Microsoft blasts PC makers: It's YOUR fault Windows 8 crash landed


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It goes both ways but with MS's business model, they are still leading the charge so if OEM's weren't ready, thats on them too.

Ballmer has to go.

Absolutely? Developers are still porting, learning, developing. Even MS was late with their own Windows games for Surface. The Music app is crap and the video app leaves a lot to be desired. There is no Zune for Windows 8 to sync phone or tablet with desktop and existing media. They're trying to steer people to Xbox Music subscriptions and Video to create new revenue streams.

They've made a lot of gambles, and outpaced developers including their own in-house developers. So far, it's not really worked well but, they have a monopoly, eventually the thing will sell well, what may not, is their tablet initiative.

Where's the killer Windows 8 only-app? Where's the Killer Surface RT-app? Where's the killer Modern UI-app? Who has announced a great game for Windows 8 to take advantage of anything specifically windows 8? Who's even saying runs great or better on Windows 8?

For goodness sake, there's no true Windows Phone 8 sync app for Windows 8. It is a mess. Will it fail, that would be nearly impossible given the dominance of Windows.

Care to post a source? Because this, this, and this (PDF) say otherwise.

Google Nokia and read all the news reports from today. None of those links you linked to said anything contrary to what I said. They did hit their first profit in ages in Q4, and it was with less phone sales and less revenue than a year before. They also did things like sell their headquarters in Q4 to try to make it into the black.

Read this article entirely: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/25/technology/nokia-shows-a-profit-but-shares-drop.html

I hate to say this, but...some people are still waiting for the first service pack before they jump to Windows 8. I've heard this from everyone I've recommended Windows 8. Oh, and also..."where's the start menu" is a popular one as well.

That relaunch is going to fall flat on it's face, starting Feb Win8 goes back to full price! how exactly is that going to help sales? and encourage more people to upgrade? me thinks MS didn't think things through on that one...

That relaunch is going to fall flat on it's face, starting Feb Win8 goes back to full price! how exactly is that going to help sales? and encourage more people to upgrade? me thinks MS didn't think things through on that one...

Just as a reminder: Windows 7 running at full price never stopped anyone. Vista running at full price never stopped anyone. Even XP running at full price didn't stop people.

I don't believe just one source, I'm just bored of seeing the same Microsoft Defense Force members jumping to attention.

lol - that's funny, I was just thinking i HAVEN'T seen the usual suspects jumping in to defend Microsoft this time.

I was wondering if their contracts with Microsoft to push Windows 8 at all costs has run out, and they are out looking for new jobs now :)

I think MS need to seriously question the people behind Win 8. Actually, I think the powers that be, need to seriously question themselves as they allowed this to happen, following the mess with Vista marketing. Windows 8 could have been a huge success, a Windows 7 with enhancements plus the touch UI if required... instead they tried to tell the educated consumer what they need.

I am so happy that they failed. I really like MS hardware and software but i think they need this wake up call.

Windows 8 is all to do with trying to maintain an old business model that is no longer relevant.

Windows historically released new operating systems, with lots of new features whic required hardware upgrades (memory, CPU etc).

Hardware manufacturers were happy, Microsoft was happy, Users were happy.

The Windows matured. There aren't any new whiz bang features that people want. Vista tried to make everyone go out and spend more money by releasing a CPU/memory hungry O/S but with pretty much ZERO new features. It failed miserably.

Win 7 came along and was fast/clean and allowed everyone who had been suckered into Vista, and even those still running XP to upgrade to a fast and reliable OS with no problems.

Win 8 comes along, again trying to get people to spend more money by basically forcing people to buy new "touch" hardware (its worked in the past - right??)

Nope - sorry Microsoft, people don't want touch on their desktops/laptops. Its slow, cumbersome, error prone and they are quite happy with their exisiting hardware.

You've totally lost the plot, thinking you can take a mobile phone O/S with no ability to connect mouse/keyboard or high res multiple monitors and transplant that to a highly productive, intuitive, desktop environment.

Little wonder you have failed.

As above, the people at Microsoft who thought this up need to be sacked. Sinofsky is a good start, Now get rid of the rest of the deadwood.

I always find it amusing when someone mentions the success of Windows Phone considering Microsoft hasn't gained any market share in almost a year

I was going to buy the Lumia 920, but after seeing the issues with the O/S (reboots/lack of apps)and poor quality hardware (speaker noises, buttons that don't work), I've decided to give it a miss.

It's also a message to Microsoft about Windows 8, even though it no doubt works reasonably on a mobile phone, I'm not going to support it, due to the fact that they are trying to shove it down my (desktop/laptop) throat.

No Choice=No sale

Vista tried to make everyone go out and spend more money by releasing a CPU/memory hungry O/S but with pretty much ZERO new features. It failed miserably.

Vista had plenty of new features. It was fresh code, remember? There was nothing left in it from the XP codebase.

Win 8 comes along, again trying to get people to spend more money by basically forcing people to buy new "touch" hardware (its worked in the past - right??)

Windows 8 does no such thing. I have Windows 8 running on three devices. NONE of them are touch.

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this is akin to guns kill people, forks make people fat, cars make people drive drunk. SMH... when will anybody take responsibility for their own faults and failures?

Well, shouldn't be too surprised, Adam and eve blame shifted too... :/ my bad.. MY Fault.. shame on me.... :laugh:

shame on MS

So wait, Microsoft was expecting that Windows 8 would only be a success if they could get the manufacturers on their side? Ok, that in itself can make sense, but if your whole plan relies on that then why not discuss the hardware guidelines with them so that an agreement can be reached? From the sounds of it such a discussion wasn't had and instead Microsoft thought the manufacturers would just roll with it.

sorry saw this post later. If PC makers can't turn a profit to make a touchscreen PC to run this... they won't make it. MS should have had a sit down dinner and tried to get some feedback

tumblr_lhrwomI6Ok1qdzpuq.gif

really I have't had any problems with Windows 8 and it's been fantastic for me. I have Windows 8 and Windows Server 2012 and I like them both. I don't even use metro apps and I like it.

I like it for the following reasons:

  • faster then windows 7
  • the new explorer UI is way more user friendly as well as more logically laid out so you don't have stuff buried in menus and you can access items typically buried in menu>folder options right in the window.
  • the new file transfer dialog is much more informative.
  • the built in iso mount tool, no need for poweriso!
  • HYPER-V!
  • and some other bits-n-its in various places

Installing:

and it's very satisfying to go from inserting the pen drive into my USB port and turning the computer on and having a fully operational OS and happily playing on the desktop and running programs in less then 15 minutes.

Apologies for not responding as the notice went to my junk email folder for some reason

The same things were probably said of laptops years ago. "Oh no, we can't let "everyday people" have the ability to move their computers around!!!"

Funny, like any delicate piece of electronic equipment, people learned to handle them properly. Sure, if you're careless, you'll pay the price. Otherwise, not a big deal.

Have you seem some of the torture test the Surface has gone through? Hell, folks can get an OtterBox if they're that worried.

I disagree! I see a ton of busted screens from iPads to Android phones everyday - I've got around 60 clients right now and support almost 3k employees at any given time so I see quite a bit. People manage to break NON touch LCDs on laptops.

The surface is a different story, and it's also purpose built for that; Dell has the Latitude ATG edition with touch screen but we shall not go into the pricing to have a "tough" touch screen usable laptop PC.

How often do you seen busted kiosks? I've never seen any. My school has a couple dozen or so throughout campus. The local mall even has a few, and I've never seen one that was broken.

You're comparing expensive kiosks that are made to handle abuse to small laptops with delicate touch screens, not exactly the same thing. I see broken displays all the time around here, from cracks in the touch screens to stuff just not working right. I do live in Louisiana though! :woot:

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    • These are not "great" prices... just "less awful". Apparently "Those who forget the past are doomed to pay higher prices and think they've won."
    • Russia was able to invade Crimea because of those people. But my point is that I've personally heard how great it was to be "back in Russia" right afterwards - look how great it is now. I've asked you a question in another comment which you haven't answered, so I'll ask it again: is it better now without "Europrats"?
    • ZimaBoard 2 1664 Starter Kit review: it's a cool and affordable DIY NAS by Steven Parker IceWhale Technology reached out to me asking if I was interested in testing the ZimaBoard 2, and after convincing them to send me the Starter Kit, it arrived at my doorstep in May. A bit of background: it is a Shanghai-based Chinese company founded in 2020, which specializes in single-board servers and personal cloud solutions. From searching around online, user feedback on the company and ZimaOS is mostly positive, so we're off to a good start. In addition, I should probably point out that although they do not have a large portfolio of NAS devices, with just four of what they do offer, they seem to have covered everything from a relatively low-priced entry point with the ZimaBoard 2, right up to the high end, with the ZimaCube 2 Creator Pack that even includes an NVIDIA RTX PRO 2000. Anyway, as already mentioned, what we have today is the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit, and here are the full specifications: ZimaBoard 2 Model 832, 1664 CPU Intel Core N150 (4x E Cores/Threads, Max burst up to 3.6 GHz) TDP: 6W (Base) 10W (Max) Graphics Intel UHD Graphics 24 EUs (1.00 GHz) Memory 8 GB, 16 GB DDR5 4800MT/s non ECC SODIMM (soldered) Disk Capacity 60 TB (30 TB x 2) Supported RAID Types TRAID, TRAID +, RAID0, RAID1, RAID5, RAID 6, RAID 10 Storage 2 x SATA 3.0 6Gb/s Ports with Power Bootloader 32 GB, 64 GB eMMC Network 2x RJ-45 2.5 GbE PCIe 1 x PCIe 3.0 (via LPC) USB Ports 2 x USB-A 3.1 (5 Gbps) Display Mini-DisplayPort 1.4 (4K@60Hz) Hardware Transcoding Engine H.264, H.265, MPEG-4, VC-1 Maximum resolution: 4K (4096 x 2160); Maximum FPS: 60 Virtualization Intel® AES New Instructions Intel® Virtualization Technology (VT-x) Intel® Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O (VT-d) Size (H/W/D) 140mm x 83mm x 31mm Weight 0.4 kg (only ZimaBoard 2 device) Power 12v 5A Power Supply Warranty 1 year (Global) 2 Years (EU) OS ZimaOS v1.6.1 MSRP $339, $399 ($548.60) As you can see above, there are two variants of the ZimaBoard 2. The lesser variant has half the eMMC storage and 8 GB less RAM, although it also costs $60 less than the top variant we are testing today. The above pricing is only for the ZimaBoard 2. I put the MSRP of the Starter Kit next to it in brackets, although as of publishing, it is discounted to $534.50. The ZimaBoard 2 started life on Kickstarter and shipped to backers in August last year. It became available via the official website in late 2025 and Q1 2026. This hobbyist NAS contains the still relatively new N150 Intel CPU released in the first quarter of 2025, with support for DisplayPort 1.4, HDMI 2.1, although in this case, the memory is integrated into the board itself, so it will not be possible to upgrade or expand the amount. It also supports AV1 decoding, as well as H.264, VP8, VP9, H.265 (8 bit), and H.265 (10 bit). The different capabilities in the Alder Lake-N (and Twin Lake) series are listed below. Processor E-cores L3-cache Turbo clock GPU GPU-clock TDP Intel N355 8 6 MB 3.9 GHz 32 EUs 1.35 GHz 9 W Intel Core 3 N350 3.9 GHz 1.35 GHz 7 W Intel Core i3-N305 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 9 W Intel Core i3-N300 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz Intel N250 4 3.8 GHz 1.25 GHz 6 W Intel Processor N200 3.7 GHz 0.75 GHz Intel N150 3.6 GHz 24 EUs 1 GHz Intel N97 1.2 GHz 12 W Intel Processor N100 3.4 GHz 0.75 GHz 6 W The CPU is part of the Twin Lake series that sits near the bottom of the N-series, designed for low- powered systems and entry-level laptops, and as such has a base level TDP of just 6W. As I have noted before, we are seeing another NAS with a great amount of RAM. It's important to mention that the ZimaBoard 2's memory is integrated into the base board (which is why they have two variants of it). As a reminder, up until a couple of years ago, it was commonplace to only get 2 or 4GB max on a flagship Synology or QNAP home NAS. Ever since the likes of TerraMaster and more have entered the market with ample RAM sizes included in their NAS offerings, it has gone a long way in forcing the hands of the traditional makers to up their game a bit. First impressions The Starter Kit came in one outer box with several packages inside it (shown above). I forgot to take pics of it because when it arrived, it wasn't clear what was inside, and I had to confirm with my contact that I received the entire Starter Kit. In the box ZimaBoard 2 ZimaBoard 2 HDD Expansion Bracket + PCIe card frame Zimaboard Mini DisplayPort Male to HDMI Female Cable 4K 60Hz Zimaboard PCIe 3.0 x4 to Dual NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter Card Quick guide [full online guide] Limited warranty notice Screws Design Where to start? You'd be forgiven for mistaking it as an SSD enclosure if not for all the ports on it. It is completely made out of metal, and the top is an entire heatsink. It has a premium feel about it, but it definitely looks like a hobby device. As you will see, the completed build looks like it belongs in a server or meter closet rather than as a showpiece on someone's desk. On what I am calling the rear, there's a Mini DisplayPort (1.4), two 2.5 GbE ports, with Type A 3.1 USB ports, and then the barrel connector port. Around the front, there are two SATA6 ports with a power connector in the middle. Left side Right side One side is completely free of ports. On the other there's a slit that allows for the feed of a CPU fan cable, and a PCIe 3.0 X4 slot. Top Bottom The top is entirely made up of a heatsink except for the extended height for the I/O on the rear. Around the other side, you can find the ZIMA branding and some regulatory information stamped near the bottom. As you may see from the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2, it scratches quite easily from just moving it around on my Ikea island. Teardown Before we get started, let's have a look at this thing on the inside. The steps to get to the board are as follows: Remove the four smaller Torx screws on the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2; Remove the four larger Torx screws on the sides of the device; Carefully unstick the CMOS battery from the PCB; Remove two Phillips screws on the PCB; Lift out the PCB. Yes, as you can tell from the instructions, you need three different tools to remove Torx and Phillips screws (10 in total), and unhelpfully, one of the screws is located under the CMOS battery, which is stuck onto the PCB. Building Now comes the fun part. Because the ZimaSpace website does not provide any guidance on how to put the Starter Kit together. They only have guidance for connecting the CPU fan. However, they did upload a video to their YouTube channel that shows the entire process. To install the fan, first remove the four screws on the bottom of the ZimaBoard 2, then on the inside, there is a CPU FAN connector where you can attach the fan, reattach the ZimaBoard 2 frame, and feed the fan cable through the provided slit. Then remove the nearest screw on the side and attach the fan frame to the side of the device using the same screw. ZimaBard 2 screws Aligning the screws Bottom view Remember those four screws we removed to access the CPU FAN? Longer screws are provided in the box with the HDD Expansion Bracket, which is what you will now need to attach the ZimaBoard 2 to it. Helpfully, the orientation on how to attach it is made obvious when the frame can only be screwed on at the same overall length as the ZimaBoard 2. If you do it the wrong way around (which is what I did initially) one side hangs off the frame, and it becomes difficult to attach the PCIe Adapter Card cable. PCIe card frame Other side PCIe slot connector Next, it's time to attach the PCIe card frame, which is fastened with the help of 3.5-inch SATA HDD (3 screws). These are toolless screws that you can just use your fingers to fasten them with. Then it is time to connect the provided PCIe cable with the slot connector on one side of the ZimaBoard 2, feed it through the bottom of the HDD frame, and fasten it with two standoffs. Both bracket options 2280 standoffs with 2x 4TB MP44Q The PCIe 3.0 X4 card comes with a short bracket option, handy if you decide to place it inside a different NAS or rack server, but here we need the long bracket. Oddly enough, the M.2 standoffs were preinstalled into the 22110 position, but extra standoffs are included in the box, which I installed at the 2280 position for our use. I added a couple of MP44Q M.2 PCIe 4.0 SSDs (2 x 4TB) that can be availed on Amazon for $478.99 (the lowest price for 3 months) that TEAMGROUP supplied us with Then we have the almost completed build, you just need to push the card into the PCIe slot. Unfortunately, IceWhale Technologies did not provide a screw for the PCIe card frame (this is also apparent in their own video). Here it is at several different angles, with the last pic showing the SATA Y-Cable connected to the two WD Red Plus 4TB drives. Setup and Usage Next, you connect your cables to the I/O, and the ZimaBoard 2 powers on automatically, as there is no power button on the device. Power is controlled through the Settings in ZimaOS. BIOS The ZimaBoard 2 includes an Aptio BIOS from American Megatrends [1, 2, 3], and you can setup pretty much everything here including the boot order, which is locked to the UEFI OS, however above that choice you can enable or disable booting to a SATA/USB bootloader so this would still allow you to switch to an alternative bootloader and boot from it, or disable it to instead always start from the first disk with an OS installed on it. Initial Setup Upon connecting to the LAN and booting up, the ZimaBoard 2 can be reached by navigating to the IP address (shown if you have a monitor connected), or you can find it using the ZIMA Client desktop application, which is essentially a Zima device finder. Initializing the ZimaBoard 2 The ZimaOS setup process is pretty straightforward, through a wizard, and in full above, it basically consists of setting up an account and some handy tips, and that's that! Post Setup (ZimaOS update) Upon first boot, you are alerted that there is a ZimaOS update from 1.5.0 to 1.6.1, which I applied; the full process is shown above with the changelog. ZimaBoard 2 Storage Setup Next, it is time to set up the storage. ZimaOS actually throws everything onto the eMMC flash drive; it is also the default location of AppData, which is definitely something to be wary about, as the 45GB available storage could fill up quickly. HDDs I first attempted to create a Storage Pool using the two 4TB WD Red Plus NAS drives, and got an error message: After several attempts and then looking online, I discovered it was a bug with ZimaOS where the fix was simply to reboot ZimaOS and then try again, this time I was able to create a RAID mirror using the two drives. SSDs I did the same for the SSDs, as you will see in the above gallery, when I created the second Storage Pool, it only allowed me to select available drives. 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In my case, all I had to do was add the media path I just created, which you can also browse to using the folder icon in the path field. In addition, you can now map the new Media library in Windows Explorer using the Zima Client. Oddly enough, it is not possible to access the ZimaBoard 2 over the Network Neighborhood; you must map drives using the client, which is shown in the last image in the above gallery. I watched one of my Blu-Ray rips, which is Dolby Vision with Dolby Atmos, and the content played fine with no stuttering or buffering, which is what anyone needs in this scenario. ZimaBoard 2 Zima Client mobile app There's also a client for mobile. It is pretty barebones, as shown in the above gallery, for example, the Apps screen launches the WebUI for that app, and the Backup must be done manually. On opening Backup, you can select internal storage folders on your phone to backup to the ZimaBoard 2's storage, and although this is constantly scanned, the backup action itself must be manually triggered. There is an option to allow foreground backup (last image in the above gallery), but this basically means the queued backup gets triggered when you manually open the app. Benchmarking SATA PCIe 3.0 X4 A CrystalDiskMark test on a mapped network drive from within a Windows 11 25H2 PC (image above) connected over a 2.5 GbE was well within acceptable ranges. Writes were generally better on the SSD RAID mirror. SATA PCIe 3.0 X1 I also ran the NAS Performance tester, which tests the link speed performance. As you can see, it pretty much maxes out the 2.5GbE connection. Of course, you can also opt to bond the two 2.5 GbE connections for a bit more umph, but I didn't do that. Thermals Top PCIe card SATA HDDs Next, I measured some hotspots while playing content on Plex. It's fair to say this will perform better than a NAS that is enclosed in a metal or plastic case, as almost everything storage-wise is exposed! Anyway, the ZimaBoard 2 did not break a sweat with Plex streaming or disk benchmarks. ZimaOS Factory Reset ZimaOS does not include a factory reset option. Instead, you have to download the ZimaOS image and flash it to the eMMC manually. The flashing process is shown in the above gallery. The steps to do so are listed below: Download the ZimaOS image here; Open BalenaEtcher (Run as Administrator) and select the image; Select your inserted USB drive (min 8 GB) Flash to it; Connect your USB drive, monitor, keyboard, USB hub (optional), mouse (optional), and network cable (recommended) to the ZimaBoard 2; Connect power and press F11 continuously; Select your USB drive starting with UEFI in the boot device menu; Press Enter on the Install ZimaOS option; Select /dev/mmcblk0 (MMC) flash drive as target; Confirm with (three times) to wipe the target disk; Wait a couple of minutes while ZimaOS installs; Remove the USB drive and confirm with a reboot; Your ZimaBoard 2 has been factory reset. However, you don't have to stick with ZimaOS, in fact the company also offers official CasaOS images, that are based on Debian; or as they say themselves, put anything you want on this "hackable single board server" it's up to you. Conclusion I had a lot of fun putting this together. I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, when you purchase through links on our site, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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