Do you want the start menu in Windows 8?

[Dot Matrix]

I bought a new AiO yesturday (Envy23) and it appears all the new HP Win8 PCs (touch and non-touch) are shipping with their new 'Quick Start' that is basically a Start Menu replacement as well. While I can see it being as useless as Dell's 'dock', it still interesting when one of the biggest OEMs felt the need to add it too.

They shipped that crap with Windows 7 too, nothing new.

[Dashel]

While the name is the same, the product is new.

"In Windows 8, the Start button and Start menu from previous versions of Windows has been replaced with the Start screen. As an alternative to using the new Windows 8 Start screen, HP Quick Start organizes your apps in a format that resembles the traditional Windows Start menu."

Again, that anyone is so opposed to something they would never use is mind numbing. Pokki and now HP have shown the outlines of what a 'modern', touch friendly, app integrated Start could be in the familiar Desktop environment. Even for the naysayers, are you really telling me that the classic Start menu is smaller than a phone? Funny, seems like that format is what started the new rage.

If we are really going to run with the 'Desktop as an app' metaphor, then why the frak do you care what the app contains?

[Windows Nashville]

Yeah, you're right, there is no rational thought to advancing technology. Who the **** am I kidding.

Since Win 8 was announced most of your posts have been about insulting other Neowinians for not agreeing with your vision of how the technology should advance. Sorry, but that's not rational.

[Shane Ekanayake]

no but start screen need more features

[xWhiplash]

Since Win 8 was announced most of your posts have been about insulting other Neowinians for not agreeing with your vision of how the technology should advance. Sorry, but that's not rational.

And technology CAN advance EVEN if they give us an option to use the old style interface and never see the Start Screen or hot corners.

People here are acting like if an option was provided, the world would end.

NOTE: I am talking about the desktop version. Shouldn't the installer have the capability to detect if a touch-supported device is connected? If touch screen monitor is not found, give us the option on what type of interface we want. if a touch screen monitor is found, force it on us if it HAS to be forced.

But come on. Who are you (Dot and others) to tell me what I should do with my computer? I prefer the folders inside folders inside folders approach that the Start MENU had. I DO NOT like having all items visible and in my face every time I go to the All Apps portion of the Start Screen.

I do this same thing for papers and documents. Everything I have are in folders. If I need my Insurance information, I have a main Insurance folder, then a Health Insurance folder, and multiple folders for the company.

It is called being organized.

If you just throw your insurance papers with everything else, that is fine. But I am a very organized person. So I prefer the start menu. It is not because I am resistant to change, I have had Windows 8 since launch and still have it installed. But the Start Screen is not better in that respect. Those of you that say it is the same as the start menu only better ignore the fact that it is less organized.

Those of you saying it is the same as the start menu. The fact that the start menu has expandable and collapsable folders, and the start screen does not have something similar already means it is not the same....

[Dot Matrix]

And technology CAN advance EVEN if they give us an option to use the old style interface and never see the Start Screen or hot corners.

People here are acting like if an option was provided, the world would end.

NOTE: I am talking about the desktop version. Shouldn't the installer have the capability to detect if a touch-supported device is connected? If touch screen monitor is not found, give us the option on what type of interface we want. if a touch screen monitor is found, force it on us if it HAS to be forced.

But come on. Who are you (Dot and others) to tell me what I should do with my computer? I prefer the folders inside folders inside folders approach that the Start MENU had. I DO NOT like having all items visible and in my face every time I go to the All Apps portion of the Start Screen.

I do this same thing for papers and documents. Everything I have are in folders. If I need my Insurance information, I have a main Insurance folder, then a Health Insurance folder, and multiple folders for the company.

It is called being organized.

If you just throw your insurance papers with everything else, that is fine. But I am a very organized person. So I prefer the start menu. It is not because I am resistant to change, I have had Windows 8 since launch and still have it installed. But the Start Screen is not better in that respect. Those of you that say it is the same as the start menu only better ignore the fact that it is less organized.

Those of you saying it is the same as the start menu. The fact that the start menu has expandable and collapsable folders, and the start screen does not have something similar already means it is not the same....

What's it going to advance to when you're still using a mouse? There's new PCs and devices coming to market that can't use the point and click UI of Windows past anymore. Point me to one source that is still developing point and click technology. Microsoft certainly isn't. They're hard at work with touch and Kinect technologies, heck they're even working with augmented reality technologies, along with Google, and other independent developers.

Look at all the forward thinking technologies and devices, and you'll see that the traditional point and click desktop UI doesn't have a shot at surviving on these things. That's where things are going.

Also, I again ask why you are continuing to use the All Apps menu. You're just torturing yourself. Why not use Search? It's quicker, and doesn't "get in your face".

[+Warwagon MVC]

Also, I again ask why you are continuing to use the All Apps menu. You're just torturing yourself. Why not use Search? It's quicker, and doesn't "get in your face".

Start menu search is just as fast, doesn't take up your entire screen and gives you all of it's findings in 1 box, you don't have to click multiple categories to find what you want.

As far as point and click. When sitting at my desk doing book work with quickbooks, I do not want to have to be touching my screen. God NO! I'm very productive with my mouse and keyboard.

Next you will be telling us that desktop keyboards will be going away for desktop computers because on desktop computers you will just use onscreen keyboards.

[kaffra]

yes. I've tried win8, start menu is just one of the annoyances. i'll continue to use win7 for now.

[Dot Matrix]

Next you will be telling us that desktop keyboards will be going away for desktop computers because on desktop computers you will just use onscreen keyboards.

I specifically said "point and click UI". AKA using the mouse. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I specifically said "point and click UI". AKA using the mouse. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I said "Next you will be telling us" meaning you haven't said it yet! :D

[Mr. Gibs]

Start menu search is just as fast, doesn't take up your entire screen and gives you all of it's findings in 1 box, you don't have to click multiple categories to find what you want.

Can the start menu search within apps? No it can't.

Here's an example, I can press the windows key, type in Neowin and press Chrome. Chrome opens up with a google search for Neowin.

Here's another one. Want to watch Top Gear on netflix? Win key -> Top Gear -> Click netflix. Netflix opens with top gear selected.

[Arceles]

Can the start menu search within apps? No it can't.

Here's an example, I can press the windows key, type in Neowin and press Chrome. Chrome opens up with a google search for Neowin.

Here's another one. Want to watch Top Gear on netflix? Win key -> Top Gear -> Click netflix. Netflix opens with top gear selected.

It's called jump list and it does exist also in the start menu.

[George P Global Moderator]

It's called jump list and it does exist also in the start menu.

Jump lists are hardly used by every app, at the most you only get a recent list of files you've opened with the app. That's hardly the same thing as the examples given.

[Dot Matrix]

It's called jump list and it does exist also in the start menu.

App pinning to the taskbar also has jumplists. But in this context Jumplists =/= in app searching.

[TheLegendOfMart]

What's it going to advance to when you're still using a mouse? There's new PCs and devices coming to market that can't use the point and click UI of Windows past anymore. Point me to one source that is still developing point and click technology. Microsoft certainly isn't. They're hard at work with touch and Kinect technologies, heck they're even working with augmented reality technologies, along with Google, and other independent developers.

Look at all the forward thinking technologies and devices, and you'll see that the traditional point and click desktop UI doesn't have a shot at surviving on these things. That's where things are going.

Also, I again ask why you are continuing to use the All Apps menu. You're just torturing yourself. Why not use Search? It's quicker, and doesn't "get in your face".

Bored of this rhetoric, do you have stocks in Microsoft or something?

Every thread that has even the smallest dig at Windows 8 and there you are jumping down everyones throats, it's getting boring.

[MFH]

Can the start menu search within apps?

Can the start screen search within applications? No it can't.

[Dot Matrix]

Bored of this rhetoric, do you have stocks in Microsoft or something?

Every thread that has even the smallest dig at Windows 8 and there you are jumping down everyones throats, it's getting boring.

What rhetoric?

Can the start screen search within applications? No it can't.

Yeah, it can.

[MFH]

Yeah, it can.

That's an app, I'm talking about real applications...

Furthermore it only works 'cause MS offers a new API that allows hooking - something that would easily have been integrated into the start menu...

[Nick H. Supervisor]

What rhetoric?

You do seem to want everyone to "see the light" that is Windows 8 and the metro apps. You like metro, that's fine. But I don't, and yet you consider the compromise of having the start menu and the start screen to be backwards thinking, rather than just agreeing that it would be a solution to this silly debate.

Look at the people here who have said, "I don't like that I can't do <X>." How many times have you replied to them saying, "Oh but you can! You just need to change the way you do it!"? While for you that change may be like learning multiplication after addition (i.e. a natural progression), for others it's more like learning to drink a glass of water while standing on their head; sure, they could do it, but what's the point when it worked for them the original way (in this analogy, by drinking the water standing normally)?

I'm not saying that you telling them how to do things the new way is bad. I'm just saying that you can spot the people who are against metro easily enough to know that any help that you offer in an attempt to convert them will not change their mind, so what's the point?

[Pikey]

It's a NO from me , I hardly ever used it anyway!

[+Warwagon MVC]

I just got back from a service call for someone who just got windows 8. The issue was they were in a Modern app and it crashed and all they had was a "blue screen". Because it's a modern all the menu bars were hidden. So I went over and showed them all the ins and outs of windows 8. She was having a REALLY hard time activating the charms bar and keeping it up long enough to click so I showed her the windows key + C command.

Later I was working on their XP laptop and I heard her on the phone talking to her daughter about this new Windows 8 HP laptop. She told her daughter "Windows 8 hides everything from you and you have to press buttons to find it" ...She's actually correct. Windows 8 does hide everything from you. In fact this was my first beef with windows 8 before it was even released. I still feel the same way I did back then.

Never hide the most important menu's from the user, its bad UI design on a desktop.

All the pro Windows 8 users response to that is "Just use the shortcut keys". This user really didn't like that.

[subcld]

No

[Mr. Gibs]

That's an app, I'm talking about real applications...

Furthermore it only works 'cause MS offers a new API that allows hooking - something that would easily have been integrated into the start menu...

And it would have looked like a ridiculous mess since everytime you did a search you'd get a massive long list of everything without any way of sorting it. Not to mention most application developers would completely ignore it if was in the start menu.

People who use OS X like to talk about how they can preview documents in finder without having to open the app and how Windows should have that. Thing is, Windows has had that feature since XP and it has had the API for other programs to use it since XP too. How many programs have used it? Pretty much none aside from MS Office.

Chrome is a real application isn't it? But it does have a metro option too, I use the desktop version only and I can still use the search like I described. Not that hard for developers to link metro and it's APIs into their desktop apps.

She was having a REALLY hard time activating the charms bar and keeping it up long enough to click so I showed her the windows key + C command.

She was having a really hard time with moving her mouse downwards? You slide your mouse to the corner and then slide it down.

I agree that MS needs to make some of the stuff in Windows 8 more clear but they show you how to use the charms bar on your first boot...

Later I was working on their XP laptop and I heard her on the phone talking to her daughter about this new Windows 8 HP laptop. She told her daughter "Windows 8 hides everything from you and you have to press buttons to find it" ...She's actually correct. Windows 8 does hide everything from you. In fact this was my first beef with windows 8 before it was even released. I still feel the same way I did back then.

Windows 8 while using METRO apps will hide menus from you. Every other menu on every other win32 application, and even the Windows 8 desktop runs exactly like it did before.

Do these very same people complain when they buy a new car (or product) that things are different? Or do they take the time to learn it and use it. Why should computers be any different?

Did these people complain when command line was replaced with GUIs?

[+Warwagon MVC]

She was having a really hard time with moving her mouse downwards? You slide your mouse to the corner and then slide it down.

You've never seen an old person use a mouse before have you?

[Mr. Gibs]

You've never seen an old person use a mouse before have you?

So like I said we should be judging how technology advances by how old people use it? Maybe we should drop the speed limits all around the world to like 20 because you've never seen an old person drive have you?

I'm sure old people were massively confused by computers when they cam out too. Maybe we should have just thrown them out the window and stuck with typewriters.

You don't need to use the charms bar to use windows 8, it just quick access to a few things but it's not the only (and sometimes not even the fastest) way to access them. If you need to search, bring up the start menu and start typing.