Editorial news calls quite a lot of people Idiots

[+Warwagon MVC]

Couldn't technically anyone who thought they were being called an idiot by him, hit the report button. They would have like 1000 reports LOL.

[Calum Veteran]

Well, I pm'd you Calum. I would like to know what all my warnings were for. PM Sent Today, 13:47. Should have been plenty of time to respond with the proof you have. So, Calum, please enlighten me. How was my warning different?

Edit:

Still no reply. Maybe he's not allowed to give it to me. I don't know.

You can't expect a reply straight away, especially when it's 22:20 where I am and I'm a very busy person (in this instance, I had to nip down to the local shop, as it was closing in 10 minutes). I got back to you within 25 minutes. That's hardly a long time. Further, we don't quote time limits as to when we'll reply. We'll reply as soon as we can. Most of us lead busy lives.

We're discussing this in a private message conversation. There's no need for any of this to be public.

As I have pointed out to you, it appears that we're both referring to different instances of you being warned, and as you now know, there is a reason as to why I was not aware of you apparently having been warned for a post the same as bdsams's statement. We will continue this via a personal message conversation, so please heed our rule of not discussing moderation decisions publicly.

As a final comment, I will state that I have not yet seen any evidence of Lakota Rising having been warned for a statement similar to bdsams's statement. Now, let's leave it at that and carry on our personal message conversation to reach a conclusion (remembering that us staff don't always have the time to reply straight away or even the same day; we're volunteers, many of whom lead busy lives).

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I thought the article was distasteful, but wasn't enraged by it really (the shooting recommendation was removed when I read it).

I do feel that the author missed the point of why people consider it another Vista. He looked really strongly at the "pushing" side of the equation (MS, ISVs, IHVs, OEMs, etc) and not the "pulling" (consumers) side of the equation. The pushing side wrecked the reception of Vista causing the pulling side to balk hardcore at Vista. People are calling it Vista 2.0 (right or wrongly will be determined) because they expect the pulling side to be equally as, possibly even more, turned off by Windows 8 as they were by Vista, albeit for different reasons (pulling vs pushing).

So I would say the reality calling Windows 8 a Vista redux isn't a stupid comparison, but its validity will be determined by the market.

One thing I think is for certain, Microsoft isn't in a position for Windows 8 to get anything close to a lackluster reception by users. Otherwise, they run the risk of losing massively in the long term. Once they lose the hearts and minds of developers they will have lost the war.

[Vice]

People that write inflammatory childish articles to get page hits are acting like idiots, should be shot, shinned, are dumb and lower the IQ of everyone around them.

Of course I'm only talking about the writers over at Gizmodo. :rofl:

[Nothing Here]

You can't expect a reply straight away, especially when it's 22:20 where I am and I'm a very busy person (in this instance, I had to nip down to the local shop, as it was closing in 10 minutes). I got back to you within 25 minutes. That's hardly a long time. Further, we don't quote time limits as to when we'll reply. We'll reply as soon as we can. Most of us lead busy lives.

We're discussing this in a private message conversation. There's no need for any of this to be public.

As I have pointed out to you, it appears that we're both referring to different instances of you being warned, and as you now know, there is a reason as to why I was not aware of you apparently having been warned for a post the same as bdsams's statement. We will continue this via a personal message conversation, so please heed our rule of not discussing moderation decisions publicly.

As a final comment, I will state that I have not yet seen any evidence of Lakota Rising having been warned for a statement similar to bdsams's statement. Now, let's leave it at that and carry on our personal message conversation to reach a conclusion (remembering that us staff don't always have the time to reply straight away or even the same day; we're volunteers, many of whom lead busy lives).

Agreed. About the time issue. I was pushing buttons and I shouldn't have. But you say not to publish anything we speak about in pm, but yet you did just that, by saying you haven't seen any evidence over this. If you can go all the way back to when this acct. you will see that I have had several warnings. But yet you told me I have had only one.

Anyways, let's both stop publishing PMs in public as you have stated.

[andrewbares]

Couldn't technically anyone who thought they were being called an idiot by him, hit the report button. They would have like 1000 reports LOL.

I sent in a report. In my opinion, childish articles like these shouldn't be tolerated. I think that something on the front page should be intelligent and not resort to name calling.

The idea that bdsams is discussing (Windows 8 isn't like Vista) is fine, but when he starts throwing in attacks saying that people look like idiots and should be kicked in the shin, that's simply completely uncalled for and is childish.

[Vice]

The idea that bdsams is discussing (Windows 8 isn't like Vista) is fine, but when he starts throwing in attacks saying that people look like idiots and should be kicked in the shin, that's simply completely uncalled for and is childish.

That's just in the MPAA's revised version. In the directors cut they get shot.

[SharpGreen]

Reading through this thread, has brought to mind a quote from a British comedian who's name I forget which basically said "..if you get offended by something, then you deserve to be offended." I think it fits quite well. So if for some strange reason any of you folks were offended by this article then you should be.

It was good article, and I 100% agree with it. All of it.

[Steven P. Administrators]

Reading through this thread, has brought to mind a quote from a British comedian who's name I forget which basically said "..if you get offended by something, then you deserve to be offended." I think it fits quite well. So if for some strange reason any of you folks were offended by this article then you should be.

It was good article, and I 100% agree with it. All of it.

Stephen Fry or John Cleese springs to mind.

[Xoligy]

sorry to say sounds more like russell brand.

[andrewbares]

Reading through this thread, has brought to mind a quote from a British comedian who's name I forget which basically said "..if you get offended by something, then you deserve to be offended." I think it fits quite well. So if for some strange reason any of you folks were offended by this article then you should be.

It was good article, and I 100% agree with it. All of it.

Sorry, but when did saying people look like idiots become an accepted way of debating an argument?

[Arceles]

Sorry, but when did saying people look like idiots become an accepted way of debating an argument?

Apparently, Neowin wants to start the trend... so moderation becomes easy task! :D

[Scorpus Veteran]

I find it funny that people complain about editorials like this but continually come back to the site day after day to read the news and visit the forums anyway.

Especially those people who say there are better sites/forums elsewhere.

[andrewbares]

I find it funny that people complain about editorials like this but continually come back to the site day after day to read the news and visit the forums anyway.

Especially those people who say there are better sites/forums elsewhere.

This editorial may be the tipping point for me. I honestly don't know if there are better sites/forums out there though. I'll have to look.

[Shadrack]

I find it funny that people complain about editorials like this but continually come back to the site day after day to read the news and visit the forums anyway.

Especially those people who say there are better sites/forums elsewhere.

I've removed www.neowin.net from my bookmarks and just have the forum link now. The editorial mentioned by the OP as well as the iSheep editorial from this past weekend has made me realize there is nothing on the front page for me anymore. These types of posts don't deserve front page treatment. They are fine in the forum, but the writers for the front page and the whole news staff here should really be holding themselves to higher standards. Oh well. Stay the same, change, I don't care. Doesn't effect me anymore because I won't be looking.

Reading through this thread, has brought to mind a quote from a British comedian who's name I forget which basically said "..if you get offended by something, then you deserve to be offended." I think it fits quite well. So if for some strange reason any of you folks were offended by this article then you should be.

It was good article, and I 100% agree with it. All of it.

Some of these editorials are just flaimbait though. Blatantly so. They belong in the forum. Not some red lettered member on top of a front page soap box. That's just distasteful. If you want to rant, rant in the forum or make a personal blog to do your ranting. If Neowin wants to drive away its members, keep it up and stay Classy!

[Timan Veteran]

No one, forces you to read the articles with the big red badge labeled editorial. If each one of these posts causes you this much grief, ignore em. We label them easily so you can do so.

[Growled Member]

It's a sad thing to say but most people seem to act like idiots most of the time these days.Besides, like others have pointed out, it's an editorial.

[Shiranui]

A little puerile, certainly, but doesn't that match this site's target demographic?

[dead.cell]

I think maybe the Editorials should come with a warning label on them now.

You know, to fit in line with the rest of the idiotic warning labels we're required to have. (like that coffee just might be hot...)

[andrewbares]

I think maybe the Editorials should come with a warning label on them now.

You know, to fit in line with the rest of the idiotic warning labels we're required to have. (like that coffee just might be hot...)

Last time I checked, an editorial is a well-written article expressing an opinion, not something that bashes people who disagree by resorting to childish name calling.

Had he left out the childish name calling, then yes it would just be another editorial and be okay.

[dead.cell]

Last time I checked, an editorial is a well-written article expressing an opinion, not something that bashes people who disagree by resorting to childish name calling.

Had he left out the childish name calling, then yes it would just be another editorial and be okay.

I just have to disagree.

Many people who actually read the article are in agreement with it. If you think Windows 8 is a flop, cool. But to call it Vista? That doesn't even make sense. At all.

Editorials are well-written? Well, that depends on the person, doesn't it? (I've read enough to determine it's got to be more like 50/50) If the individual criticizing the author can't even muster up an opinion properly, founded on logic instead of this half-arsed jargon where people sling words without any attempt to determine if what they're saying makes sense, WHY in the world should we take them seriously?

Also, if this was about the generalizations of those from a certain country, of a certain race or sex, I'd be right there with you. I'm not about to defend people with opinions based off their own ignorance though. If they don't want to take the time to read and understand what it is they're talking about before someone ridicules them for it, that's they're own damn fault, is it not?

Honestly, I think if he didn't even put those first lines in, people would probably complain that he's acting smug or being condescending. Never underestimate the level to which people will over-react.

[SharpGreen]

Stephen Fry or John Cleese springs to mind.

It wasn't either of those two. It was from a vid that was posted here on the forums somewhere.

I've removed www.neowin.net from my bookmarks and just have the forum link now. The editorial mentioned by the OP as well as the iSheep editorial from this past weekend has made me realize there is nothing on the front page for me anymore. These types of posts don't deserve front page treatment. They are fine in the forum, but the writers for the front page and the whole news staff here should really be holding themselves to higher standards. Oh well. Stay the same, change, I don't care. Doesn't effect me anymore because I won't be looking.

Some of these editorials are just flaimbait though. Blatantly so. They belong in the forum. Not some red lettered member on top of a front page soap box. That's just distasteful. If you want to rant, rant in the forum or make a personal blog to do your ranting. If Neowin wants to drive away its members, keep it up and stay Classy!

I didn't find it distasteful at all, and I can't honestly believe I'm the only one. As many have said it was very clearly marked editorial, you could've have ignored it. Since you didn't, you have little room to complain. Also what point is there in bashing a guy for stating an opinion? You folks do on this forum quite a bit, why can't the news staff do so on their place of choice, the front page?

Sorry, but when did saying people look like idiots become an accepted way of debating an argument?

Guess you've never read any of the threads on politics on here then.

Also thanks you two for proving my point.

[andrewbares]

I just have to disagree.

Many people who actually read the article are in agreement with it. If you think Windows 8 is a flop, cool. But to call it Vista? That doesn't even make sense. At all.

Editorials are well-written? Well, that depends on the person, doesn't it? (I've read enough to determine it's got to be more like 50/50) If the individual criticizing the author can't even muster up an opinion properly, founded on logic instead of this half-arsed jargon where people sling words without any attempt to determine if what they're saying makes sense, WHY in the world should we take them seriously?

Also, if this was about the generalizations of those from a certain country, of a certain race or sex, I'd be right there with you. I'm not about to defend people with opinions based off their own ignorance though. If they don't want to take the time to read and understand what it is they're talking about before someone ridicules them for it, that's they're own damn fault, is it not?

Honestly, I think if he didn't even put those first lines in, people would probably complain that he's acting smug or being condescending. Never underestimate the level to which people will over-react.

You fail to realize that someone saying Windows 8 is *like* Vista may be referring to how they both may be considered failures, not *why* it will be a failure. So yes, it does make plenty of sense to say that it might be like Vista, because it certainly might "fail" like Vista did. The word, "like", can imply plenty of things.

I offered up a valid criticism numerous times. The article resorted to blatant name calling simply to draw in more hits. Trying to convince the opposing viewpoint by saying they look like idiots is not an effective argument. The goal of an editorial is to explain an opinion and also to attempt to persuade people with opposing viewpoints.

When has *EVERYONE* who thinks Windows 8 will be like Vista ever been ignorant? It is perfectly valid and reasonable to say that you think Windows 8 will fail like Vista did. Absolutely nothing wrong with that statement. You can also say that Windows 8 will succeed like Windows 7 did. Does that mean you're saying Windows 8 is going to succeed for the exact same reasons Windows 7 did?? NO. These examples are obviously talking about the end result (success/failure) and not how it got there. Sure there may be some people who said the things bdsams said, but saying that ALL people who claim Winodws 8 is like Vista is blatantly a lie.

[Fourjays Veteran]

I sent in a report. In my opinion, childish articles like these shouldn't be tolerated. I think that something on the front page should be intelligent and not resort to name calling.

The idea that bdsams is discussing (Windows 8 isn't like Vista) is fine, but when he starts throwing in attacks saying that people look like idiots and should be kicked in the shin, that's simply completely uncalled for and is childish.

Agree completely. Even as someone who doesn't like Windows 8, the point he makes is entirely valid. There was just no need for those comments.

I have to say I am disappointed but not surprised. With the greatest respect to the authors - I know how hard they work - the frontpage has become very tabloid-esque over the course of the last year and I can't say I'm particularly enjoying reading it anymore. :(

[John S. Veteran]

When I saw Brads title, honestly I cringed a bit...knowing that knee-jerks were taking place all over the world. But words actually do mean things, and I've argued on behalf of many of you trying to illustrate that point on more than one occasion. I don't like to see warns handed out to anyone unless it's blatantly clear that they don't care about the site rules or the person to whom they're speaking.

We're all apt to jump at times without fully reading what was said. Just because Brad used the word idiot doesn't imply a personal attack. There's no specific person his title is directed at.....makes you look like an idiot will no doubt take on it's on life now by those wishing to be cute, but it's far different from naming a member and telling them they're an idiot.