Editorial news calls quite a lot of people Idiots

[Shane Nokes]

You just did Brother. Let's hear what you have to say.

Without going into this specific case, which I don't wan to touch?

I think tech journalism is lazy journalism in a lot of cases these days. A ton of 'top' sites seem to employ the write & immediately post model. Very little copy-editing or fact checking.

I like to call it blurnalism since the quality tends to rival the average blog post, but with more 'authority' or heft backing it.

It happens at a ton of sites. I don't want to call them out though because some of their staff are members here.

[andrewbares]

Isn't the point of an editorial to provide an opinion on something in hopes of convincing others to agree with you? Nobody from the other side is going to change their mind if you call them stupid...

Yep. bdsams missed the point of an editorial.

[ahhell]

Yeah I couldnt believe he said we desevered to be shot for thinking differently basically. Hence why he changed it but didnt have the balls to mention he shouldnt have said that. That seriously bothered me.

It's a figure of ****ing speech. JESUS!!

Also, he never specifically listed anyone's name or even insinuated that he was referring to a user on Neowin.

Maybe it is time to bring back the waaambulance.

[andrewbares]

It's a figure of ****ing speech. JESUS!!

Also, he never specifically listed anyone's name or even insinuated that he was referring to a user on Neowin.

Maybe it is time to bring back the waaambulance.

So now making a good argument == "This group of people look like idiots, and should be kicked in the shins"??? That's one problem with the article.

And by saying that a group of people are idiots, that means you're calling each person in that group idiots...

[dead.cell]

Man, people here really can't handle being told their opinions are wrong. :laugh:

I don't like generalizations personally, but you guys are really taking this article to heart. They're a bunch of text representing the opinion of one person. You're free to disregard the post and consider them an idiot just the same. If you want to call them idiots in the same light, well hey, maybe you should try writing up your own editorial and submitting it? Or does that require too much effort?

[ahhell]

So now making a good argument == "This group of people look like idiots, and should be kicked in the shins"??? That's one problem with the article.

And by saying that a group of people are idiots, that means you're calling each person in that group idiots...

I have no idea what it is you are trying to say...and here I thought you were a writer.

Hmmmm...

[bdsams Veteran]

Yeah I couldnt believe he said we desevered to be shot for thinking differently basically. Hence why he changed it but didnt have the balls to mention he shouldnt have said that. That seriously bothered me.

Whoa, I did say that was wrong, thus the change. Sorry, it was posted on Twitter (where most of the flak came from) and it was changed...not hiding here.

It was a poorly placed joke from the Office: http://macromeme.com/cat/shoot-toby-twice-office-funny.jpg

[andrewbares]

I have no idea what it is you are trying to say...and here I thought you were a writer.

Hmmmm...

Remember when you said "Also, he never specifically listed anyone's name or even insinuated that he was referring to a user on Neowin."?

Remember when bdsams said "Calling Windows 8 the next Vista makes you look like an idiot"?

Consider the group of people that called Windows 8 the next Vista... that group contains users of Neowin. By saying a group of people is x, you're saying that EVERY person in that group is x, unless you say "SOME people in this group are x".

Therefore, he did say that members of Neowin look like idiots and should be kicked in the shin, twice.

And when have good arguments consisted of name calling?

[Arceles]

Whoa, I did say that was wrong, thus the change. Sorry, it was posted on Twitter (where most of the flak came from) and it was changed...not hiding here.

Since I still see the title saying "Idiot" in such manner then...

Editorial:

bdsams, I tell you "Windows 8 is like Vista" Therefore according to your words I'm an Idiot, then I reply you, YOU are the one to be called 1D10T here since you couldn't accept this from another user.

There, I used Editorial, let's see how long until I get a warning.

Edit: I feel at ease now, peace.

[Dashel]

I've came to the understanding that the rules are meant to enforce restraint than clear cut "break it and you're screwed" guidelines. If I and other mods were following rules to the letter, a good number of these discussions would be deleted.

1) That results in arbitrary enforcement and punishment that isn't fair to anyone and 2) You can't enforce the rules to the letter, because they are simply too broad and unenforceable.

Fix the stupid rules so they aren't so vague and catch-all, make intent matter, provide some constructive 'editors' in contentious threads, and have punishments be consistently enforced across all members at all levels.

Most importantly, let the players play.

[gregalto]

this entire thread is worthy of a Darwin award for stupidity.

[Nothing Here]

this entire thread is worthy of a Darwin award for stupidity.

Glad you said that. Darwin deserves a Darwin award for his stupidity.

[Calum Veteran]

In fact, I did recieve a warning for doing exactly what this person did. [. . .]

No, you did not. That is a complete falsehood. We don't publicly discuss moderation decisions in the forums, so we can take this to a private message conversation if you'd like, but it's important that I point out, the warning you're talking about was not for a post exactly like what bdsams published. I've looked at what you're talking about, and I support the decision made?your post did deserve the action that was taken. Your post was nothing like a post stating "people look like idiots if they do a particular thing."

I think it's wrong that some can be warned for doing what bdsams did, but him not get warned. I know my warning was from awhile ago and has now been removed, but since he wasn't warned, maybe I deserve an apology for a wrongful warning.

Oh wait, but I don't have a ton of posts, nor am I an editor. Senior editor. Sorry.

Please see my above paragraph.

[Dashel]

Says another staff bomb thrower...

[Calum Veteran]

Says another staff bomb thrower...

Pardon? I'm not sure whether that post was referring to me (as it was posted after mine) or someone else, heh, and I'm not sure what it means.

[Denis W. Veteran]

1) That results in arbitrary enforcement and punishment that isn't fair to anyone, because they are simply too broad and unenforceable.

Fix the stupid rules so they aren't so vague and catch-all, make intent matter, provide some constructive 'editors' in contentious threads, and have punishments be consistently enforced across all members at all levels.

Most importantly, let the players play.

Actually, it's usually the opposite direction. Grey area discussions tend to lean towards giving members a chance - but not always.

Also any rules revision won't fix the problem that some people have attitudes that just plain suck. Besides running them off the site or letting it become a free-for-all, fixing that isn't easy. Welcome to this era of the Internet, I guess. Either way, you have people leaving the site because we're too lenient on rules and letting people rampage with their views, or people being forced away from the site due to being a douche and consistently breaking rules.

[Nothing Here]

Well, I pm'd you Calum. I would like to know what all my warnings were for. PM Sent Today, 13:47. Should have been plenty of time to respond with the proof you have. So, Calum, please enlighten me. How was my warning different?

Edit:

Still no reply. Maybe he's not allowed to give it to me. I don't know.

[Xoligy]

Ok lets look at this in reality...

Nothing is going to be done.

While the staff of this site are ment to set a good example and follow the rules just like us normal users it seems like they are saying "If its in the news section we can break them" but personally i do not see why as they STILL need to set a good example. The news page is the page most are greeted with on thre first visit and if they read articles with swear words and insults then thats just going to fall back onto the forums, we have brought this to the "staffs" attention and they dont seem bothered because they will just had out infractions and make themselfs feel big.

Its like being back at school they are the cool kids with powers and we have none thats all it is, or compliant is being ignored and they do not feel they should set a good example to the users or for the site. Its there choice let them ruin it if they want to.

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

So basically:

[...] Windows 8 is the next Vista [...] a few examples of folks calling Windows 8 the next Vista, here you go [?] Windows 8 could flop [?] Windows 8 [?] could tank harder than a Russian nuclear sub during the cold War [?] complaints up front [?] rants about Windows 8 [?] Windows 8 is the next Vista [?]

Yes? ;)

[andrewbares]

I think all of this simply boils down to:

The article would have been far better without the name calling and "looking like idiots" and "kicked in the shin" comments. If you remove those, it's actually a good editorial expressing an idea in an educated manor.

But with those childish remarks, it comes off as something that is flame bait and a rant.

Ok lets look at this in reality...

Nothing is going to be done.

They could issue an apology article, and that would certainly appease me. Everyone makes mistakes. Wise people will acknowledge their mistakes and learn from them.

[Nothing Here]

Finally got a reply. But he has yet to show me I was wrong in my statement.

[Steven P. Administrators]

at title.

[Xoligy]

<snip>

says it all the admins dont care... i guess they are "idiots" hey canna give me an infraction u said its ok on the news page =)

[Owen W Veteran]

I'm sorry but I agree with Brad. Stop living and talking about a relic of the past. Anti-Microsoft readers love calling things Vista when they aren't comfortable with change, grow up, move on.

[Hum]

Well, I pm'd you Calum. I would like to know what all my warnings were for. PM Sent Today, 13:47. Should have been plenty of time to respond with the proof you have. So, Calum, please enlighten me. How was my warning different?

Edit:

Still no reply. Maybe he's not allowed to give it to me. I don't know.

Don't hold your breath on Mods explaining themselves. :laugh:

And I'm voting with my wallet on Windows 8, as in not buying.