Windows 8 Falls Behind Even the Maligned Vista

[Dot Matrix]

That's not typical of user's screens. In fact someone went out of their way to troll with that picture. What is half that junk?

[Kyang]

It does take me back but the search pane is gone so I have to go bring it all up again and let it know I want to search the store and not the default files. Ideally there should just be a search box at the top of the store.

I can totally see the point of apps, on a phone or tablet they are great, but on a big monitor, with lots of space to multitask, its just limiting me.

I'm undecided on the Search myself. I really, really like the idea of a unified location for search, that's in one consistent place, no matter the app, but like you said, sometimes a contextual search should be more obvious.

The best I can offer is that you press Win+Q when in an app. That should activate the search for the app that you're in, rather than search for the system. For example, if you are in the Windows Store, then pressing Win+Q should open a search in the Windows Store, and not elsewhere.

[Co-ords]

I kind of agree with you as far as metro.. not for desktop. I am seriously thinking about moving to Imac as my next purchase.

I must say Windows 7 is a stable version of Windows, but I made the move to a mac 3 years ago, and havn't missed Windows at all!

[Dot Matrix]

[Brandon H Supervisor]

on the contrary. Customizing Windows is one thing.. to enhance or whatever you want to do. What YOU did is hack Windows 8 to be more like Windows 7. How many people that you know hack their Windows 7 to look more like Windows XP? If you have to add something to make it look like last years version..then why not just stick with last years version? The whole point of Windows 8 is lost on you because you want it to function more like Windows 7.

now who's getting it all wrong? the new start screen is only one small part of Windows 8, there have been a lot of other changes made, both on the front and back end of things. I really like a lot of the new desktop enhancements made in Windows 8, I myself have Start8 installed as well but I still find myself using the start screen still depending on what i'm doing

also not hacking, as it's just a program that doesn't even touch system files unlike Transformation Packs which i mention below

You aren't customizing..you're reverting. Big difference.

I'm all for Windows 8 on touch screens. It makes sense. (except for the abomination when it dumps you onto the desktop) but for non touch devices? Bleh.

no there really isn't a difference in this respect. if you want to talk reverting and completely changing, look at transformation packs, that's on a whole other level (which is what you seem to think making one change it)

[+Warwagon MVC]

That's not typical of user's screens. In fact someone went out of their way to troll with that picture. What is half that junk?

Ok, well here is my start screen. I haven't done anything to it.

Now you will say "Well just unpin all that stuff" True I could, though I don't use the start screen I use start8, but I never had to clean any of that stuff up on windows 7

[Kyang]

Nick?

Ok, well here is my start screen. I haven't done anything to it.

Now you will say "Well just unpin all that stuff" True I could, though I don't use the start screen I use start8, but I never had to clean any of that stuff up on windows 7

Actually I think sometimes the user might have had to. Icons are usually created on the desktop, and sometimes in the start menu, unless the user turns off the "Show recently used applications", or whatever it was called.

I usually deslected the option to create a desktop icon, but I think it's obvious what I mean.

[Dot Matrix]

Now you will say "Well just unpin all that stuff" True I could, though I don't use the start screen I use start8, but I never had to clean any of that stuff up on windows 7

That's because it sat buried away in the Start Menu. No one ventures there, so no one ever knew how much clutter it created. Now it's time for installers to clean up their mess. But you're crying over archaic programs that no one ever uses.

[+Warwagon MVC]

That's because it sat buried away in the Start Menu. No one ventures there, so no one ever knew how much clutter it created. Now it's time for installers to clean up their mess.

When I think of the start menu, I don't think of clutter.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Typical users are going to spend lots of time properly categorizing and organizing their Start Screen? Really? The same people who shoved everything on the Desktop as shortcuts before Start Menu search?

Honestly, warwagon's picture was more accurate. They'll have apps plastered all over the start screen like someone sneezed all over their screen.

[Dot Matrix]

When I think of the start menu, I don't think of clutter.

It was cluttered all right, and cramped.

Typical users are going to spend lots of time properly categorizing and organizing their Start Screen? Really? The same people who shoved everything on the Desktop as shortcuts before Start Menu search?

Honestly, warwagon's picture was more accurate. They'll have apps plastered all over the start screen like someone sneezed all over their screen.

So far, I see no evidence of that. I know quite a few users of Windows 8, and they picked up right away that you can move and group tiles.

[xWhiplash]

Typical users are going to spend lots of time properly categorizing and organizing their Start Screen? Really? The same people who shoved everything on the Desktop as shortcuts before Start Menu search?

Honestly, warwagon's picture was more accurate. They'll have apps plastered all over the start screen like someone sneezed all over their screen.

Not to mention these are the same people that have 9....yes I had a few people with 9 (NINE) IE toolbars on their computer. You could barely see the websites, and they did not mind that mess! It is shocking.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

It was cluttered all right, and cramped.

yes and no. at least in the start menu things stayed alphabetized and not just in the order that you installed things

I do not dislike the start screen by any means but I think it could still use a little work (looks forward to windows blue update :))

[xWhiplash]

It was cluttered all right, and cramped.

So far, I see no evidence of that. I know quite a few users of Windows 8, and they picked up right away that you can move and group tiles.

So being organized is now considered to be cluttered? There is a reason they make subfolders and maybe folders in there. Sometimes they have tools where you might use every once and a while, but it was much more organized.

This is like saying a doctors office is not organized because the separate patient files into individual file folders...THAT WAY is MUCH more organized. And the Start Menu WAS MORE organized than the Start Screen because they tucked some advanced tools in sub folders.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

That's because it sat buried away in the Start Menu. No one ventures there, so no one ever knew how much clutter it created. Now it's time for installers to clean up their mess. But you're crying over archaic programs that no one ever uses.

It is impossible for installers to "clean up their mess" as what is needed varies wildly by person and the task that needs to be done. For instance, I don't need to launch the Visual Studio Command Prompt every day, but I do need it occasionally. How would the installer decide when it should create this shortcut and when it shouldn't? Having it buried somewhere that it can be surfaced from effortlessly makes the most sense. This was what the Start Menu did very well in Windows 7. It allows app developers to place shortcuts for everything that may be needed and allowed users to easily dig up those shortcuts when they were needed.

The Start Screen works counter to that. It requires the user to constantly clean up after every installer to get to the same point as Windows 7. Really, if MS wanted to keep it that way they should have placed an intermediary screen between the installer and the Start Screen asking users what shortcuts do they want on their Start Screen out of the 50 the installer has just created. But like most things in Windows 8, this stuff wasn't well thought out.

[Kyang]

Typical users are going to spend lots of time properly categorizing and organizing their Start Screen? Really? The same people who shoved everything on the Desktop as shortcuts before Start Menu search?

Honestly, warwagon's picture was more accurate. They'll have apps plastered all over the start screen like someone sneezed all over their screen.

I guess if it's messy both ways (Start screen, Desktop), then it's not really a fault with the Start Screen. In cases like that, they might still like the Start Screen better, since they'll end up working from that the same way they worked from the desktop. And now they can scroll for more, rather than relying on ever smaller desktop icons.

yes and no. at least in the start menu things stayed alphabetized and not just in the order that you installed things

I do not dislike the start screen by any means but I think it could still use a little work (looks forward to windows blue update :))

So being organized is now considered to be cluttered? There is a reason they make subfolders and maybe folders in there. Sometimes they have tools where you might use every once and a while, but it was much more organized.

This is like saying a doctors office is not organized because the separate patient files into individual file folders...THAT WAY is MUCH more organized. And the Start Menu WAS MORE organized than the Start Screen because they tucked some advanced tools in sub folders.

Stuff is still alphabetized and organized by "Folder" (Albeit they're now expanded) in the "All Apps" part of the Start screen. That hasn't changed. The front end of the Start screen is that part of the Start Menu where all the "Recently used Applications" were.

[Dot Matrix]

So being organized is now considered to be cluttered? There is a reason they make subfolders and maybe folders in there. Sometimes they have tools where you might use every once and a while, but it was much more organized.

This is like saying a doctors office is not organized because the separate patient files into individual file folders...THAT WAY is MUCH more organized. And the Start Menu WAS MORE organized than the Start Screen because they tucked some advanced tools in sub folders.

Nobody wants to dig through subfolders of subfolders.

[linsook]

Typical users are going to spend lots of time properly categorizing and organizing their Start Screen? Really? The same people who shoved everything on the Desktop as shortcuts before Start Menu search?

Honestly, warwagon's picture was more accurate. They'll have apps plastered all over the start screen like someone sneezed all over their screen.

i think that shift has already been made. people organizing their 'icons' in groups or different screens is common now, no?

anecdotal: my father (73) has organized the win8 start to how he likes it. i didn't teach him. hes never owned a smart phone or tablet.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Nobody wants to dig through subfolders of subfolders.

That was the beauty of Start Menu search. The user didn't have to deal with the stuff in the Start Menu that way. The applications would organize their respective icons in logical sub folders and the end user would pull them up via search. 500 shortcuts could be added without cluttering anything. Even Windows was smart enough to only pick one icon to highlight as the "new" application in the menu, even if it created 500 icons on install.

[DonnieJim]

now who's getting it all wrong? the new start screen is only one small part of Windows 8, there have been a lot of other changes made, both on the front and back end of things.

Not even slightly talking about changes made to it's "front and backend" of things. I'm talking about the look, feel and useability of Windows 8 and why you would need a "program" to enable the startmenu when you are so overjoyed with Windows 8 to begin with? Why not just use Windows 8 as Windows 8 instead of adding a "feature" that makes it more like Windows 7? Unless you are admitting that Windows 8 actually functions less that Windows 7..

I really like a lot of the new desktop enhancements made in Windows 8, I myself have Start8 installed as well but I still find myself using the start screen still depending on what i'm doing

Desktop enhancement? Do tell because I'm not seeing any desktop enhancement.

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Stuff is still alphabetized and organized by "Folder" (Albeit they're now expanded) in the "All Apps" part of the Start screen. That hasn't changed.

I was more talking the main start screen (as was posted in the screenshots earlier) not so much the all programs section (which you are correct about btw)

[Dot Matrix]

That was the beauty of Start Menu search. The user didn't have to deal with the stuff in the Start Menu that way. The applications would organize their respective icons in logical sub folders and the end user would pull them up via search. 500 shortcuts could be added without cluttering anything. Even Windows was smart enough to only pick one icon to highlight as the "new" application in the menu, even if it created 500 icons on install.

Funny, when I installed the Office demo, the only icons I got on Start were the main apps. Everything else was buried in All Apps. It's time for other developers to do the same.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

i think that shift has already been made. people organizing their 'icons' in groups or different screens is common now, no?

anecdotal: my father (73) has organized the win8 start to how he likes it. i didn't teach him.

Age isn't a factor in how one decides to organize. I know people who have 10 IE toolbars and a desktop full of shortcuts and files and ones who don't This cuts across age barriers. Probably a lot like people and how clean their car is on the inside. Age isn't a definitive predictor of how clean one will have the inside of their car.

[Kyang]

That was the beauty of Start Menu search. The user didn't have to deal with the stuff in the Start Menu that way. The applications would organize their respective icons in logical sub folders and the end user would pull them up via search. 500 shortcuts could be added without cluttering anything. Even Windows was smart enough to only pick one icon to highlight as the "new" application in the menu, even if it created 500 icons on install.

I don't know what Dot Matrix was saying earlier. Those sub folders are still there, and everything is still organized in them as they were in the Start menu. And just like the Start Menu, the user still has to click "All Applications/Apps" to get to those sub folders.

I was more talking the main start screen (as was posted in the screenshots earlier) not so much the all programs section (which you are correct about btw)

Oh, I see. I guess I'm not sure where this discussion is focused on then, because the functionality that both sides are talking about is still there. Even the way to access that functionality, (In this case, the sub folders where all that extra stuff was organized.) is pretty much the same too.

EDIT: I guess in the main Start screen, MS made a decision to "organize" based on the most recently installed. They just put that stuff at the end of the tiles. Maybe, "Alphabetize" should be an option?

[Brandon H Supervisor]

Not even slightly talking about changes made to it's "front and backend" of things. I'm talking about the look, feel and useability of Windows 8 and why you would need a "program" to enable the startmenu when you are so overjoyed with Windows 8 to begin with? Why not just use Windows 8 as Windows 8 instead of adding a "feature" that makes it more like Windows 7? Unless you are admitting that Windows 8 actually functions less that Windows 7..

when the hell did i say Windows 8 functions less than 7?!? and once again I say, how is adding a start menu any different than adding a dock? both change functionality yet you only seem to dispute the start menu

Desktop enhancement? Do tell because I'm not seeing any desktop enhancement.

you are blind then. let me make a list for you

1. ribbon in explorer

2. improved copy dialog box/algorithm

3. much improved Task manager

those are the top 3 front end changes, there are many more smaller changes in the backend