Don Mattrick: 'If you're backwards compatible, you're really ..

By Motoko.
in Xbox

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Grand Master

Phouchg

Posted
Posted

So the move from PowerPC RISC to the x86 AMD APU is the cause for difficulty with backward compatibility? If so, that could be a formidable/costly barrier. Sony was smart to try and at least offer some sort of workaround.

Pretty much everything needs to be emulated. Starting with byte order for both instructions and data.

Sony is in a bit better position here, as far as cloud gaming goes. They bought Gaikai technology, didn't have to build it all from scratch. I suppose Microsoft could have sacrificed several containers of Azure, for starters, for Full Circle* or something, but it would cost them way more. Probably not worth all the good PR.

* - a tacky name I've just invented for Xbox 360 cloud solution

True But the first Xbox was x86. So now Xbox One should be compatible with the first Xbox's games.

Build the whole Xbox into the controller, like some of the late NES clones :D

Veteran

xWhiplash

Posted
Posted

I'm being serious though. You'd use a usb wireless mouse and keyboard. The Xbox One is basically a gaming computer with a modified APU and custom OS. It has gaming, tv and social things, but it is missing the computing part. It would definitely be the ultimate "one for everything" console. It would be good for college and school kids, because they could quit playing an Xbox game and launch Microsoft office to start working!

Why don't you just hook up your PC to your TV and use that?

Grand Master

DConnell Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

This is slightly disappointing but not a deal-breaker. The backwards-compatibility on the 360 was nice, but when I want to play an XBox game, I normally fire up one of my 2 modded original Xboxes. They're modded for XBMC, but they still do games just fine. It seems to me if you've got a collection of 360 games, you've also got the console to play it on. It would be nice to have the One truly be able to replace the 360 so I don't have more clutter in my entertainment center but if it keeps the cost down I can deal.

Grand Master

Julius Caro

Posted
Posted

You know what? I believe that the whole "less than 5% use their consoles to play previous-generation games" is reasonable enough to not implement the whole backwards compatibility thing. But lord knows how they measured this, because we know how well the same argument went for getting rid of the start button on windows.

Grand Master

threetonesun

Posted
Posted

You know what? I believe that the whole "less than 5% use their consoles to play previous-generation games" is reasonable enough to not implement the whole backwards compatibility thing. But lord knows how they measured this, because we know how well the same argument went for getting rid of the start button on windows.

It's a made up number. You know why they don't do backwards compatibility? Because now they can release the same games for the second (or third) time, and get people to buy them again.

I will admit that it's not the easiest thing to implement, especially when you're switching architectures. Even on the PC there's usually some hacks and emulators required if you go back far enough.

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted

You know what? I believe that the whole "less than 5% use their consoles to play previous-generation games" is reasonable enough to not implement the whole backwards compatibility thing. But lord knows how they measured this, because we know how well the same argument went for getting rid of the start button on windows.

There's simply no way to accurately gauge what percentage of people use their consoles to play previous generation games. When the X360 launched the percentage was probably much higher but obviously as the lifecycle goes on the need for backwards compatibility diminishes. That said, backwards compatibility really isn't much of an issue. Those that already have X360s will be able to continue using them and most TVs have plenty of HDMI connections - it's not worth increasing the price for everyone when only a minority will benefit from it.

Grand Master

dead.cell

Posted
Posted

I never played an Xbox game on my 360. However, I did play some PSOne and PS2 games on my PS3. Hmmm... :/

Probably because the library selection of the PS1 and PS2 were ridiculous. Hell, I still kick on the PS2 just to play some old school games.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

You know why they don't do backwards compatibility? Because now they can release the same games for the second (or third) time, and get people to buy them again.

I will admit that it's not the easiest thing to implement, especially when you're switching architectures. Even on the PC there's usually some hacks and emulators required if you go back far enough.

If you know a better way of emulating a 3 Core PPC architecture on a 8 Core x86_64 processor - you should contact Microsoft. I am not sure why people are singling out Microsoft over this. Even Sony is not doing it. They will be using Gaikai for playing PS3 games - well and that requires an ALWAYS ONLINE internet which apparently many gamers don't have.

Grand Master

threetonesun

Posted
Posted

If you know a better way of emulating a 3 Core PPC architecture on a 8 Core x86_64 processor - you should contact Microsoft. I am not sure why people are singling out Microsoft over this. Even Sony is not doing it. They will be using Gaikai for playing PS3 games - well and that requires an ALWAYS ONLINE internet which apparently many gamers don't have.

As I said, it's not easy when you're switching architectures, as both MS and Sony are doing. It's possible, however, but when there's very little value in doing it, and some possible income by forcing people to rebuy, it's a pretty obvious choice.

On the other hand... there's an obvious possibility that downloaded games could be ported for free. However, it seems very unlikely that MS will do that.

Grand Master

Growled Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

You know what? I believe that the whole "less than 5% use their consoles to play previous-generation games" is reasonable enough to not implement the whole backwards compatibility thing. But lord knows how they measured this, because we know how well the same argument went for getting rid of the start button on windows.

Lots of people would use it if it was implemented.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

On the other hand... there's an obvious possibility that downloaded games could be ported for free. However, it seems very unlikely that MS will do that.

You can't cross-compile for "free" when you are switching to an entirely different architecture. It doesn't matter if the game is downloadable or on a disc.

Grand Master

JustGeorge

Posted
Posted

Microsoft always tries to put a positive spin on why they choose to be lazy. Anyway, of they had stuck with x86 since the original Xbox, none of this would matter. I get the reasoning behind going back to x86, which is to simplify things for developers that cater to multiple platforms, but they should've had the forethought to see this as a problem when they transitioned to PPC in the 360.

One thing that they've not clarified yet is if this lack of BC includes XBL Arcade games. Given what I already know about the One, if XBL games don't carry over, that will be the last straw for me. I'll either skip this generation entirely or get a PS4.

Grand Master

shakey

Posted
Posted

Well, the hammer I have can't screw or unscrew things either... But if it came with that ability to, I'm sure I would use it.

Can't base what people don't do with something as a reason to not do something, just because it didn't have the capability to do it in the first place......

Grand Master

+virtorio MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

Given what I already know about the One, if XBL games don't carry over, that will be the last straw for me. I'll either skip this generation entirely or get a PS4.

Might want to get your PS4 pre-order in early then.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

Well, the hammer I have can't screw or unscrew things either... But if it came with that ability to, I'm sure I would use it.

Can't base what people don't do with something as a reason to not do something, just because it didn't have the capability to do it in the first place......

Agreed, he didn't have to badmouth BC because X1 doesn't have it. There is no reason to say what he said.

Grand Master

threetonesun

Posted
Posted

You can't cross-compile for "free" when you are switching to an entirely different architecture. It doesn't matter if the game is downloadable or on a disc.

Yes, there is some cost there somewhere, but it would certainly be easier than backwards compatibility for disc based games. The majority of Xbox Arcade games are already running on Windows, it would not be an incredible feat to bring them back to the X1.

The point is that they're not going to, and they don't care, which is something that was an ok answer back in the days when games were always on a cartridge or a disc and intrinsically tied to the hardware, but once you've got a digital distribution system up and running, killing backwards compatibility is a real crap policy compared to what Steam offers, what Sony appears to be offering, and even compared to what the Windows Store seems to offer.

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