[Growled Member]

except it's not the way it should work and just goes to show all the more how are system in the US is broken

I can't argue with you on that.

[mudslag]

So customers are allowed to complain but the employees ain't? I think this falls under freedom of speech.

People need to learn that "freedom of speech" is limited to gov restrictions on saying something, not to a private employer over their employees.

[Hum]

I'll speak for some Christians here, but that "pastor" is an ass, there's no Biblical reason he can claim to make that idiotic comment, and like some have said, it just makes all Christians look really bad

The 10% idea comes from the Bible, called 'tithing':

While tithing is certainly a biblical concept, some churches teach that it is commanded of Christians, and some teach that it isn't. What does the Bible teach regarding tithing under the New Covenant?

In order to understand how tithing fits (or doesn't fit) into the life of a Christian, we must first examine tithing as it was originally commanded, it's purposes, and it's meaning. For this we go to the Old Testament.

The word "tithe" simply means "tenth," and as it is used in the Bible, it refers to giving a "tenth" to God. "A tenth of what?," you might ask. This will be discovered as Scriptures regarding the tithe are studied.

Abraham and Jacob Tithe Before the Law

The first time a tithe is referred to in Scripture is in Genesis 14:18-20, where we read:

And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Abram had just returned from defeating several kings to rescue his nephew Lot who had been taken captive, as well as goods that were taken. When Melchizidek blessed Abram, Abram gave Melchizidek a tenth "of all." This "tithe" is not limited to income, but clearly includes a tenth of all of Abram's possessions. A similar tithe is seen with Jacob, in Genesis 28:10-22, where Jacob pledges that if God blesses him, he would give a tenth back to God. In both of these instances, the tithe is made before the law to tithe is given, but this offering is made in response to blessing, out of thanksgiving.

The tithe is first given as law in Leviticus 27:30-33. This consisted of "all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree" (vs.30); specifically, it consisted of livestock, grain, fruit, and the like. If desired, a man could "redeem" part or all of his tithe with money, but if he did so, he was required to add 20 percent ("a fifth" - vs. 31) of the value to it (in other words, a man wishing to "redeem" his tithe [keep it for himself] was required to pay 120 percent of the value of the tithe). This apparently only applied to the tithe from the land. It seems that animals could not be redeemed. Animals were to be chosen by counting every tenth, and not deciding between "good" or "bad" animals - almost a random picking based on the animals passing before the shepherd and choosing every tenth animal. If a man wanted to substitute an animal for one of the animals to be set aside for the Lord, both animals were then considered holy, and neither could be redeemed. (The entire 27th chapter of Leviticus focuses on dedicating things to the Lord, and concludes with the tithe).

In Numbers 18:20-32, God gives the reason for the tithe seen in Leviticus 27 - to support the Levitical priesthood (cf. Nehemiah 10:37-39). Since the Lord specified that the Levites would "have no inheritance" among the Israelites, the tithe was given to them "for an inheritance, for their service which they serve, even the service of the tabernacle of the congregation." (Num. 18:21,31). Aaron himself was told that he would have no inheritance among the Israelites as well, but that God was his share and inheritance (Num. 18:20). God then specifies that the Levites were to give a tenth (tithe) of all the tithes they received to Aaron (Num. 18:25-29) - this was "the Lord's portion".

It is interesting to note that the "tithe" is mentioned very few times in the New Testament, and of the times it is mentioned, none is in the context of a command.

Jesus scolds the "scribes and Pharisees" in Matthew 23:23-24 as having tithed but having "omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith" (verse 23; cf. Luke 11:42), thus showing that there were other parts of the law considered "more important" than the tithe. He then continues, stating that "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Notice however, that when Christ says this, "ought ye to have" is past tense. This is what they should have done. Also note that Jesus is speaking to Jewish Pharisees and scribes, not Christians, so this cannot be used to support the idea that Christians should tithe.

In Luke 18:9-14, Jesus tells a parable of a Pharisee and a tax collector who go to the temple to pray. The Pharisee boasts of his tithing, among other things, and the tax collector simply asks for mercy (nothing is mentioned of tithing in the case of the tax collector). Yet in this parable, the tax collector, not the Pharisee, goes away justified (of course, the primary focus of this parable, as stated in verse 14, is a lesson in humility - nonetheless, the principle of being justified without tithing, or not being justified despite tithing, is still present).

http://www.thebiblepage.org/biblesays/tithing.shtml

I personally would rather give a donation directly to the poor, or those in trouble rather than a particular Church. ;)

[Growled Member]

I personally would rather give a donation directly to the poor, or those in trouble rather than a particular Church.

If I know a need I don't mind giving but a few of the poor are just scam artists trying to get your money. You have to be careful who you give to these days.

[LUTZIFER]

The price we pay to eat out is already ridiculous enough as it is, then there's tax, so 10 to 15 percent on top for a tip makes it even more ridiculous.

[LaP]

I usually tip 15% if the service is good. I left nothing only once cause the waiter was really bad and the food was bad too.

[mudslag]

The price we pay to eat out is already ridiculous enough as it is, then there's tax, so 10 to 15 percent on top for a tip makes it even more ridiculous.

going out to eat is a choice, much more so then someone's job options.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

I'm not sure what the rub is here. Tips are optional. A person can decide not to tip you for whatever reason they want. Like any gift, it is appreciated, but not expected.

If any restaurant added a tip to my bill and I wasn't happy with the service I would have it removed. The tip added on a bill automatically is a suggestion, not a mandate.

Do you get paid full pay for your job? Most of the service type industry, restaurants, bars, delivery type jobs, ect... don't pay their workers minimum wage, they include the tips as part of that wage. Many of those places even pool the tips or share them with say the bus boy or kitchen help, which cuts more into someone's daily wage even more. So instead of just tip based on someone being hot or not, tip knowing that it's the right thing to do.

What is the right thing to do? I'm not following your logic here...

Companies in the US can't lower their staffs pay below minimum wage unless there are enough earned in tips to ensure that their actual take home would be equal to (or higher than) the current minimum wage rate. So, mandatory tipping only helps the restaurant owner, not the wait staff or anyone who earns tips.

The right thing to do is to tip only when you think it is well deserved.

[Rippleman]

you tip because servers dont make any money otherwise. when i was a server i was making 2.50/hr so i needed my tips....that just the law in the states. if you guys want it to change then lobby your congressional reps.

its not the customers fault you/people accepted an illegal wage. Back when i was a waiter (18-20) min. wage for $5.40 /hr and that's what we got. I hated the idea behind tips even though I accepted them.

[Joshie]

It amazes me that people are angry when there's a mandatory tip yet ask for the cost to be worked into the price of the food.

You'd be paying the money either way. The difference is, if you dine in smaller parties, you're spared some of the cost because you have less of an impact on restaurant space and the waiter's attention.

All that really matters, though, is that this pastor is an attention ######. I can guarantee that restaurant had a note about the automatic tip printed in a readily visible place, and it's a very--VERY--common thing to see. If it bothered him so much that he had to bring his god into it, he never should've dined there in the first place.

By choosing to dine there, and then choosing to stiff the wait staff, he made it clear that this was all about him and his soap box and he had zero shame dragging people who had NOTHING to do with the rule into his noise.

[Dinggus]

Now she's fired.

[Twiddle]

Where I agree you should tip based on service; almost every restaurant I have ever been too has automatic gratuity on parties over either six or eight. This is common knowledge among, well, everyone. You knew better before you ate there, thus you cannot complain about it. If you don't want to pay that, go elsewhere.

It's as simple as that. You know their rules before you ate there, so don't be cheap when the bill comes out.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

Plain and simple this so called "pastor" was being cheap and blaming his/her god. imo

Picture of common statements found on menus regarding gratuities:

[Hum]

Some people here missed that at many restaurants, the tips get divided and shared equally, deserved or not.

[+Raze Subscriber²]

^^ that's true.

[jorel009]

I'm not sure what the rub is here. Tips are optional. A person can decide not to tip you for whatever reason they want. Like any gift, it is appreciated, but not expected.

If any restaurant added a tip to my bill and I wasn't happy with the service I would have it removed. The tip added on a bill automatically is a suggestion, not a mandate.

What is the right thing to do? I'm not following your logic here...

Companies in the US can't lower their staffs pay below minimum wage unless there are enough earned in tips to ensure that their actual take home would be equal to (or higher than) the current minimum wage rate. So, mandatory tipping only helps the restaurant owner, not the wait staff or anyone who earns tips.

The right thing to do is to tip only when you think it is well deserved.

yes they can, in many states if you are aa server they can pay you below min wage....no exception. unless you have a link that contradicts this (which you wont find), then you should start to change your attitudes about the service industry.

edit: i did some of your reaserch for you - http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm

[Mr. Gibs]

yes they can, in many states if you are aa server they can pay you below min wage....no exception. unless you have a link that contradicts this (which you wont find), then you should start to change your attitudes about the service industry.

Read what he said, again.

The employer can pay you below minimum wage ONLY if you make up the remainder in tips. If you don't, the employer has you pay you minimum wage.

It even says it on the link you provided:

Maximum Tip Credit Against Minimum Wage

[jorel009]

He means it shouldn't be legal to massively underpay your workers just because they make tips. It's pathetic.

lol well when ever that magical utopian world exists let me know. here on planet earth, what shouldn't and what should be are fairy tales.

[dvb2000]

The server added: ?They had no problem with my service, and told me I was great. They just didn?t want to pay when the time came.?

This is what's wrong with the USA. 18% tip - you've got to be JOKING.

0% is the standard tip in Australia. Only foreigners who come here tip our waiters, and then set false expectations that the rest of us somehow "owe" waiters a tip!

[jorel009]

Read what he said, again.

The employer can pay you below minimum wage ONLY if you make up the remainder in tips. If you don't, the employer has you pay you minimum wage.

It even says it on the link you provided:

that only goes into effect if they dont meet the Definition of Tipped Employee stipulation....but most ppl are going to make at least $30 of tips in a month and if that happends, then you dont get the pay ajustment. every state is different.

This is what's wrong with the USA. 18% tip - you've got to be JOKING.

0% is the standard tip in Australia. Only foreigners who come here tip our waiters, and then set false expectations that the rest of us somehow "owe" waiters a tip!

...ugh why do you foreigner?s jump into these threads and bitch about things you dont know anything about? tell you what aussies, if we need advice on how to wrestle crocodiles and get killed by stingrays...we will give you a call.

[Guth]

Not much can be added to this thread but I wanted to add that although tips aren't expected or mandatory here in the UK. I usually give one, even if its just rounding the amount to an even number

however, I've never had such nice courteous service as I've had in the US the three times I've been there. The waitress/waters were so nice and helpful.

I put that down to the fact they know (or expect) the are getting a tip from you.

[Mr.XXIV]

And this is why I am sick and tired of these so-called anti-religious "activists".

If I wrote that I am Chinese and I pay no more than 10% to custom (Which is true to our culture), I bet no one would be like, "This is why I hate all Chinese people", which is considered hate speech. Double standards FTW.

I am not defending this person though, saying you are a pastor and saying you pay no more than 10% is a poor excuse of being cheap. On the other hand, mandatory tipping is BS. It keeps creeping up. Back then it was 10%, then it became 15, and now it's mandatory 18? Wtf?

I'm Catholic. I believe in God. I just hate those who take advantage.

[Doli]

Just watched this on the news and the waitress was fired for posting it.

[remixedcat]

I always tip ghood to good waiters and bad for bad ones...

one was so freaking nice she got 20 dollars from me

one was a apathetic bitch so she got a penny in the cup of OJ I had.

[Mr. Gibs]

lol well when ever that magical utopian world exists let me know. here on planet earth, what shouldn't and what should be are fairy tales.

That magical utopian world is the rest of the world. Only in America (and not all the states even) can you underpay employees because they get tipped.

that only goes into effect if they dont meet the Definition of Tipped Employee stipulation....but most ppl are going to make at least $30 of tips in a month and if that happends, then you dont get the pay ajustment. every state is different.

Thanks for repeating exactly what I said.