Why I posted the poll

[theyarecomingforyou]

Sorry, i updated my post before you quoted it. I updated to explain what i meant a bit more clearly.

Not totally disagreeing with you, more realizing it's a bit of a grey area.

I understand roughly where you're coming from and I don't think the question was "oh my God!" bad but it was obviously going to be hugely controversial, whereas the poll?and subsequent editorial?would have been much more meaningful had the question been asked properly.

[Noir Angel]

Whilst I to some degree understand the original intention of the post (I don't even use Apple products personally) the whole episode was just an example of really bad PR that seems to be getting a bit more common here at Neowin lately, and the juvenile responses of some members, and even to some degree some of the staff are both shocking and saddening, as I said in the other thread I have known Falk for years and he simply isn't a guy that stirs trouble for no reason.

Point is, things do need to change around here. I appreciate that it's impossible to keep people's opinion completely out of articles but seeing things like the "Should be shot" article will just put people off coming here. Trollish flamebait does nothing for anyone. And like it or lump it, the facts is that to anyone that isn't a complete Microsoft shill (and particularly to the users of Apple and Google products) Neowin is a hostile board, and it keeps getting more hostile. And what's worse the majority of the staff do nothing to clean up the trolling in the Google, Apple and Linux threads these days.

The general site stats show declining visitors. The staff blame the members or the nature of the Internet, and the members blame each other. Sooner or later the way Neowin is run has to be looked at, in my opinion changes do need to be made, from the top all the way down to the bottom. Incidents like this are most unsavoury and sooner or later lessons about this have to be learned.

I also must commend Barney's decency and fairness, it's an attitude a lot here could learn from.

[Guest]

It really wasn't an article, it was a simple poll, there was no discussion beyond that as stated in the post. Not sure how anyone could take it so personally or think it was biased in any way, since there was no story/commentary at all to go along with it.

Freedom of speech only applies to the government censoring it's people. It has nothing to do with private media, in the work place, etc.

It's about context. Also, I didn't take it personally. It's just a fact, if you ask someone "do you hate ketchup?", you're priming their response. You've already shown a bias in the way you asked the question. If you were to ask "how do you feel about ketchup?" it is both open to more discussion and it doesnt have a negative connotation in the question. It doesn't mean to say that either would fail to reach the goal but more success is likely to be gained from the latter. Hate is a very strong word. I neither love or hate apple, there's a large spectrum in between though and with a poll like that, you're totally ignoring it.

[xendrome]

It's about context. Also, I didn't take it personally. It's just a fact, if you ask someone "do you hate ketchup?", you're priming their response. You've already shown a bias in the way you asked the question.

I totally disagree, as someone pointed out earlier, if it was asked as "Why do you hate ketchup?" then I could see it, but to take "Do you hate ketchup?" which has a "yes" or "no" answer, and try to turn it around and say you are asking a leading question is completely ridiculous.

[xendrome]

<<Thread Cleaned>> - Serious topic, please don't post generated meme images.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I totally disagree, as someone pointed out earlier, if it was asked as "Why do you hate ketchup?" then I could see it, but to take "Do you hate ketchup?" which has a "yes" or "no" answer, and try to turn it around and say you are asking a leading question is completely ridiculous.

But "do you hate ketchup?" is a leading question. Even asking "do you like Apple?" is a leading question but "like" is generally considered a neutral position, whereas "dislike" is considered much stronger and "hate" is the extreme end. The point is there is an agenda, just like asking "do you think Bill Gates a paedophile?" - I mean, that's a neutral question, right? The fact that it was about Apple, when Neowin is generally considered a Windows site, only exacerbated the issue. Limiting the response to "yes" and "no", while slanting the question is simply bad journalism - as is pre-determining the editorial that will follow it. This was compounded by Scorpus only apologising for the upset, not the poll itself.

I haven't seen any indication that staff at Neowin actually understand why people are annoyed / critical of the decision.

[+Warwagon MVC]

This reminds me of a thread I made about a year ago. Asking why Mac's are overpriced, or something like that. The thread was like a wildfire. Within an hour I had like 20 pages. Then it got closed. The debate (for a lack of a better word) going inside the thread was AWESOME! Within 2 hours the thread got locked. I was sad :(

[Pikey]

I'm already looking forward to the next Weekend poll , it's going to be MASSIVE!!

[bandit_liberty_rumble]

I'm already looking forward to the next Weekend poll , it's going to be MASSIVE!!

Maybe one to get a read on what people think of this site. I suggest a neutral question like 'Do you think Neowin is going down the drain?' ;)

[compl3x]

Regardless of people's opinions, this topic was necessary for the healing process.

Healing process? You don't think that is just a wee bit dramatic? This is concerning a poll on an Internet forum, not the aftermath of a school massacre.

[theyarecomingforyou]

Healing process? You don't think that is just a wee bit dramatic? This is concerning a poll on an Internet forum, not the aftermath of a school massacre.

Considering that it contributed to some valued, long term members deciding to leave the site, no. And I never claimed the poll was at all comparable to a school massacre - in fact, I acknowledged that it wasn't very important in the grand scheme of things. I think my position has been very clear.

PS - Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to call my post "dramatic" and then invoke the notion of a school massacre in the next sentence?

[Xoligy]

This is why the site is going down hill, people think its ok for the front page to have flamebait titles and for the editors to call users idiots (last title that caused issues). The thing your all forgetting is that the news page is where 90% of new users land and if they are greeted with these types of titles then its just not good for the site, its also not good for the forums because people think the attitude can carry on from the news pages onto the forums.

It seems everyone is just hating on everyone these days and thats not a welcoming community! I have not read the ten pages but i can tell you im not an apple fan but i did not agree with the poll, i dont really care if scorp was going to doa follow up thread afterward either and here is why... If i started a thread with the same title it would be closed within an hour even if i explained what i was doing, i would be told its against the forum rules and causing problems, its like the thread someone started saying "What do you think of Neowin?" within 40minutes i think it was, it was closed and the rules were pointed out, why is this whole site full of hate?

Sorry to say but im fed up with this forum, it use to be the first site i loaded up and checked the tech news but i stopped doing that after the idiot calling, now its polls that are asking people if they hate something? There are much better ways the "News" team could grab peoples attention but they seem to go for the stupid way that gets them into trouble then they say they are doing there job and that they have "different" rules but different rules does not mean you still dont show others respect and it certainly does not mean you should be pushing away existing or new comer's to the site because they disagreed with you.

Oh and one last thing before the grammar police appear, yes i know my english sucks but i really dont care.

Anyway have fun all, im only logging in once more and thats in a weeks time im done with this site, members and staff.

[Scorpus Veteran]

The general site stats show declining visitors.

Actually that's not true. 2012 was a record year for us.

[#Michael]

Actually that's not true. 2012 was a record year for us.

What I find very funny is that you are continuing to post in the thread to justify what happened. My advice....quit while you are ahead and let this die out already. The more you continue to comment the more this continues to be an issue. Be the bigger person and let it go.

[compl3x]

Considering that it contributed to some valued, long term members deciding to leave the site, no. And I never claimed the poll was at all comparable to a school massacre - in fact, I acknowledged that it wasn't very important in the grand scheme of things. I think my position has been very clear.

PS - Don't you think it's a bit hypocritical to call my post "dramatic" and then invoke the notion of a school massacre in the next sentence?

No. No. No. I think you misunderstood me.

The idea of a "healing process" is something you would associate with the likes of the aftermath of a school shooting or a devastating natural disaster, not the aftermath of a bunch of crying children on the Internet defending/criticising a tech company. I never said you compared the poll to a school shooting. I don't even think I implied anything remotely like that.

What kind of person leaves a forum because of a poll? Unless the poll was something like "Is rape ever justifiable?", leaving is, again, a dramatic response.

[Growled Member]

What I find very funny is that you are continuing to post in the thread to justify what happened. My advice....quit while you are ahead and let this die out already. The more you continue to comment the more this continues to be an issue. Be the bigger person and let it go.

I agree. All we are doing now is fanning the flames.

[theyarecomingforyou]

No. No. No. I think you misunderstood me.

The idea of a "healing process" is something you would associate with the likes of the aftermath of a school shooting or a devastating natural disaster, not the aftermath of a bunch of crying children on the Internet defending/criticising a tech company. I never said you compared the poll to a school shooting. I don't even think I implied anything remotely like that.

Ah, that's probably a cultural difference. Apologies for any confusion. :)

[The Norwegian Drone Pilot]

What I find very funny is that you are continuing to post in the thread to justify what happened. My advice....quit while you are ahead and let this die out already. The more you continue to comment the more this continues to be an issue. Be the bigger person and let it go.

Wow, such an attitude for something little as just asking a simple question if you hate Apple.

Grow some balls and let the man be here and talk like everyone else. Do you think the image of this site here will be good if everyone is crying rivers like you do here?

Infact, it's you the users who are destroying the webpage image and not the mods or admins as you think.

Take a look at this under.......

Its called learning to tolerate others and their views...whether you like it or not. I am sure there are things you do that others do not like. Goes back to what my parents told me when growing up...dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all. Yes, sometimes things get out of hand ,but when it happens more often than not...then you have a problem.

I know people who likes American Idol, Soap Operas, Bad Girls Club, and yes,,,WWE. To each their own. They are not making me watch it or forcing it on others, so it really doesnt impact me.

And people trolling and posting certain comments are not doing so to show their intelligence. They do so to stirr up trouble. An intelligent person would be able to post maturely without causing any kind of back lash.

Here is something you should learn BlendedFrog.

[remixedcat]

this is just like chuckecheese where mama bears fight eachother becuase one baby bear stole tokens from the other's baby bear.

[Steven P. Administrators]

We had an idea for a feature and some people found this offensive (lol internetz), the author then apologized and explained his reasoning for the post in the first place, end of story.

Berating our editor isn't going to change events. Therefore, closed, thanks to members for support on this issue.