Texas teen sues parents to stop them from forcing her abortion [Updated]

[HSoft]

There's not a single thing in his post that is even slightly incorrect, but bear in mind that he's from Norway; a vastly different society to yours.

"over here, education is free" implying that it is not in the USA which is incorrect.

"But even without a government who don't care about individuals or people who are not the 1%" - I highly doubt he is talking about Norway there either (although the triple negative doesn't help)

[ncoday]

Judging by her taking this decision to stop her parents, I'd say she HAS decided to shoulder the responsibility. She's not begging for anyone to make decisions for her, or look after the kid. She's trying to stop her parents from forcing her to do something she doesn't want to do.

She is just an arrogant child who thinks it will be "cool" and nice to have a child. I guarantee she has no clue the amount of responsibility it will take to raise the child.

[FloatingFatMan]

She is just an arrogant child who thinks it will be "cool" and nice to have a child. I guarantee she has no clue the amount of responsibility it will take to raise the child.

You guarantee that do you? Based on a short article, with no knowledge of the girls personality or life or anything at all? But still, you guarantee it?

Man, I can smell the BS from here, and I'm 1000's of miles away from you. :p

[FloatingFatMan]

"over here, education is free" implying that it is not in the USA which is incorrect.

Any "implication" is purely your own. He made a simple statement about Norway.

"But even without a government who don't care about individuals or people who are not the 1%" - I highly doubt he is talking about Norway there either (although the triple negative doesn't help)

Your government DOESN'T care about individuals, neither does your society as a whole, so he's quite right there.

[HSoft]

Any "implication" is purely your own. He made a simple statement about Norway.

Then his initial statement of "basically everything you say is plain and pure BS." is incorrect. One person was talking about America, the other Norway and as you point out they are vastly different cultures and societies thereby negating the comparison. You can't have it both ways :rofl:

Your government DOESN'T care about individuals, neither does your society as a whole, so he's quite right there.

So the government doesn't help anybody? The fact that we have more receiving government benefits than the population of Spain according to you doesn't count?

To quote you :-

Man, I can smell the BS from here, and I'm 1000's of miles away from you

[Mr. Gibs]

You are messed up. Seriously.

You care more about the financial burden than your kids.

Than the kids? Have you even thought about what having a kid at 16 is going to do for the girl?

How exactly is she going to take care of her kids when she can't even take her of herself? In other countries where the government pays for your education, healtcare etc it's one thing. But in the US the government doesn't (well apart from public schools).

Want to have a guess at how much giving birth costs in the US? $20-30k without any complications. $80k+ with complications. Then you have the healthcare costs for the kids as they grow up, and that isn't cheap.

I'm not saying she should be slipped an abortion pill, but her parents need to sit down with her and explain EVERYTHING about raising a kid. Then the decision should be left up-to her.

You guarantee that do you? Based on a short article, with no knowledge of the girls personality or life or anything at all? But still, you guarantee it?

Man, I can smell the BS from here, and I'm 1000's of miles away from you.

Come to America and you'll see what he and others mean.

We have shows here like Teen Mom, 16 and pregnant etc. Sure says a lot when we make "cool" TV shows about girls who've made stupid decisions, ruined their lives and will eventually ruin their kids lives too. And then you get dance moms, honey booboo and **** like that.

[FloatingFatMan]

So the government doesn't help anybody? The fact that we have more receiving government benefits than the population of Spain according to you doesn't count?

To quote you :-

Man, I can smell the BS from here, and I'm 1000's of miles away from you

Your lack of national, free at point of use, healthcare is proof positive that your government doesn't care. The public reaction at any attempt to implement one, is proof that your society doesn't care.

[Shadrack]

Than the kids? Have you even thought about what having a kid at 16 is going to do for the girl?

How exactly is she going to take care of her kids when she can't even take her of herself? In other countries where the government pays for your education, healtcare etc it's one thing. But in the US the government doesn't (well apart from public schools).

Her kids will at least have free healthcare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

Living in poverty in America is still pretty decent compared to other places. There is help for those who need it. By "can't even take care of herself" what basis do you form that conclusion? Her age? Do you think that she and her child will die of starvation or what exactly do you think?

"Life will be very hard" =/= "Life will be impossible so she might as well just lay down and die"

[Mr. Gibs]

Living in poverty in America is still pretty decent compared to other places. There is help for those who need it. By "can't even take care of herself" what basis do you form that conclusion? Her age? Do you think that she and her child will die of starvation or what exactly do you think?

So essentially she and her kids become dependent on other's to live?

How exactly can you spin that as a good thing? Are you going to sit there and tell me it's a good thing to have kids when you aren't ready to take care of them?

Like I said I'm not saying she should be forced into abortion but her parents need to sit down and explain to her how hard life is going to be. And (at least from this article) they don't seem to be doing that, they just give her verbal abuse and try to force things onto her. That isn't going to work.

[Shadrack]

So essentially she and her kids become dependent on other's to live?

How exactly can you spin that as a good thing? Are you going to sit there and tell me it's a good thing to have kids when you aren't ready to take care of them?

Like I said I'm not saying she should be forced into abortion but her parents need to sit down and explain to her how hard life is going to be. And (at least from this article) they don't seem to be doing that, they just give her verbal abuse and try to force things onto her. That isn't going to work.

I'm not saying life won't be incredibly hard and that living off other people's taxes is the best solution. You said that healthcare wouldn't be available which is false and that she can't take care of herself which you have no way of knowing that for sure (unless you know specifics that the rest of don't know, maybe you got her pregnant idk...).

What I'm saying is you and others in this thread are using language that implies that the whole thing adds up to an impossible life for her and her child which is utter hyperbole nonsense because there are plenty of examples of teenage mothers who don't have help from their family and do just fine. Definitely not the norm, and they definitely will be in a high risk group.

[timster]

She probably has watched one to many of episodes of Teem Mom on MTV.

And sadly, I am not kidding.

she probably thought she could be on the show

[Mr. Gibs]

I'm not saying life won't be incredibly hard and that living off other people's taxes is the best solution. What I'm saying is you and others in this thread are using language that implies that the whole thing adds up to an impossible life for her and her child which is utter hyperbole nonsense.

Well nothing is impossible but the odds are vastly against her. And why purposely put yourself in a very hard situation that has very little gain?

Finish school, go to college, get a job and then have a kid. You'll most likely have a better life be happier and the kid will too. It's not like she could never be pregnant again and this is her one and only chance in life to have a kid.

[Shadrack]

Well nothing is impossible but the odds are vastly against her. And why purposely put yourself in a very hard situation that has very little gain?

Finish school, go to college, get a job and then have a kid. You'll most likely have a better life be happier and the kid will too. It's not like she could never be pregnant again and this is her one and only chance in life to have a kid.

That, I agree with.

[HSoft]

Your lack of national, free at point of use, healthcare is proof positive that your government doesn't care. The public reaction at any attempt to implement one, is proof that your society doesn't care.

lmao - So according to you, a country doesn't care about its citizens unless it has socialized healthcare. That's an extremely narrow minded approach to saying a government doesn't care about its people.

But according to you we can get rid of things like food stamps, housing benefits, social security etc. etc. as they are not necessary, all we need is healthcare because without that a government doesn't care. umm....right..... :woot:

And of course, lets all forget about medicare for the elderly and medicaid for low income households etc.

You do make me chuckle.

[FloatingFatMan]

^ And lets not forget the 1000's of people who die needlessly because they have a long term illness such as cancer and can't afford the medications. Right.

[HawkMan]

"over here, education is free" implying that it is not in the USA which is incorrect.

"But even without a government who don't care about individuals or people who are not the 1%" - I highly doubt he is talking about Norway there either (although the triple negative doesn't help)

Up to 18, you can get crap education for free.

Over here, everyone gets free schools the same, for those who chose private schools for their kids, any certified privat school also gets part funding from the government and while you need to pay(in most cases) it's actually a small manageable account.

More importantly however, even not at 33 I could get free university education over here. At one of the worlds best tech schools. Or at any of the many other high quality universities and "high schools" over here(bear in mind what's called high school here is actually a limited university that focuses on subjects, and gives you bachelor and master degrees, though you need a university to get more).

And yes taxes pay for it. Of course at 16-18 when most people go to uni, they haven't paid much taxes. On top of that anyone is qualified for a student loan, part of which can be refunded as scholarships when/as you pass classes.

So the difference is that over here ANYONE can get higher education, without being priviliedged.

[LaP]

And why purposely put yourself in a very hard situation that has very little gain?

Because she's a teen and teens do stupid things.

It's still not a good reason for her parent to not take their own responsability until she's at leats 18 (and even further imo).

I know 2 relatives who had a kid at 18 and 17. They were not old and mature enough to take care of the kid. Their parents took care of the kid for the first 5 years until they were old enough to do it by themselves. Did the parents were angry ? Yes. Did they take their responsabilities by taking care of their grandchild ? yes. Today the young parents and the kid are fine and are an happy family.

[tealethetoolman]

And then of course the people who get stuck in prison because they don't want to pay for welfare babies!

[HSoft]

FFM: or the calculations that the NHS makes based on a persons age amongst other factors to see whether a person can actually get an operation (whether they are justified/viable).

Goes both ways :woot:

[HawkMan]

Well nothing is impossible but the odds are vastly against her. And why purposely put yourself in a very hard situation that has very little gain?

Finish school, go to college, get a job and then have a kid. You'll most likely have a better life be happier and the kid will too. It's not like she could never be pregnant again and this is her one and only chance in life to have a kid.

Meanwhile some people actually live long happy lives without higher education, and don't even want it. And bring up perfectly good kids. Heck most of them bring up better kids because they actually teach the kids the value of money, and manners.

Having an education and a kid after school a d career is not a requirement for a happy life.

FFM: or the calculations that the NHS makes based on a persons age amongst other factors to see whether a person can actually get an operation (whether they are justified/viable).

Goes both ways :woot:

It's called risk assessment, that same person would get the same assessment at an American hospital, and they would tell him "I'm sorry, but you're to old for this, the risks outweighs the chances of recovery and benefits of a successful operation"

[vcfan]

An underage teenager shouldn't have any say in the matter whether she can or cannot have an abortion.

If she wins, her parents should throw her out for her to fend for herself because clearly she thinks she's ready to be an adult.

agree %100

[briangw]

Your lack of national, free at point of use, healthcare is proof positive that your government doesn't care. The public reaction at any attempt to implement one, is proof that your society doesn't care.

The same type of healthcare I'm hearing about in other countries that suck so bad, people choose to buy privatized insurance. OoooooK . :rolleyes:

[Mr. Gibs]

Meanwhile some people actually live long happy lives without higher education, and don't even want it.

I want to see her try to graduate high school while being pregnant. Very few people manage to do that.

FFM: or the calculations that the NHS makes based on a persons age amongst other factors to see whether a person can actually get an operation (whether they are justified/viable).

Goes both ways

Insurance companies in the US do the same thing. You can be denied coverage over a surgery if the insurance company deems it unnecessary. If your coverage requires referrals you can't go see a specialist unless your PCP refers you to or your insurance company won't pay for it.

And insurance companies base that of statistics too. Your rate is often based of statistics, and not how much you use up. I've had the same insurance since I was 18 (I'm 23 now) and I haven't had the need to use it even once but when I turn 25 I have to pay $80 more a month for it.

The same type of healthcare I'm hearing about in other countries that suck so bad, people choose to buy privatized insurance. OoooooK

America ranks 36th in the world in healthcare. Pretty much every single country above it has universal healthcare.

[HSoft]

It's called risk assessment, that same person would get the same assessment at an American hospital, and they would tell him "I'm sorry, but you're to old for this, the risks outweighs the chances of recovery and benefits of a successful operation"

Yes and that I would agree with to an extent (if the person still wants to go ahead with the operation, knowing full well the risks, then that should be their choice). But that doesn't even happen. My father (still in the UK) got refused an operation based on his age. The operation was not risky but it was deemed not viable/cost efficient due to his age.

Heck I got refused an operation on the NHS when I lived there, that I got no problem here in the USA (2 operations if you include dental procedures as well).

So in short, according to FFM's criteria then the UK govt doesn't care about it citizens either.

[HawkMan]

I want to see her try to graduate high school while being pregnant. Very few people manage to do that.

A friend of mine and his GF got pregnant while we where in school, she finished university as an architect or structural engineer or something while pregnant and the first year of the kid.

My uncles daughter got a kid and since bought a house with her boyfriend, worked and had a happy life and is now finishing education as a health worker/nurse hoping to work in the birthing part of the hospital.

Very few doesn't mean everyone, and from this, she sounds like a determine and capable young lady. More capable than most parents twice her age. But of course none of us now here, so we can't judge her, only she can device what's right for her, not me, not you, not her parents who try to illegally force here to potentially ruin her body.

Yes and that I would agree with to an extent (if the person still wants to go ahead with the operation, knowing full well the risks, then that should be their choice). But that doesn't even happen. My father (still in the UK) got refused an operation based on his age. The operation was not risky but it was deemed not viable/cost efficient due to his age.

Heck I got refused an operation on the NHS when I lived there, that I got no problem here in the USA (2 operations if you include dental procedures as well).

So in short, according to FFM's criteria then the UK govt doesn't care about it citizens either.

It's not the patients choice. The doctor will tel, the patient, that HE'S not comfortable with the risk and will not do it.

If its just a risk issue where the patient gets to take the risk, he gets to decide if he wants to take the risk over here to, in fact more are capable of doing that over here cause they can actually afford to do it.

I'd wager there a much larger percentage of Norwegian 70+ people with bad hips and knees who's had hip or knee replacement surgery than there are Americans.