official Microsoft E3 - Xbox: A new Generation of Games Revealed

[George P Global Moderator]

If the people complaining about DRM were honest then they wouldn't use lots of things sold today. Smartphones? DRM Lock-in. Media services? Not like you can sell the content you get from those digital stores can you? The PC? Unless you want to pirate everything then there's nothing but DRM on it. This whole consumer rights thing is overblown on the X1, can I sell my games to a retailer? Yes. Can I buy a used game from a retailer? Yes. Considering we're talking about digital copies, installed to your hdd with the disc just being a install path, I'd say that's a step up from before. Share with people I know? Yes. Access my games on any X1? Yes.

So there's a internet check, sure I don't agree with that bit fully, I think it needs rethinking. Game rentals are the last bit we don't know about yet, but we do know that they're working on it so it's going to happen as well.

[+Anarkii Subscriber²]

Xbox One is for people who like the Xbox exclusives. Playstation 4 is for people who like the Playstation exclusives.

If you like both games on both consoles, get both.

Dunno why people are arguing. Its personal choice, always has been.

[TheLegendOfMart]

If the people complaining about DRM were honest then they wouldn't use lots of things sold today. Smartphones? DRM Lock-in. Media services? Not like you can sell the content you get from those digital stores can you? The PC? Unless you want to pirate everything then there's nothing but DRM on it. This whole consumer rights thing is overblown on the X1, can I sell my games to a retailer? Yes. Can I buy a used game from a retailer? Yes. Considering we're talking about digital copies, installed to your hdd with the disc just being a install path, I'd say that's a step up from before. Share with people I know? Yes. Access my games on any X1? Yes.

So there's a internet check, sure I don't agree with that bit fully, I think it needs rethinking. Game rentals are the last bit we don't know about yet, but we do know that they're working on it so it's going to happen as well.

PS4 proves you don't need that kind of DRM.

I rip my own Blu-Rays to store on my NAS and keep the originals in a safe place, smartphone apps are a quid/dollar or less.

[George P Global Moderator]

Xbox One is for people who like the Xbox exclusives. Playstation 4 is for people who like the Playstation exclusives.

If you like both games on both consoles, get both.

Dunno why people are arguing. Its personal choice, always has been.

Because it's human nature I guess, fans of one have to argue with fans of another and so on.

[ingramator]

When did people forget that Sony lost millions of millions of passwords and CC details? Seriously when did that happen? When did people loose their stable internet connections in their homes? Why do people want to buy all these new shiny games on console and then lend them out to their freaking friends which will also have the same games?

**** me, the internet.

What you will find my friend is that people have very very short memories- particularly fanboys on the internet. Yes may I remind all reading that Sony's servers were hacked and pretty much out of action for a month. During that period, who knows how many bank account, email and email derived services were hacked.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Yes, yes, its always one side vs the other. Ignoring the fact that I owned an Xbox from launch till 2011. I was prepared to get both but not with the DRM.

What you will find my friend is that people have very very short memories- particularly fanboys on the internet. Yes may I remind all reading that Sony's servers were hacked and pretty much out of action for a month. During that period, who knows how many bank account, email and email derived services were hacked.

They were hacked and made up for it with their pro-consumer stance and now pro-developer stance. Just because someone has messed up doesn't mean you sh*tcan them for eternity, that's just petty.

[ingramator]

Because it's human nature I guess, fans of one have to argue with fans of another and so on.

I provide to you the definition of the internet.

[George P Global Moderator]

PS4 proves you don't need that kind of DRM.

I rip my own Blu-Rays to store on my NAS and keep the originals in a safe place, smartphone apps are a quid/dollar or less.

And the PS4 is still tied to a disc like the PS3 it seems. When you buy them digitally, and they're not tied to a disc anymore then what? Isn't it back to the same old DRM? You're stuck with them, can you sell those digital copies now?

And sure, you rip your movies, that's fine, but do you rip and then get rid of your disc copy? Sure you can but then you can't have that backup on your NAS.

Ok, smartphone apps and games are cheap, that's just a excuse to me. You're justifying the DRM getting put on you because the price is less, even though you don't own those either. All the smartphone platforms can come in and remote wipe an app or game you paid for if they wanted to. Or a app or game gets pulled from the store and then you can never redownload it again even if you paid for it. All you're really doing is accepting the lock-in because it's cheap, it's still DRM to a extreme level.

[the better twin]

If the people complaining about DRM were honest then they wouldn't use lots of things sold today. Smartphones? DRM Lock-in. Media services? Not like you can sell the content you get from those digital stores can you? The PC? Unless you want to pirate everything then there's nothing but DRM on it. This whole consumer rights thing is overblown on the X1, can I sell my games to a retailer? Yes. Can I buy a used game from a retailer? Yes. Considering we're talking about digital copies, installed to your hdd with the disc just being a install path, I'd say that's a step up from before. Share with people I know? Yes. Access my games on any X1? Yes.

So there's a internet check, sure I don't agree with that bit fully, I think it needs rethinking. Game rentals are the last bit we don't know about yet, but we do know that they're working on it so it's going to happen as well.

Ooops I guess you missed the little snippet that Microsoft released quietly:

Some games not transferable and have no resale value; restrictions on games usage apply.

[George P Global Moderator]

Ooops I guess you missed the little snippet that Microsoft released quietly:

Some games not transferable and have no resale value; restrictions on games usage apply.

Which could mean your pure arcade type games, those have always been that way. But even if you want to think it means any game, they also said it's up to the developer, so did Sony. Sony won't stop a developer from requiring their game to have a "online element" that then you need to connect to. From that point the two systems are no different.

[JonnyLH]

They were hacked and made up for it with their pro-consumer stance and now pro-developer stance. Just because someone has messed up doesn't mean you sh*tcan them for eternity, that's just petty.

Pro-consumer stance? Don't revel on what is simply called marketing. They are simply gloating on something which portrays a general negative opinion within consumers and turning into a bitch fest. When have MS ever said one bad thing about Sony?

Right, so a company looses millions of peoples financial information that could of potentially ruin lives of normal people and make them financially unstable. Then you're saying that I can't hold a grudge against them? Yet, when a company holds some policies against games to try and create a solution which builds cloud connectivity and the future of gaming people hold them to ransom?

The always-online requirement is based upon the games you've seen like Forza, Titanfall, Sunset Overdrive.

Logic, internet.

EDIT: You already can see the favoritism of the publishers towards the Xbox. Count the exclusives and look at EA. EA was pretty much noshing MS off this year. Do you see why?

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Credit card details weren't lost, there would be millions of fraud attempts reported if they were.

PS3 account info and passwords were.

But hey say whatever you want to if it makes you feel the Xbox has better consumer rights.

[JonnyLH]

Credit card details weren't lost, there would be millions of fraud attempts reported if they were.

PS3 account info and passwords were.

But hey say whatever you want to if it makes you feel the Xbox has better consumer rights.

I don't know about you, but I heard many fraud reports and Sony never clarified what was actually lost. They just said, "Sorry, free game?".

For a company to store their customer information is clear text is a terrible practice. As a guy who works in IT and infrastructure, its shocking, honestly. I love how you just say customer information and passwords, like it makes it any better.

The fact of the matter is, MS simply showed more breathtaking games. I was took away by Ryse, it made me laugh how people thought it was running on a PC. The Sony conference was full of multi-platforms and Destiny looked like a boring Halo.

The Xbox is a more advanced gaming machine in terms of its hardware and architecture. How its overall OS works is unprecedented, the new Kinect is ridiculously accurate and they have a massive server haul which developers use to support games.

Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is a stunning machine. I really like its design, the OS features look nice but I wished they changed the design a little. I just don't see why Sony have won for literally posting a video of a guy handing a game to another guy? Its childish and you can do the same with the Xbox, but you can have another 9 people there all using the same games... in the cloud.

[The_Decryptor Veteran]

The Destiny presentation was pretty meh, but the game itself looked interesting. I'll definitely be picking up a copy (Hopefully on PC if Bungie haven't forgotten how to make a PC game)

[the better twin]

Pro-consumer stance? Don't revel on what is simply called marketing. They are simply gloating on something which portrays a general negative opinion within consumers and turning into a bitch fest. When have MS ever said one bad thing about Sony?

Awww pooor lil micwosoft I feel so sorry for them. Big mean Sony picking on them. Get a grip.

Right, so a company looses millions of peoples financial information that could of potentially ruin lives of normal people and make them financially unstable. Then you're saying that I can't hold a grudge against them? Yet, when a company holds some policies against games to try and create a solution which builds cloud connectivity and the future of gaming people hold them to ransom?

Because Microsoft have never been hacked. Right?......

The always-online requirement is based upon the games you've seen like Forza, Titanfall, Sunset Overdrive.

No its not. Its DRM pure and simple.

Logic, internet.

EDIT: You already can see the favoritism of the publishers towards the Xbox. Count the exclusives and look at EA. EA was pretty much noshing MS off this year. Do you see why?

Microsoft have thrown money around to get publishers to show their multiplats as Xbox one games. I can guarantee there is no publisher favourtism and all theses EA games will come out on the PS4 just the same.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

I don't know about you, but I heard many fraud reports and Sony never clarified what was actually lost. They just said, "Sorry, free game?".

For a company to store their customer information is clear text is a terrible practice. As a guy who works in IT and infrastructure, its shocking, honestly. I love how you just say customer information and passwords, like it makes it any better.

The fact of the matter is, MS simply showed more breathtaking games. I was took away by Ryse, it made me laugh how people thought it was running on a PC. The Sony conference was full of multi-platforms and Destiny looked like a boring Halo.

The Xbox is a more advanced gaming machine in terms of its hardware and architecture. How its overall OS works is unprecedented, the new Kinect is ridiculously accurate and they have a massive server haul which developers use to support games.

Don't get me wrong, the PS4 is a stunning machine. I really like its design, the OS features look nice but I wished they changed the design a little. I just don't see why Sony have won for literally posting a video of a guy handing a game to another guy? Its childish and you can do the same with the Xbox, but you can have another 9 people there all using the same games... in the cloud.

You should post those fraud reports then, here is my proof

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-13231307

[JonnyLH]

You sir, have literally just defined what I mean.

Its called competitor respect, you saw it alot between MS, Apple and Google back in the day. Fighting in the same market, but the leaders respected their competitors move to help build the industry they was in. Without the Xbox, we wouldn't be at a state we was today. The presentation they made was childish and disrespectful. Could they even run a enterprise service like Azure? No. It'd get hacked.

In a matter of fact, no they have NEVER been hacked. There has never been a technological breach of XBL.

Its DRM? Don't you think the developers and hardware engineers aren't gamers too? I bet there was a massive internal voice about the always on-line and where it was heading.

Forza races with AI from the cloud which learn. If the game was offline, you'd be racing by yourself.

Titanfall offloads physics and AI in the cloud, without a connection, you have a lack of functionality and no AI.

Sunset Overdrive is a open-world online game which changes dynamically from the cloud. Hence it always needs to stay online.

Obviously it has DRM points to it, I'm not denying that. The model of games being linked to accounts is for piracy, and used-games. Its simply business. If a publisher has more control of their revenue with one ecosystem, who are they more inclined to put their game on if they get more revenue and control? FUT for FIFA 14, BF4 being shown on the One for SP and MP.

They will of thrown money at them, don't get me wrong, but there will of been a lot of talk around the policies and how that supports their business. The fact of the matter is, not all the money is purely in game sales now. Its around the online infrastructure around the games and thats where MS excel at. They have the expertise and the resource to pull it off. Enough said.

Every game ran at 60fps in the MS conference. At the PS4's there was no mention of any of that, and you could see clearly the games stuttering on video.

You should post those fraud reports then, here is my proof

http://m.bbc.co.uk/n...nology-13231307

Just because it was 'encrypted' doesn't mean it wasn't easy to get that information out. It literally could be as simple as putting it in the right decryption online.

I love how you're trying to defend the millions of customer records being lost. It makes it better that there was less of a risk that credit cards got taken, but there's still the sensitive information of millions being lost, and your defending that.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

You sir, have literally just defined what I mean.

Its called competitor respect, you saw it alot between MS, Apple and Google back in the day. Fighting in the same market, but the leaders respected their competitors move to help build the industry they was in. Without the Xbox, we wouldn't be at a state we was today. The presentation they made was childish and disrespectful. Could they even run a enterprise service like Azure? No. It'd get hacked.

In a matter of fact, no they have NEVER been hacked. There has never been a technological breach of XBL.

Its DRM matter of fact? Don't you think the developers and hardware engineers aren't gamers too? I bet there was a massive internal voice about the always on-line and where it was heading.

Forza races with AI from the cloud which learn. If the game was offline, you'd be racing by yourself.

Titanfall offloads physics and AI in the cloud, without a connection, you have a lack of functionality and no AI.

Sunset Overdrive is a open-world online game which changes dynamically from the cloud. Hence it always needs to stay online.

Obviously it has DRM points to it, I'm not denying that. The model of games being linked to accounts is for piracy, and used-games. Its simply business. If a publisher has more control of their revenue with one ecosystem, who are they more inclined to put their game on if they get more revenue and control? FUT for FIFA 14, BF4 being shown on the 360 for SP and MP.

They will of thrown money at them, don't get me wrong, but there will of been a lot of talk around the policies and how that supports their business. The fact of the matter is, not all the money is purely in game sales now. Its around the online infrastructure around the games and thats where MS excel at. They have the expertise and the resource to pull it off. Enough said.

Every game ran at 60fps in the MS conference. At the PS4's there was no mention of any of that, and you could see clearly the games stuttering on video.

Just because it was 'encrypted' doesn't mean it wasn't easy to get that information out. It literally could be as simple as putting it in the right decryption online.

I love how you're trying to defend the millions of customer records being lost. It makes it better that there was less of a risk that credit cards got taken, but there's still the sensitive information of millions being lost, and your defending that.

I'm correcting, not defending. Why not aid someone in their misinformation? I seen you were saying millions of credit card details lost and I thought hey, there is overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise, I better share this information with this forum member to help them out.

[JonnyLH]

I'm correcting, not defending. Why not aid someone in their misinformation? I seen you were saying millions of credit card details lost and I thought hey, there is overwhelming evidence to suggest otherwise, I better share this information with this forum member to help them out.

I apologise. I just don't understand how people can be so negative regarding new technology.

[ahhell]

The Destiny presentation was pretty meh, but the game itself looked interesting. I'll definitely be picking up a copy (Hopefully on PC if Bungie haven't forgotten how to make a PC game)

It looked pretty uninspired to me. Bungie was whining about wanting to expand beyond Halo so once they are on their own the make a "Gears of Halo" game.

*sigh*

[HawkMan]

PS4 proves you don't need that kind of DRM.

Provided you don't want all the benefits a fully digital system provides, but lets gloss over that.

[TheLegendOfMart]

I still get that if I buy my games from PSN, not as comprehensive as Microsoft but I have the best of both worlds.

My friends and family pay for their own games, I don't need to set up some elaborate 10 user permissions to access my games, I can download from PSN if I want and don't need to carry disks around and more importantly there is no 24 hour check, no game tying, don't need to be on or have someone on my friends list for 30 days before I can sell a game and I can rent from day one.

Did I mention the console is $100 cheaper?

[HawkMan]

The best of both worlds would be having digital games, that can be shared between all of your family and loaned to friends, can be played on all my consoles without remembering to bring the disk. You know all the advantages of a disk without the drawbacks.

kind of reminds of of something... oh yeah. MS' system.

Also how do you know you can rent form day one. you can't rent until the license holders sell the rent shops disks with rent licenses, they can't rent out regular store bought game disks, they need a special license. Last I checked a month or so ago, I couldn't rent Wii U games form OnePlay yet.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

The best of both worlds would be having digital games, that can be shared between all of your family and loaned to friends, can be played on all my consoles without remembering to bring the disk. You know all the advantages of a disk without the drawbacks.

kind of reminds of of something... oh yeah. MS' system.

In order for something to be the best of both worlds it generally needs to have good benefits for both. You know, like physical discs as well. Its hardly the best of both worlds if all the advantages are only digital based.

MS said no rentals at launch BTW http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-one-microsoft-details-used-games-no-game-rentals-at-launch

[TheLegendOfMart]

The best of both worlds would be having digital games, that can be shared between all of your family and loaned to friends, can be played on all my consoles without remembering to bring the disk. You know all the advantages of a disk without the drawbacks.

kind of reminds of of something... oh yeah. MS' system.

Also how do you know you can rent form day one. you can't rent until the license holders sell the rent shops disks with rent licenses, they can't rent out regular store bought game disks, they need a special license. Last I checked a month or so ago, I couldn't rent Wii U games form OnePlay yet.

I can rent from day one because Sony said it would be HOW IT WAS WITH PS3.

UK rental places don't need special rental disks, they just buy retail copies. I rented Wii U games the day it launched in the UK.