specific features through like streaming audio and voip calls and I also want application expose so we can actually see previews of the apps we may want to switch between instead of just the app icon.

I didn't know that. I guess the iPhone 5's hardware is really great but it feels like it came a little late. I always see comparisons between the iPhone and an Android-based smartphone from a company like Samsung or HTC. Those companies have the upper hand because they have multiple models that release over the course of the year whereas Apple releases one iPhone per year. And we know that Apple doesn't adopt new technologies right away. Instead, they wait until that technology matures to a level where the majority can use it. The competition is fierce and it seems like Apple could be in trouble next year (assuming they release the iPhone 5S).

I've always been a fan of the iPhone in terms of hardware. I think it's a beautiful and elegant-looking smartphone. What I stongly disliked over the years is iOS. I don't like how it's locked down compared to Android. Another thing that bothered me was the user interface. I think it's a little weird but I didn't always think that way. I used to like it back in 2007 when I bought a first gen iPod Touch. Finally, it seems like iOS has barely changed in terms of its user interface. Android has undergone a lot of changes (especially with Android 4.0).

[Chicane-UK Veteran]

Great discussion guys and some interesting points. Glad my post was taken as a conversation point (which is what it was intended as) rather than trollbait!

[migo]

I think the main reason behind the success of Apple in the past was Steve Jobs. He was the visionary and he knew which risks to take.

Not quite, he knew which risks not to take. When the iPhone first launched, there were so many things that it wouldn't do, but the stuff it did do, it did very well. The iPhone 3G was the same deal, it was an incredibly spartan phone with an incredibly spartan operating system, but it worked very well. When copy and paste finally came along, it wasn't because Apple had finally perfected it, but because people had been asking for it for so long that they'd be satisfied with something that generally works the way you want it to.

That was the characteristic of the iPhone in the beginning. It wasn't a Swiss Army Knife, it was an Opinel. With a SAK you'd get frustrated by how none of the stuff worked terribly well. With an Opinel you wouldn't even try to open a can with it, but it felt good in the hand and the blade was easy to keep sharp. Never anything to complain about with the blade.

The iPhone 4 was really the downward trend for Apple. They didn't want to pay Nokia any further royalties, so they created a crappy new antenna design. The 4S was just about fixing that poor design, but they had nothing else so they had to shunt a beta Siri on people to justify it to buyers. Now they're shunting a beta Maps onto people. That's stuff Jobs would have said no to.

They've entirely screwed themselves, it'll take years for Siri to get anywhere resembling usable, and when technology hits that point, some other company will make a big splash of it (and nobody will have been using Siri even when it finally does work), it'll take years for them to make Maps somewhat usable, and at least a decade to have a hope at catching up with Google. What are they going to do in the mean time? Throw more beta features on people so that they're not just talking about how they've fixed stuff that's crap?

[Xilo]

Apple failed when Jobs left. Apple succeeded when Jobs came back.

Apple is nothing without Jobs.