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The new Microsoft Windows 8 systems that come preinstalled on a new computer have a special feature - a feature no other PC has ever had. By default they are locked down so you cannot dual boot Windows 8 with another operating system such as Linux or even older versions of Windows such as Windows XP and Windows 7.

Dual booting is a popular thing to do for many PC users because it allows them the ability to use the right applications they need to get the job done if those applications are not found on Windows 8 alone. Dual booting is also used in companies that require workers use multiple operating system platforms or home users and students to try out and learn about other operating systems. Many of these operating systems are faster than Windows and have other features Windows does not have, as well as there are things Windows does better than these operating systems like AAA Gaming.

The reason Windows 8 will not dual boot is because Microsoft has insisted that their PC manufacturer partners like HP and Dell ship with a new type of bios called UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) and it's feature called Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot acts as a protection feature that is supposed to ensure your system doesn't have any malware at the time of shipping. It works by checking keys in the operating system against hard coded keys in the UEFI. As these keys are signed by Microsoft, the system will not allow any other operating system to boot assuring you have a clean copy of Windows 8. This has never been done before in the PC market and for good reason - PC Manufacturers don't have problems with systems getting malware before they ship.

PC's that ship with Windows are cheaper because Microsoft buys a portion of the hardware in exchange for HP offering Windows in the computer. The rep told me all the PC manufacturers and Microsoft have this same agreement. I wanted to know why there was no mention of UEFI in the HP documentation or why the tech support could not help me. The HP rep told me many times during our phone conversation that because they are paid by Microsoft, they adhere to Microsoft's wishes and not make it easy on people to learn about disabling Secure Boot so you can dual boot - something that is required by the manufacturers from Microsoft's own documentation called Windows 8 Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems.

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I also like trudging up articles about things we knew a year ago for fresh FUD!

Did you know that every time you connect to the internet you're assigned an identifier called an 'IP address' than can associate your online activity with your internet account? More at 11!

The HP rep told me many times during our phone conversation that because they are paid by Microsoft, they adhere to Microsoft's wishes and not make it easy on people to learn about disabling Secure Boot so you can dual boot.

Yeah I do not know about this. - I am always skeptical when I see quotes like this. It is too easy to change / alter or just straight fabricate this information in an attempt to make a story spin in a specific direction.

Even IF this was quoted, I am sure this person is not authorized or have the capacity to discuss the terms and agreements.

Microsoft buys a portion of the hardware? Microsoft pays HP to use windows? :woot:

im sorry but your info is incorrect. HP pays Microsoft for a license to use their software(Windows). Microsofts license requires certain features (SecureBoot) to be enabled if that device wants to have Windows 8 certification . Windows 8 certification means that the hardware and software meet certain standard. Anyone can sell non certified PCs,but most retailers and stores will not allow or sell non certified windows PCs.

Interesting:

  • UEFI allows firmware to implement a security policy
  • Secure boot is a UEFI protocol not a Windows 8 feature
  • UEFI secure boot is part of Windows 8 secured boot architecture
  • Windows 8 utilizes secure boot to ensure that the pre-OS environment is secure
  • Secure boot doesn?t ?lock out? operating system loaders, but is a policy that allows firmware to validate authenticity of components
  • OEMs have the ability to customize their firmware to meet the needs of their customers by customizing the level of certificate and policy management on their platform
  • Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/17058-secure-boot-enable-disable-uefi.html

Interesting:

  • UEFI allows firmware to implement a security policy
  • Secure boot is a UEFI protocol not a Windows 8 feature
  • UEFI secure boot is part of Windows 8 secured boot architecture
  • Windows 8 utilizes secure boot to ensure that the pre-OS environment is secure
  • Secure boot doesn?t ?lock out? operating system loaders, but is a policy that allows firmware to validate authenticity of components
  • OEMs have the ability to customize their firmware to meet the needs of their customers by customizing the level of certificate and policy management on their platform
  • Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows

http://www.eightforu...sable-uefi.html

Wait I am confused, are you correcting yourself?

I'm thinking it's more in the realm of preventing bootloader activation cracks and rootkits that inject themselves into the bootloader. I'm pretty sure part of the spec is that manufacturers must place an option in the BIOS to disable secure boot.

So explain how people are booting Ubuntu on surface pros

Microsoft signed a shim bootloader for Linux.This is basically a generic prebootloader that allows to run a secondary bootloader which can be specific to each Linux distribution. The shim bootloaders is generic because Microsoft cant keep signing every new version of bootloaders for Linux guys. Therefore since this is a trusted binary, its able to run and then boot Linux with secureboot enabled.

If it weren't for the fact that 90% of PC users are uneducated and unwilling to learn about what they bought/use (but also cannot live without it these days) we wouldn't need "Secure Boot".

I got fed up of helping people with viruses and trojans taking up hours of my time (mostly for free) that I just prefer they go to someone else or even pay for a professional to help them now.

I got fed up of helping people with viruses and trojans taking up hours of my time (mostly for free) that I just prefer they go to someone else or even pay for a professional to help them now.

Only people I help for free now is family, and if I am doing work for a charity. I told my one sis if she ever installed Limewire again (she kept installing it after I kept telling her not to) that I will not longer help her and she will have to pay to get the system fixed next time.

companies can put all the protection they want on a system...if hte user is uneducated and do not know what they are doing, no amount of protection will help. I would figure with computers being so common and wide spread that more people would be smarter.

  • Like 2

Only people I help for free now is family, and if I am doing work for a charity. I told my one sis if she ever installed Limewire again (she kept installing it after I kept telling her not to) that I will not longer help her and she will have to pay to get the system fixed next time.

companies can put all the protection they want on a system...if hte user is uneducated and do not know what they are doing, no amount of protection will help. I would figure with computers being so common and wide spread that more people would be smarter.

Screw that...I stopped helping out my family because it was pointless. The only ones I still help are my parents...you cannot say no to Mom and Dad :)

Simple, create a limited profile, define in GPO what applications she can use after you downloaded and configured the software she needs. and there yah go. I do that for my family to keep the lappie nice and clean and keep me sane!

There is no conspiracy, how hard is it to go to the bios to turn this off? Anyone who is going to be dual booting and such are already going to know about this or things like this to get around it. So why make a big deal over this?

  • Like 2

Thought Microsoft Security Essentials when released would cut down on Family infecting there PC's with junk, but I find that i'm still helping family remove Trojans and junk off there PC's pretty regularly, gotten to the point only help Mom these days, rest I recommend to local small PC shop, as too much time cleaning there PCs

Most of Family though removed MSE when they saw it failed certification tests...So I guess up to them now what they use.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Posts

    • Why you need to take back control of your synced passwords and how to go about doing that by Paul Hill Credit: Pixabay Last month, when Google decided to introduce daily and weekly caps for Gemini, it reignited an anxiety of mine, that you can’t really depend on service providers to maintain features forever, and it got me looking into free software (as in freedom) in other areas too. One app I quickly came across was KeePassXC on desktop and KeePassDX on Android as an alternative to password manager lock-in within the Chrome or Firefox ecosystems. I personally like to switch around with browsers, and using either password manager is inconvenient, so something like KeePassXC was interesting to me. The main issue with it now is syncing; I was not sure how to do that. After a bit of research, I came across Syncthing, a tool I was vaguely familiar with but had never used because it seemed complicated. However, I was completely wrong, and honestly, I think everyone should use it if they use multiple devices. It essentially lets you share folders peer to peer across all of your devices, no cloud services that you don’t control necessary! And it was fairly simple to set up, if not a bit clunky. Since setting it up, I’ve also started using Syncthing to back up other apps too, so don’t think it’s limited to just saving password databases. You can use it for pretty much anything you use Dropbox or Google Drive for. Before continuing to talk about those apps a bit more, let’s walk back a bit and talk about browser sync. Ever since the late 2000s and early 2010s, really, since we have been using smartphones, browser sync has been a necessity of life. I don’t know about you, but I have hundreds of passwords saved. For the most part, they’re all unique, so I don’t remember them and rely on software to manage them for me. Until recently, I’ve relied on password managers in Chrome and Firefox, but what I always found annoying was that it can be hard to transfer them between browsers. Sure, on Windows it is simple enough, but on Linux, exporting bookmarks has been temperamental. It works OK nowadays, but not too long ago, Chrome required you to enable exporting passwords in chrome://flags. The situation is even worse on mobile; there is no exporting or importing of passwords of any kind. You literally have to do it on a desktop, which is incredibly annoying in our mobile-first world. Sync also lets us take out bookmarks, history, tabs, and autofill data easily. To enable sync, it’s just a matter of signing into the browser once, and it handles the rest. It’s nice and easy. Obviously, all this has some issues, including those I’ve outlined above about it being hard to transfer data between browsers, but also things such as account suspension, lost account passwords, and other lock-in mechanisms, such as passkeys, being tied to a specific browser. On a sidenote, I have just removed all of my passkeys because they can make it harder to move browsers. I think the biggest threat to your synced passwords, especially if doing this with Google, is having your account suspended. I don’t ever expect mine to be suspended, but you do hear horror stories on Reddit where people lose access to their Google accounts. Imagine if you have hundreds of passwords, then suddenly lose access to them because Google froze your account, what would you do? So yes, it can be nice to use these syncing services for their convenience, but they also have risks. You may have seen me going on about free software quite a bit in my editorials. It’s essentially a concept championed by the Free Software Foundation. It’s software under particular licenses that grant you four freedoms: run the program for any purpose (0), study and change the source code (1), redistribute copies to others (2), and the freedom to distribute modified copies to others (3). For example, if there is an app I use and one day it gets abandoned by the developer, I can keep running it or even clone the software and continue developing it. Look at the myriad of cool services Google has run over the years before killing them. You can’t take the source code for those because they are proprietary, for the most part. Both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so I get the freedoms listed above. In my use case where I’m syncing a database full of my passwords, I also get proper ownership over my data, there is no losing access to the database due to a frozen account, I can access the code of the tools I’m using, and I can get support from real people online if I run into issues, rather than having to consult a vague help page from an opaque company. With the KeePassXC password manager, you create a .kdbx file, which is what will be synced between devices. KeePassXC has cross-platform apps and also has browser extensions so that the browser can fetch passwords from the database once it is unlocked. Meanwhile, Syncthing is a peer-to-peer file sync tool where you can select folders to sync between your devices. Just pop files in the folders you choose, and then they will be available across your other devices whenever they come online. Syncthing is resilient as it works over both LAN and the internet and only ever sends content between your devices, never to a third-party server somewhere else. By combining these two pieces of software, you can essentially replicate the browser sync functionality. I have had a weird, conflicting issue where a new file is appearing, but it doesn’t seem to be impacting my main password database, which is updating between devices just fine. If you want to get a setup similar to what I have, you will need to go here to download KeePassXC for your computer. Once you have that, you will need to download your passwords from your web browser to a CSV file. In Chrome, you can type chrome://password-manager/settings into the URL bar, and you should see an option to download your passwords under Export Passwords. This will give you the CSV file you need for importing into KeePassXC. If you use a different browser, just use a search engine and type “browser-name export passwords” and muddle along. In KeePassXC, you’ll want to press Import File from the home screen, select the CSV file, and create a new database from it. On one of the screens of the wizard, there will be a Title field with a drop-down selected to none. Change this to Title and continue. You’ll select a name for the database, the encryption level (the defaults are fine), and then you will pick a password. I would choose four unrelated words that are easy for you to remember, as you’ll be typing them fairly often to access your passwords. When you have all your passwords in your new database, you will want to set up the browser extension so that your browser can fetch passwords from KeePassXC. Rather than explain how to do that here, refer to KeePassXC’s guide on how to set it up properly. Once you’ve got that set up, you want to install KeePassDX on Android. You can grab it on the F-Droid store and the Google Play Store. For iPhone users, there are other .kdbx-supporting apps, but I haven’t tried any of them, so have a look around and use what suits you. Once you have that done, you will want to install Syncthing on your computer and find a third-party app for your mobile device. On Android, I use an app called BasicSync; there are also options for iOS, but again, I’ve not tried these. Once you’ve got SyncThing, you’ll want to set it up and connect all of your devices together and share a folder between your gadgets. PCWorld has a good tutorial on setting up a synchronized file between your devices using SyncThing. Once you’ve set it up, congrats, you’ll never have to touch that stuff again except for adding or removing devices. I’ll be honest, I didn’t particularly like setting up Syncthing. It didn’t take me a massive amount of time, but I think I had to check online because I found it a bit confusing. That said, I’ve had it running for several weeks now and never need to touch the Syncthing settings, so that’s very nice. I also mentioned a conflicting file. I’m not sure why this is appearing, but the main .kdbx file seems to be updating and syncing just fine. What’s nice is that both KeePassXC and Syncthing are free software, so they won’t just vanish one day; you can take the code and fork the project or use a range of alternative implementations that others have made. It’s also nice that it works over LAN, so even if your ISP is having problems, your passwords will still sync. One area where you will want to be a bit more careful with this setup is if you only have one device. I am OK because I have a computer and two phones, all synced up. If you just have one device, you will probably want to store a backup of your .kdbx file somewhere else. Obviously, you’ll also want to remember your password really well, too. If you get locked out, it's game over. Overall, if you want to take back control of your computing from big tech, taking control of your passwords is an important part of this. You don’t need to immediately clear out your browser’s password manager; try running KeePassXC and the password manager concurrently for a while to see if you run into any problems. If you do try this out, let us know some other creative ways to use Syncthing. I haven’t really come up with a solution about what to do with my bookmarks, for example.
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