Plus Points: Sony's PS Plus humiliates the game industry


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I think that something might be mentioned on the 20th. I've got the 3G and love it, it was only about ?15 more than the WiFi version at the time, and given that you got WipEout for free, it was pretty much a no brainer for me.

Good deal then. I can make do without 3G anyway; I have done on my iPhone for the past year. If data fees were a hell of a lot less than they are at the moment, I might reconsider.

Good deal then. I can make do without 3G anyway; I have done on my iPhone for the past year. If data fees were a hell of a lot less than they are at the moment, I might reconsider.

I picked up a PAYGO T-Mobile SIM on eBay for ?18 which gives 500mb download a month for the year for free. Saved me paying out ?7.50-10 a month for the Vita.

I picked up a PAYGO T-Mobile SIM on eBay for ?18 which gives 500mb download a month for the year for free. Saved me paying out ?7.50-10 a month for the Vita.

...that's pretty god damn impressive.

Xbox 360 had a full year headstart over PS3, it could afford to charge people for Live, if they launched side by side I think the numbers would have been a lot different.

Xbox Live has been a pay service since its launch (IIRC), 360 head start has nothing to do with it.

It's been given a drop in Japan so would expect the other regions to get one soon too. Rumours of a 4G version as well with the 3G price dropping to the same as just WiFi on it's own.

Too bad a price cut alone wont be nearly enough to save it.

Xbox Live has been a pay service since its launch (IIRC), 360 head start has nothing to do with it.

Of course it did, there was no alternative console to play, so if you wanted to play online you had to pay to get Xbox Live Gold.

If PS3 had launched side by side with free multiplayer I don't think Live would have any anywhere near as popular.

Of course it did, there was no alternative console to play, so if you wanted to play online you had to pay to get Xbox Live Gold.

If PS3 had launched side by side with free multiplayer I don't think Live would have any anywhere near as popular.

XBL launched in 2002, 3 years before 360 came out.

What's that got to do with Xbox 360?

Did you care to read what I had written?

PS3 wasn't out, if you wanted next gen you got an Xbox 360 and if you wanted to play online you had to get a Gold subscription, had PS3 launched side by side with its FREE multiplayer I don't think you would be seeing the kind of numbers Live has at the minute.

What's that got to do with Xbox 360?

Did you care to read what I had written?

PS3 wasn't out, if you wanted next gen you got an Xbox 360 and if you wanted to play online you had to get a Gold subscription, had PS3 launched side by side with its FREE multiplayer I don't think you would be seeing the kind of numbers Live has at the minute.

Yes, I did. I am just questioning your theory that Microsoft "got away" with a paid service because PS3 launched an year later. XBL launched in 2002 and made it big with Halo 2 in 2004-5 before Xbox 360 launched. It was successful no matter what happened between 360-PS3 (not to mention PSN that debuted with PS3 was not really comparable to XBL at the time).

It was successful because PS2 didn't have an online service, any game that was online capable for PS2 the servers were run by the developer of the game.

uh? so now you are saying Xbox 360's head start didn't have anything to do with paid nature of XBL? why bring PS2 into this when it didn't have any centralized online service?

uh? so now you are saying Xbox 360's head start didn't have anything to do with paid nature of XBL? why bring PS2 into this when it didn't have any centralized online service?

You were the one bringing Xbox Live for the first xbox into it. All I was saying is that Xbox Live got a foothold because it was the first online service for a console and that it didn't have any competition, the Xbox sold 24 million, the PS2 has sold 150 million, then with the next generation it had a full year head start so if you wanted next gen and wanted to play online you HAD to get Xbox Live Gold. Had they launched side by side I think things would have been a bit different.

PS3 is already catching up sales wise despite Xbox having a year headstart and will probably surpass them in the not to distant future.

I remember when o2 did these for iPhone 4, years worth of data for ?15. Might grab one, does the year start when I activate it?

I believe it's activated by the guys that sell before posting. They need to be activated on an iPhone I believe, I guess if you have access to one you could message the seller and ask him to not activate it.

Perfect for the Vita where I was previously tethering my mobile to it. Now I don't have to worry.

You were the one bringing Xbox Live for the first xbox into it. All I was saying is that Xbox Live got a foothold because it was the first online service for a console and that it didn't have any competition, the Xbox sold 24 million, the PS2 has sold 150 million, then with the next generation it had a full year head start so if you wanted next gen and wanted to play online you HAD to get Xbox Live Gold. Had they launched side by side I think things would have been a bit different.

PS3 is already catching up sales wise despite Xbox having a year headstart and will probably surpass them in the not to distant future.

Right, all I said that XBL was a hit even before Xbox 360/PS3 came out because of Halo 2. You implied earlier that XBL worked because PS3 came out a year later whereas it was already a success in the previous generation (even if on a smaller scale).

I am not interested in getting into sales thing, factors and results are already well known. :/

I believe it's activated by the guys that sell before posting. They need to be activated on an iPhone I believe, I guess if you have access to one you could message the seller and ask him to not activate it.

Perfect for the Vita where I was previously tethering my mobile to it. Now I don't have to worry.

That's a shame, would have loved to have kept one aside just in case I needed the internet on something. I don't have access to an iPhone to be able to activate it.

Gone up a little but still a decent price for 12 months data.

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43b556ed07

?18.99. Still pretty god damn impressive. Better coverage now too, as T-Mobile merged with Orange to become EE. I don't mind them activating it either; there are two iPhones in the house here, but they're both locked to O2, so I wouldn't be able to activate, and I've no need to pay the money to unlock mine, as I'm on giffgaff. The only concern I have is it says you get unlimited data browsing, but 500MB of downloading each month, so what's their way of differentiating between browsing and downloading? Because browsing technically is downloading. I'd assume playing online games on the Vita would fall under the downloading criteria.

?18.99. Still pretty god damn impressive. Better coverage now too, as T-Mobile merged with Orange to become EE. I don't mind them activating it either; there are two iPhones in the house here, but they're both locked to O2, so I wouldn't be able to activate, and I've no need to pay the money to unlock mine, as I'm on giffgaff. The only concern I have is it says you get unlimited data browsing, but 500MB of downloading each month, so what's their way of differentiating between browsing and downloading? Because browsing technically is downloading. I'd assume playing online games on the Vita would fall under the downloading criteria.

Given that there aren't any games that you can effectively play online via 3G it's limited to things like posting near data, email, collecting GPS data for apps like TravelBug, T@G or the turn based games like the card based Uncharted game or Pure Chess.

You were the one bringing Xbox Live for the first xbox into it. All I was saying is that Xbox Live got a foothold because it was the first online service for a console and that it didn't have any competition, the Xbox sold 24 million, the PS2 has sold 150 million, then with the next generation it had a full year head start so if you wanted next gen and wanted to play online you HAD to get Xbox Live Gold. Had they launched side by side I think things would have been a bit different.

PS3 is already catching up sales wise despite Xbox having a year headstart and will probably surpass them in the not to distant future.

How many Xbox360s did Microsoft sell before the PS3 came out? 4-5 million xbox360s? How many of those were Live? lets say half. But now there are over 40 million XBOX Live users,therefore even if they launched side by side,it would have made zero of a difference.

And sales wise, PS3 has a good 9 million on XBOX360 in Japan. Its Japan,sonys home turf,and they make software tailor made for that market. And who cares about those numbers anyways when its the software sales that matter. XBOX360 destroys PS3 in software sales. They sell massively more software,and that's where the profit is.

I'm confused..... What did I do? :p Or is this a jab at my golden boy :)

Just a Golden Boy quote. I believe that's exactly what he's saying in the scene your avatar comes from. I can't believe I ran across that in my collection just a couple weeks ago (Hello again, high school memories).

Just a Golden Boy quote. I believe that's exactly what he's saying in the scene your avatar comes from. I can't believe I ran across that in my collection just a couple weeks ago (Hello again, high school memories).

Ah ya lol. When he's working at the computer programing place. I love his interpretation of C+ into sexual bases :p Sure is some old memories of watching this :)

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    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
    • Cheers everyone for the replies. It's been very useful. 👍
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