Sony explains why you'll have to pay for online with PS4

[epk]

How is it possible for Valve to offer all the stuff they have on Steam for free? Ok, so not the matchmaking, but they also have communities, messaging, achivements, cloud saving (been there for a while now, even if it doesn't support all games). I don't know.. am I missing something or it just different for consoles?

[TheLegendOfMart]

Dude ...I am going to like every post you make going forward even if you post blank. Just sayin.

Learn to read? "I wouldn't normally buy" is "I have no interest in". (I didn't say you don't like them if you are hell bent on splitting hairs).

I apologise, bad wording on my part. All I meant was games I wouldn't spend ?40 on purely because I don't know if I'd like them thus not wishing to waste money.

How is it possible for Valve to offer all the stuff they have on Steam for free? Ok, so not the matchmaking, but they also have communities, messaging, achivements, cloud saving (been there for a while now, even if it doesn't support all games). I don't know.. am I missing something or it just different for consoles?

Valve gets a cut of all sales and the servers are hosted by the people who make the game or the people who buy the game.

[TheLegendOfMart]

So your idea of participation is complaining that people are commenting in a post you didn't even create, when those comments are not complementary to your agenda? You did not start this post, I did not start this by replying to your comment but to the post in general, but yet you had to jump in and complain about what I wrote.

You posted purely to rile people up, your comments added nothing to the discussion of pay to play on PS4, only to have a dig at some Sony people who had a go at Microsoft for having pay to play thinking you are clever.

[compl3x]

Let's not pretend the games sony "give" away is any less worthless, they may be newer, but they're also the kind of games that those interested in have already bought.

So if Sony offers popular games, they are just offering games people already have. If they offer less popular games you'd argue they are offering crappy quality. Nice way to create a no-win situation.

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Only on this forum would people criticise an almost universally applauded service.

[Rodrigo]

Wow, seriously a bunch of douchebags in this damn place.

MS always forced people to charge for Live from Day 1 if you wanted to play MP online and use services like Netflix.

Sony did not.

MS had the better online service of the 2, obviously having a lot to do with the fact they charged for it.

Sony then released +, which at the time there was nothing like it that MS had, and generally people who used plus, including gaming journalist who wrote about it, dug it.

YES, everyone knows who uses + you only have the games as long as you are a member. SAME damn thing as Netflix, Google All Access Music, and a ton of other SUBSCRIPTION based services. Only an idiot would think you can keep it if you leave.

Now Sony is saying in order to play online MP, you need to join +. So what they are trying to do here is give people something besides just charging them like MS does just for the right to play online. Yet somehow now Sony is the bad guy??

And seriously, MS giving away 3 year old games that you can keep does not make them all noble and awesome. It is about damn time they do something. I think I have 220 points total for their rewards program, and I have been part of XBox Live since Day damn 1.

So yeah, do not come in this thread asking why all of a sudden why did people bitch when MS did it but not Sony. MS made it mandatory from the get go. At least Sony attempted to make it free. They realized that was not going to cut it. And now that they have to charge, at least + is a part of it, which is not just free games, it is discounts on a whole lot of other stuff. So yeah sorry, + still seems like the better deal. Get over it.

I'm pretty sure plenty of people believe they get to keep the free games they downloaded on PS+, so I don't think that makes them "idiots".

And people take the comments the way they want it, apparently. First of all, if anything, nobody is making Sony "the bad guy", it's more about all the stigma all these years about Microsoft charging for XBL and now that Sony does it, it's all good (which is part of this discussion, but somehow it's wrong talking about it, making us douches). And who are you to say Microsoft is not "noble" or "awesome" because they are giving free games? They started doing it now, and that is what matters. Get over it.

[threetonesun]

Valve gets a cut of all sales and the servers are hosted by the people who make the game or the people who buy the game.

As is the case with Microsoft and Sony, mind you.

[Rodrigo]

So if Sony offers popular games, they are just offering games people already have. If they offer less popular games you'd argue they are offering crappy quality. Nice way to create a no-win situation.

------------

Only on this forum would people criticise an almost universally applauded service.

Isn't it kind of ironic that you are saying this? I mean, we can satanize XBL forever here, too, but discussing the quality of the XBL service (like not having what, 1 month downtime and credit card numbers stolen?) is a no-no.

[StephenBratz]

You posted purely to rile people up, your comments added nothing to the discussion of pay to play on PS4, only to have a dig at some Sony people who had a go at Microsoft for having pay to play thinking you are clever.

So pointing out that a number of people have been (I will use a clean word) jerks towards the 360 and their fans, and now getting their just deserts, that is the part that is wrong. Not the people who were doing it, not the people who today are making up lies such as the NSA thing, not the people like the guy last night that posted that Microsoft was being cheap and not shipping an HDMI cable in the box when the list of items that ship in the box lists an HDMI cable, not the people who still believe that Xbox One games will be $100 but PS4 games will be $60 when the same place holder shows the price as $100 and $60 for both consoles, not the people who have no intention on getting an Xbox One but still have the need to attack it even though will not affect them and their gaming. Nope, they are not the ones that are wrong, pointing out how they are being jerks, that is wrong.

[LaP]

How is it possible for Valve to offer all the stuff they have on Steam for free?

Valve has no choice but to give it for free. If they charge people will stop using the service. The market is open to anyone who want to challenge Valve.

Here we talk about closed market. Nobody can challenge sony on the PS side and nobody can challenge MS on the xbox side. They can charge and they do. It's to make money. I think sony should have keep the multiplayer/friend list free and enhance the + experience to convince more people to subscribe to it. This said i paid for Live for many years so wont bother me much as long as it actually is more than just a friend list and a matchmaking system with high latency.

[threetonesun]

And who are you to say Microsoft is not "noble" or "awesome" because they are giving free games? They started doing it now, and that is what matters. Get over it.

They've been giving away free games with Gold for a while now, if you resubscribed at the right times. In fact, it made more sense to cancel and then re-up your subscription than it did to let it auto-renew, because if you did that, you could keep getting free games.

But, they've been trying to get rid of Fable III for about 6 years now, so, it's hardly an incentive.

[TheLegendOfMart]

So pointing out that a number of people have been (I will use a clean word) jerks towards the 360 and their fans, and now getting their just deserts, that is the part that is wrong. Not the people who were doing it, not the people who today are making up lies such as the NSA thing, not the people like the guy last night that posted that Microsoft was being cheap and not shipping an HDMI cable in the box when the list of items that ship in the box lists an HDMI cable, not the people who still believe that Xbox One games will be $100 but PS4 games will be $60 when the same place holder shows the price as $100 and $60 for both consoles, not the people who have no intention on getting an Xbox One but still have the need to attack it even though will not affect them and their gaming. Nope, they are not the ones that are wrong, pointing out how they are being jerks, that is wrong.

Just deserts?

?3000 worth of games in 12 months as well as access to multiplayer?

I mentioned NSA but said nothing about HDMI, or that Xbox games would be more expensive, or that I had no intention of getting Xbox One, I was going to get both until the DRM stuff was announced, Try again.

[Rodrigo]

They've been giving away free games with Gold for a while now, if you resubscribed at the right times. In fact, it made more sense to cancel and then re-up your subscription than it did to let it auto-renew, because if you did that, you could keep getting free games.

But, they've been trying to get rid of Fable III for about 6 years now, so, it's hardly an incentive.

Didn't know about the free games for subs, got a link?

Will play Fable 3 later today and see if it's that bad as everyone says, LOL

[TheLegendOfMart]

They said in Microsoft conference that they are giving away 2 games a month until XB1 launches, Fable 3 was free before E3 conference but AC2 and Halo 3 are coming this month.

Fable 3 is awesome, the last third of the game not so much, but thoroughly enjoyable, I've loved Fable since the first one.

[epk]

Valve has no choice but to give it for free. If they charge people will stop using the service. The market is open to anyone who want to challenge Valve.

Here we talk about closed market. Nobody can challenge sony on the PS side and nobody can challenge MS on the xbox side. They can charge and they do. It's to make money. I think sony should have keep the multiplayer/friend list free and enhance the + experience to convince more people to subscribe to it. This said i paid for Live for many years so wont bother me much as long as it actually is more than just a friend list and a matchmaking system with high latency.

Yeah, I guess this is the reason. On topic, it's not THAT expensive, but I guess coming from nothing it can feel like a bitch move.

[LaP]

Didn't know about the free games for subs, got a link?

Will play Fable 3 later today and see if it's that bad as everyone says, LOL

I did re-up my sub last january instead of letting it renew and i did not get any free game.

But i'm canadian and XBox Live in canada is a big big mehhhhh. Maybe in USA you get free games.

[threetonesun]

Didn't know about the free games for subs, got a link?

Will play Fable 3 later today and see if it's that bad as everyone says, LOL

The pop up on the dashboard if you're a silver member. At one point after Kinect came out they were giving away something like five games if you rejoined for a year.

[HawkMan]

Wow, seriously a bunch of douchebags in this damn place.

MS always forced people to charge for Live from Day 1 if you wanted to play MP online and use services like Netflix.

Sony did not.

MS had the better online service of the 2, obviously having a lot to do with the fact they charged for it.

Sony then released +, which at the time there was nothing like it that MS had, and generally people who used plus, including gaming journalist who wrote about it, dug it.

YES, everyone knows who uses + you only have the games as long as you are a member. SAME damn thing as Netflix, Google All Access Music, and a ton of other SUBSCRIPTION based services. Only an idiot would think you can keep it if you leave.

Now Sony is saying in order to play online MP, you need to join +. So what they are trying to do here is give people something besides just charging them like MS does just for the right to play online. Yet somehow now Sony is the bad guy??

And seriously, MS giving away 3 year old games that you can keep does not make them all noble and awesome. It is about damn time they do something. I think I have 220 points total for their rewards program, and I have been part of XBox Live since Day damn 1.

So yeah, do not come in this thread asking why all of a sudden why did people bitch when MS did it but not Sony. MS made it mandatory from the get go. At least Sony attempted to make it free. They realized that was not going to cut it. And now that they have to charge, at least + is a part of it, which is not just free games, it is discounts on a whole lot of other stuff. So yeah sorry, + still seems like the better deal. Get over it.

Sony made it free because their system was incomplete and lacked 90% of the features of Live and proper online services. they couldn't charge for it. MS launched a fully complete services.

I've been saying since the launch of last gen that, come next generation when sony has a fully developed online system and with a new generation giving them a good excuse to start charging, they would be charging. It costs way to much to develop and run the online system, and with Sony's current economic sitation on top of it.

[compl3x]

Isn't it kind of ironic that you are saying this? I mean, we can satanize XBL forever here, too, but discussing the quality of the XBL service (like not having what, 1 month downtime and credit card numbers stolen?) is a no-no.

How is it ironic? I've never demonized XBL. I have always thought the pricing was a bit steep and they could have kicked a few feebies subscribers' way.

I was on this forum when the Sony breach occurred, if you think this forum didn't erupt into an all-out hate-fest of Sony then you're kidding yourself. People on here reveled in the fact Sony had been compromised.

[Rodrigo]

They said in Microsoft conference that they are giving away 2 games a month until XB1 launches, Fable 3 was free before E3 conference but AC2 and Halo 3 are coming this month.

Fable 3 is awesome, the last third of the game not so much, but thoroughly enjoyable, I've loved Fable since the first one.

Yes, actually, the xbox page says the promotion lasts till the end of the year.

[StephenBratz]

Just deserts?

?3000 worth of games in 12 months as well as access to multiplayer?

I mentioned NSA but said nothing about HDMI, or that Xbox games would be more expensive, or that I had no intention of getting Xbox One, I was going to get both until the DRM stuff was announced, Try again.

And again, list all these games that you got for free, the MSRP of each game, and the games you will be able to keep if you stop paying to prove that ?3000 price. All I know is for the "free" service Sony provided to me, I had my credit card info compromised which cost me time and money. There is no way I would pay them for their services. In over a decade of paying for Microsoft services, I have not had my CC info leaked.

HEY!!!! You are trying to sidetrack this thread from the original topic by talking about Microsoft DRM! Please stay on topic.

[TheLegendOfMart]

And again, list all these games that you got for free, the MSRP of each game, and the games you will be able to keep if you stop paying to prove that ?3000 price. All I know is for the "free" service Sony provided to me, I had my credit card info compromised which cost me time and money. There is no way I would pay them for their services. In over a decade of paying for Microsoft services, I have not had my CC info leaked.

HEY!!!! You are trying to sidetrack this thread from the original topic by talking about Microsoft DRM! Please stay on topic.

Your credit card info was encrypted, only your PSN user and pass was compromised.

Also this topic is about Sonys pay to play which is PS+ subscription, so I am on topic smartarse. I said as part of subscription, not free to keep.

[Rodrigo]

How is it ironic? I've never demonized XBL. I have always thought the pricing was a bit steep and they could have kicked a few feebies subscribers' way.

I was on this forum when the Sony breach occurred, if you think this forum didn't erupt into an all-out hate-fest of Sony then you're kidding yourself. People on here reveled in the fact Sony had been compromised.

I wasn't saying you specifically satanized XBL, I was talking in general.

And I agree, I was here too when that breach happened. It's ironic because XBL is equally an "almost universally applauded service", but I suppose some people will disagree and complain.

[trooper11]

So what they are trying to do here is give people something besides just charging them like MS does just for the right to play online. Yet somehow now Sony is the bad guy??

And seriously, MS giving away 3 year old games that you can keep does not make them all noble and awesome. It is about damn time they do something. I think I have 220 points total for their rewards program, and I have been part of XBox Live since Day damn 1.

So yeah, do not come in this thread asking why all of a sudden why did people bitch when MS did it but not Sony. MS made it mandatory from the get go. At least Sony attempted to make it free. They realized that was not going to cut it. And now that they have to charge, at least + is a part of it, which is not just free games, it is discounts on a whole lot of other stuff. So yeah sorry, + still seems like the better deal. Get over it.

You calling other posters douchebags and then railing against MS giving away games for free and in general pointing out how terrible xbl gold is or will be in comparison just doesn't make sense.

Why is it so hard for some of you to give credit to both? Its not just you, plenty on both sides of the argument do it. People rail against people railing against something and the cycle repeats.

I see two online subscriptions getting better. Not just the paid side, but xbl and psn in general.

I see MS pushing dedicated servers as standard for all games. I see them offering more gaming perks like free games (that are not tied to gold apparently). Like Ps plus, they have their share of exclusive sale prices (I'm not arguing which sales are better, just that they exist), and they also offer early access to demos and some betas like Ps plus (Ps plus has offered more beta access though). I see them continuing cloud saves and expanding to include cloud access to any retail game you buy plus day one digital versions for all releases (Sony already does some day one digital releases). MS also fixed the friends list issue and seem to have improved their matchmaking system (we will have to see that in practice).

Sony has made huge strides with Ps plus this gen and it appears they will do even more. They will continue offering access to rotating titles each month for no extra charge. They are adding cross game chat and cloud services that they will leverage through Gakai. There will be some service to access older titles via the cloud (not sure if that is a subscription service or pay per title). They will offer all the cloud save features and I'm sure they will continue to offer day one digital releases and exclusive sales, etc. I assume they will also do something for dedicated server support for all games. Also, there is a lot we don't know about what else Gakai may bring to the platform.

Sorry, but I find value in both. Arguing over what games you personally like is a waste. Game taste is going to vary. Its the general features that matter overall. I'm glad to see Sony push aggressively forward since it seems to also push MS and vice versa.

[compl3x]

I see the mod's warning about not trolling or flame-baiting has been completely ignored. This topic got 1/2 a dozen posts in before someone had to lay down the gauntlet and entice an argument.

[BajiRav]

Wow, seriously a bunch of douchebags in this damn place.

MS always forced people to charge for Live from Day 1 if you wanted to play MP online and use services like Netflix.

Sony did not.

MS had the better online service of the 2, obviously having a lot to do with the fact they charged for it.

Sony then released +, which at the time there was nothing like it that MS had, and generally people who used plus, including gaming journalist who wrote about it, dug it.

YES, everyone knows who uses + you only have the games as long as you are a member. SAME damn thing as Netflix, Google All Access Music, and a ton of other SUBSCRIPTION based services. Only an idiot would think you can keep it if you leave.

Now Sony is saying in order to play online MP, you need to join +. So what they are trying to do here is give people something besides just charging them like MS does just for the right to play online. Yet somehow now Sony is the bad guy??

And seriously, MS giving away 3 year old games that you can keep does not make them all noble and awesome. It is about damn time they do something. I think I have 220 points total for their rewards program, and I have been part of XBox Live since Day damn 1.

So yeah, do not come in this thread asking why all of a sudden why did people bitch when MS did it but not Sony. MS made it mandatory from the get go. At least Sony attempted to make it free. They realized that was not going to cut it. And now that they have to charge, at least + is a part of it, which is not just free games, it is discounts on a whole lot of other stuff. So yeah sorry, + still seems like the better deal. Get over it.

I don't think anyone here is saying Sony is a "bad guy". It's mostly people who complained about XBLGold but are ok with paying for PS+ (for online play).