Microsoft, PC Manufacturers conspiracy ?

[Hum]

The new Microsoft Windows 8 systems that come preinstalled on a new computer have a special feature - a feature no other PC has ever had. By default they are locked down so you cannot dual boot Windows 8 with another operating system such as Linux or even older versions of Windows such as Windows XP and Windows 7.

Dual booting is a popular thing to do for many PC users because it allows them the ability to use the right applications they need to get the job done if those applications are not found on Windows 8 alone. Dual booting is also used in companies that require workers use multiple operating system platforms or home users and students to try out and learn about other operating systems. Many of these operating systems are faster than Windows and have other features Windows does not have, as well as there are things Windows does better than these operating systems like AAA Gaming.

The reason Windows 8 will not dual boot is because Microsoft has insisted that their PC manufacturer partners like HP and Dell ship with a new type of bios called UEFI (Unified Extensible Firmware Interface) and it's feature called Secure Boot enabled. Secure Boot acts as a protection feature that is supposed to ensure your system doesn't have any malware at the time of shipping. It works by checking keys in the operating system against hard coded keys in the UEFI. As these keys are signed by Microsoft, the system will not allow any other operating system to boot assuring you have a clean copy of Windows 8. This has never been done before in the PC market and for good reason - PC Manufacturers don't have problems with systems getting malware before they ship.

PC's that ship with Windows are cheaper because Microsoft buys a portion of the hardware in exchange for HP offering Windows in the computer. The rep told me all the PC manufacturers and Microsoft have this same agreement. I wanted to know why there was no mention of UEFI in the HP documentation or why the tech support could not help me. The HP rep told me many times during our phone conversation that because they are paid by Microsoft, they adhere to Microsoft's wishes and not make it easy on people to learn about disabling Secure Boot so you can dual boot - something that is required by the manufacturers from Microsoft's own documentation called Windows 8 Hardware Certification Requirements for Client and Server Systems.

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[BajiRav]

Not this crap again...

[Joshie]

I also like trudging up articles about things we knew a year ago for fresh FUD!

Did you know that every time you connect to the internet you're assigned an identifier called an 'IP address' than can associate your online activity with your internet account? More at 11!

[threetonesun]

1) old

2) false

[George P Global Moderator]

Slow news day even in the forums I guess.

[Dot Matrix]

*bang head here*

[argonite]

Secure Boot is... exactly what it says, secure. Not crippled. Not a conspiracy. And even if it is, you can also shut it off.

[tim_s]

The HP rep told me many times during our phone conversation that because they are paid by Microsoft, they adhere to Microsoft's wishes and not make it easy on people to learn about disabling Secure Boot so you can dual boot.

Yeah I do not know about this. - I am always skeptical when I see quotes like this. It is too easy to change / alter or just straight fabricate this information in an attempt to make a story spin in a specific direction.

Even IF this was quoted, I am sure this person is not authorized or have the capacity to discuss the terms and agreements.

[vcfan]

Microsoft buys a portion of the hardware? Microsoft pays HP to use windows? :woot:

im sorry but your info is incorrect. HP pays Microsoft for a license to use their software(Windows). Microsofts license requires certain features (SecureBoot) to be enabled if that device wants to have Windows 8 certification . Windows 8 certification means that the hardware and software meet certain standard. Anyone can sell non certified PCs,but most retailers and stores will not allow or sell non certified windows PCs.

[Hum]

Interesting:

• UEFI allows firmware to implement a security policy
  
• Secure boot is a UEFI protocol not a Windows 8 feature
  
• UEFI secure boot is part of Windows 8 secured boot architecture
  
• Windows 8 utilizes secure boot to ensure that the pre-OS environment is secure
  
• Secure boot doesn?t ?lock out? operating system loaders, but is a policy that allows firmware to validate authenticity of components
  
• OEMs have the ability to customize their firmware to meet the needs of their customers by customizing the level of certificate and policy management on their platform
  
• Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows
  

http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials/17058-secure-boot-enable-disable-uefi.html

[tim_s]

Interesting:

• UEFI allows firmware to implement a security policy
  
• Secure boot is a UEFI protocol not a Windows 8 feature
  
• UEFI secure boot is part of Windows 8 secured boot architecture
  
• Windows 8 utilizes secure boot to ensure that the pre-OS environment is secure
  
• Secure boot doesn?t ?lock out? operating system loaders, but is a policy that allows firmware to validate authenticity of components
  
• OEMs have the ability to customize their firmware to meet the needs of their customers by customizing the level of certificate and policy management on their platform
  
• Microsoft does not mandate or control the settings on PC firmware that control or enable secured boot from any operating system other than Windows
  

http://www.eightforu...sable-uefi.html

Wait I am confused, are you correcting yourself?

[Noir Angel]

I'm thinking it's more in the realm of preventing bootloader activation cracks and rootkits that inject themselves into the bootloader. I'm pretty sure part of the spec is that manufacturers must place an option in the BIOS to disable secure boot.

[Hum]

Wait I am confused, are you correcting yourself?

I did not write the opinion/rant. :laugh: The source should tell you that.

Topic started on 18-2-2013 @ 09:48 AM by JohnPhoenix

[majortom1981]

So explain how people are booting Ubuntu on surface pros

[vcfan]

So explain how people are booting Ubuntu on surface pros

Microsoft signed a shim bootloader for Linux.This is basically a generic prebootloader that allows to run a secondary bootloader which can be specific to each Linux distribution. The shim bootloaders is generic because Microsoft cant keep signing every new version of bootloaders for Linux guys. Therefore since this is a trusted binary, its able to run and then boot Linux with secureboot enabled.

[Steven P. Administrators]

If it weren't for the fact that 90% of PC users are uneducated and unwilling to learn about what they bought/use (but also cannot live without it these days) we wouldn't need "Secure Boot".

I got fed up of helping people with viruses and trojans taking up hours of my time (mostly for free) that I just prefer they go to someone else or even pay for a professional to help them now.

[techbeck]

I got fed up of helping people with viruses and trojans taking up hours of my time (mostly for free) that I just prefer they go to someone else or even pay for a professional to help them now.

Only people I help for free now is family, and if I am doing work for a charity. I told my one sis if she ever installed Limewire again (she kept installing it after I kept telling her not to) that I will not longer help her and she will have to pay to get the system fixed next time.

companies can put all the protection they want on a system...if hte user is uneducated and do not know what they are doing, no amount of protection will help. I would figure with computers being so common and wide spread that more people would be smarter.

[remixedcat]

This **** is older then yo momma.

[#Michael]

Only people I help for free now is family, and if I am doing work for a charity. I told my one sis if she ever installed Limewire again (she kept installing it after I kept telling her not to) that I will not longer help her and she will have to pay to get the system fixed next time.

companies can put all the protection they want on a system...if hte user is uneducated and do not know what they are doing, no amount of protection will help. I would figure with computers being so common and wide spread that more people would be smarter.

Screw that...I stopped helping out my family because it was pointless. The only ones I still help are my parents...you cannot say no to Mom and Dad :)

[remixedcat]

Simple, create a limited profile, define in GPO what applications she can use after you downloaded and configured the software she needs. and there yah go. I do that for my family to keep the lappie nice and clean and keep me sane!

[Gotenks98]

There is no conspiracy, how hard is it to go to the bios to turn this off? Anyone who is going to be dual booting and such are already going to know about this or things like this to get around it. So why make a big deal over this?

[pookie62]

Can we just close this thread now then? Old news is old...

[JJ_]

How did Microsoft not see this coming?

[bikeman25]

Thought Microsoft Security Essentials when released would cut down on Family infecting there PC's with junk, but I find that i'm still helping family remove Trojans and junk off there PC's pretty regularly, gotten to the point only help Mom these days, rest I recommend to local small PC shop, as too much time cleaning there PCs

Most of Family though removed MSE when they saw it failed certification tests...So I guess up to them now what they use.

[Praetor]

old and false article...

You fail me yet again, Hum! /Megatron voice