Sony explains why you'll have to pay for online with PS4

[ctrl_alt_delete]

In the past 12 months Sony have given me nearly ?3000 worth of games as part of my subscription, Microsoft has given me 20 Microsoft points (1 pence) for my Birthday. If they continue to give me ?3000 worth of software as well as multiplayer as part of my PS+ subscription I don't really see the comparison.

Microsoft has EVERYTHING locked behind Gold paywall and they only recently started to give away games which are 4 and 6 years old so worthless anyway.

This ^ is way against the point. I've met many playstation users who asked me what console I use. I'd tell them Xbox and they would all say something similar to "you pay to play? Hahaha, I don't pay to play, only suckers pay to play".

The fact is many playstation users use to laugh at Xbox live users but now that they'll have to pay also it suddenly becomes ok.

Why not jump on Sony about this paywall just like how you/amd others are on microsofts back about the 24hr check and used games??

Or it's just that people are simply two sided?

[Rodrigo]

As I understood it with MS system though, they are actually GIVING you the game. so you can play it with or without a subscription after you get it. I may be wrong, but that's how it seemed from what they said.

Also with the PS+ system what happens if you lose a payment and the sub drops and you resub. the old games that are no longer part of the plan, do you lose them as they have time bombed or are they reinstated. I believe in the past there was some discussion that if you you dropped PS+ for a month you actually lost the previous titles, is that how it works or was that changed or something ?

Yes, those games are going to become ours to keep, forever and even if we don't have Gold. I am honestly waiting to download the free games because my library is not really big.

Hopefully, once Microsoft sees the success they will keep giving us full (worthless) games. :)

[BajiRav]

They are worthless, 4 and 6 year old games.

Sony gives away brand new games and games that are less than 12 months old that I wouldn't normally have spent money on.

As long as you "bought" them whenever you resub you get access to ALL of the games, I have stuff still available going back to when they first implemented Instant Game Collection.

So Sony is giving away games that you have no interest in but Microsoft is giving a game that still has a good community backing it. Why is one better than other?

[StephenBratz]

I always hear this about the dashboard being full of ads, but I really don't get that. On my dashboard the only place I see an ad is a small square in the content sections. People talk like they are everywhere and in your face. On my ps3, I also see small ads when I'm exploring content in the market, so I just don't get the big deal.

At the first X1 reveal, it was interesting to see that the dashboard didn't have any ads, not even the small squares, so we will see if MS and Sony change how those are displayed.

Regarding the value of the services, its very subjective. You guys love to make grand arguments on both sides, but the reality is not black and white.

I see xbl gold and Ps plus getting better next gen, which is a great thing. Both are being advanced in terms of gaming features.

This is part of the argument against 360, while the PS3 had them and it was OK because the service was free and they need to pay for it some how. Now the real test is will Sony display ads with a paid account, or will they remove them? And remember, everything, such as "Click here to download your free expansion pack" was considered an ad. And if Sony does show them, what will the response be then. I think I know.

[TheLegendOfMart]

This ^ is way against the point. I've met many playstation users who asked me what console I use. I'd tell them Xbox and they would all say something similar to "you pay to play? Hahaha, I don't pay to play, only suckers pay to play".

The fact is many playstation users use to laugh at Xbox live users but now that they'll have to pay also it suddenly becomes ok.

Why not jump on Sony about this paywall just like how you/amd others are on microsofts back about the 24hr check and used games??

Or it's just that people are simply two sided?

I've already said on many threads, including straight after Sony E3 conference that I am bitterly disappointed in that it's gone pay to play so try again.

So Sony is giving away games that you have no interest in but Microsoft is giving a game that still has a good community backing it. Why is one better than other?

Where did I say I had no interest in them?

There are at least one or two games a month that I wouldn't spend ?40 on because I don't know if I'd like them.

[trooper11]

What?

It's not because "its Microsoft", it's because it's a sh*tty model, pay to play online will be under Sonys PS+ subscription which gives you at least 3-5 games PER MONTH , that's hardly a bad thing.

One thing to keep in mind though is that most of the stuff you get from Ps plus is only a rental, as in you lose access if you stop paying. I assume it will be similar with xbl.

That kept me from paying for Ps plus not to mention the fact that I often already own the games Sony offers in their rotation. Same for the new xbl service. But, maybe my buying habits will change more next gen and instead of buying games, I wait for them to show up on Ps plus or xbl gold.

I would be very surprised if Microsoft changed their stance on that. I mean, they've had how many years now to get rid of that paywall. Plus, I'm sure a large part of Microsoft business model is to get people to buy the console and pay for live. I don't think they're very interested in console sales alone. You have to remember, over the course of 5 years, if you have Live the entire time, you've basically bought 1.5 consoles from them.

I wouldn't be so shocked for a few reasons.

1. One of the two OSes on the X1 is a windows 8 core

2. They made a point to show how they offer a robust non gaming app environment because of it

3. MS strategy company wide is integrating all of their devices through software and familiar ui

I think its very possible that you see MS announce the windows store (in some form tailored for tv interaction) coming to the X1, allowing for a traditional app platform. This could also allow for a great indie platform. I think MS will instead try to offer exclusive content for gold subscribers in place of the app access (i.e. stuff like the halo series and future content made for the platform).

We will know if this true and about the whole developer story at BUILD at the end of June. Remember, MS has talked little about their dev plans other than some hints about an indie service they are working on. BUILD should answer these questions.

[LaP]

As long as they put that money back into developing the services I guess I can live with it, if it's just a pure money grab I am going to be annoyed. I am paid up till Feb 2014 with PS+ anyway and I shall be extending it soon so guess it doesn't really affect me.

Well as long as they offer me more than just a friend list and a matchmking system it could be ok.

I don't know about PS+ since i never actually tried the service. I owned n Xbox and curently own a 360 and i'm a 8 years XBox Live subscriber. If they come with a service that is the same price as gold they need to increase the value offered. Gold in canada is not worth what MS is asking for. Maybe in US it is worth it but not here. For 60$ a year i'm really expecting more than a friend list, a matchmaking system and ads. A demo for all games would be a start ...

[BajiRav]

Where did I say I had no interest in them?

Right there in that quoted post...

[TheLegendOfMart]

Right there in that quoted post...

Learn to read then, "games I wouldn't normally have tried" doesn't mean "I don't like them", it just means I wouldn't have spent ?40 on them because it's a lot of money to waste on a game I might not like.

Funny how most of the posts in here and other PS4 threads are from Microsoft fans on the defensive. Go play in your own forum and leave the grown ups to talk.

[Rodrigo]

One thing to keep in mind though is that most of the stuff you get from Ps plus is only a rental, as in you lose access if you stop paying. I assume it will be similar with xbl.

No. Actually you will keep the games in the case of the Xbox.

http://www.destructoid.com/xbox-live-gold-two-free-games-a-month-are-yours-to-keep-255992.phtml

[spudtrooper]

I would be very surprised if Microsoft changed their stance on that. I mean, they've had how many years now to get rid of that paywall. Plus, I'm sure a large part of Microsoft business model is to get people to buy the console and pay for live. I don't think they're very interested in console sales alone. You have to remember, over the course of 5 years, if you have Live the entire time, you've basically bought 1.5 consoles from them.

Who cares? Over the course of all those years we also had continues updates, refinements to dashboard and app after app and guess what, the service has been playable every day, day in and day out. The fact I could pay 30.00 a year to have my device updated to do more than it did the prior year is a good deal. And yes, amazon.com has live.com as low as 30.00 throughout the year and its not heard to find a deal. Microsoft stores also hand out free months like candy if you go to any events and if you participate in any Microsoft programs its painfully easy to get points/credits/months there too.

not to mention big rewards and many other programs to get free crap..

[ahhell]

Learn to read then, "games I wouldn't normally have tried" doesn't mean "I don't like them", it just means I wouldn't have spent ?40 on them.

Funny how most of the posts in here are from Microsoft fans on the defensive. Go play in your own forum and leave the grown ups to talk.

MS fans on the defensive? Are you high? You seem to be the one that is going bat**** crazy whenever anyone says anything critical about Sony/PS4.

:s

[Matrix XII]

This ^ is way against the point. I've met many playstation users who asked me what console I use. I'd tell them Xbox and they would all say something similar to "you pay to play? Hahaha, I don't pay to play, only suckers pay to play".

The fact is many playstation users use to laugh at Xbox live users but now that they'll have to pay also it suddenly becomes ok.

Why not jump on Sony about this paywall just like how you/amd others are on microsofts back about the 24hr check and used games??

Or it's just that people are simply two sided?

Sony implementing a paywall and what MS is doing with the 24hr check and used games are totally different issues. Paywalls have existed on consoles since 2005 and MS has been very successful with theirs. It's not seen as something anti-consumer or abnormal. Some will moan and groan to Sony and I understand that because there hasn't been charges for online in the past, but it's not something that is taking away our rights as consumers (it actually helps the online product as a whole). MS implementing required online 24hr checks, essentially abolishing used video games are such different issues than a paywall and so much more anti-consumer.

[The Evil Overlord]

I haven't read the other replies, so if this has already been posted, I apologise.

I personally will not have a problem with paying for a ps+ sub if, in return, sony are more active in getting cheaters banned, hell IMO as far as I'm concerned the psn mods can deactivate the online cheaters' consoles while they're at it.

(by this I mean deactivate the ability to connect to psn)

[TheLegendOfMart]

MS fans on the defensive? Are you high? You seem to be the one that is going bat**** crazy whenever anyone says anything critical about Sony/PS4.

:s

I want to talk about the console I am going to buy, every thread starts and gets suddenly trashed by Microsoft fans voting it 1 star.

People were trying to discuss the OP then StephenBratz chimes in comparing it to 360 and having a go at Sony fans for having a go at Microsoft, you can spot all the fans on the defensive, they are the ones pressing like on his post and the ones who constantly join threads and drag them down.

[The Evil Overlord]

I want to talk about the console I am going to buy, every thread starts and gets suddenly trashed by Microsoft fans voting it 1 star.

Yup, passive-aggressive trolling at it's finest...

I prefer the "less impressive", as some might put it, ps4 as well, I want a games console, if I wanted a multiple media device I'd think about getting the xbox

[StephenBratz]

I want to talk about the console I am going to buy, every thread starts and gets suddenly trashed by Microsoft fans voting it 1 star.

People were trying to discuss the OP then StephenBratz chimes in comparing it to 360 and having a go at Sony fans for having a go at Microsoft, you can spot all the fans on the defensive, they are the ones pressing like and the ones who constantly join threads and drag them down.

Oh noes, have I upset your little party of making up rumor after rumor to bash Microsoft so you can praise Sony? All I know is for months every time I would visit NeoWin I would see forum topic after topic posted by you taking every rumor, twisting it into another "Microsoft likes to eat babies" attack, but now I start questioning Sony and I am just a horrible person who is on the defense and being mean to poor, poor Sony? You drag down every thread that has anything to do with gaming to make sure that Sony is made to be the savior of the gaming industry. So quit the whining, if you cant take the heat, then stop posting because you are just going to get back what you have been doing for months.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Questioning Sony by dragging up years old argument of pay vs no pay to play?

[Rodrigo]

I want to talk about the console I am going to buy, every thread starts and gets suddenly trashed by Microsoft fans voting it 1 star.

People were trying to discuss the OP then StephenBratz chimes in comparing it to 360 and having a go at Sony fans for having a go at Microsoft, you can spot all the fans on the defensive, they are the ones pressing like on his post and the ones who constantly join threads and drag them down.

haha, now you are like an angel "People were trying to discuss the OP", and get mad because it gets "offtopic" (I believe it's fair to compare and discuss XBL here). It's not like you don't do the same on Xbox topics, just saying.

And calling me a "fan on the defensive" because I clicked "like"? Sure, whatever floats your boat. I clicked like because I wholeheartedly agree with what he said, so I don't have to repeat the same in this post. Again, not everyone does the same things with the same purpose.

Months and months?

You mean after May 21st when they announced the Xbox one for first time?

Yeah... I am preeeetty sure you have been here before that.

[threetonesun]

I wouldn't be so shocked for a few reasons.

1. One of the two OSes on the X1 is a windows 8 core

2. They made a point to show how they offer a robust non gaming app environment because of it

3. MS strategy company wide is integrating all of their devices through software and familiar ui

I think its very possible that you see MS announce the windows store (in some form tailored for tv interaction) coming to the X1, allowing for a traditional app platform. This could also allow for a great indie platform. I think MS will instead try to offer exclusive content for gold subscribers in place of the app access (i.e. stuff like the halo series and future content made for the platform).

We will know if this true and about the whole developer story at BUILD at the end of June. Remember, MS has talked little about their dev plans other than some hints about an indie service they are working on. BUILD should answer these questions.

The one huge difference there, as you noted, is that the Xbox is connected to your TV. I think the convenience is why they'll keep charging.

Microsoft stores also hand out free months like candy if you go to any events and if you participate in any Microsoft programs its painfully easy to get points/credits/months there too.

Yes, it's like they're just giving it away. :laugh:

[StephenBratz]

WHAT!?!?!?! People have a different opinion than you do and want to make their voice heard among the constant, non-stop attacks against them simply because they want to spend their own money to buy a product and don't buy into the B.S. such as how MS is going to directly pipe your voice and video directly to the NSA or how DRM will ruin their lives, or how a daily ping against a server will bring down civilizations around the world? How DARE they make their opinions know?

[Original Poster]

As long as they put that money back into developing the services I guess I can live with it, if it's just a pure money grab I am going to be annoyed. I am paid up till Feb 2014 with PS+ anyway and I shall be extending it soon so guess it doesn't really affect me.

its not like its just online is basically PSplus but you have to buy it to play online you get loads of cloud service and free games.

[TheLegendOfMart]

Yeah I know, but if they are charging for online they need to improve the service and not just use it as a money grab.

[DirtyLarry Veteran]

Wow, seriously a bunch of douchebags in this damn place.

MS always forced people to charge for Live from Day 1 if you wanted to play MP online and use services like Netflix.

Sony did not.

MS had the better online service of the 2, obviously having a lot to do with the fact they charged for it.

Sony then released +, which at the time there was nothing like it that MS had, and generally people who used plus, including gaming journalist who wrote about it, dug it.

YES, everyone knows who uses + you only have the games as long as you are a member. SAME damn thing as Netflix, Google All Access Music, and a ton of other SUBSCRIPTION based services. Only an idiot would think you can keep it if you leave.

Now Sony is saying in order to play online MP, you need to join +. So what they are trying to do here is give people something besides just charging them like MS does just for the right to play online. Yet somehow now Sony is the bad guy??

And seriously, MS giving away 3 year old games that you can keep does not make them all noble and awesome. It is about damn time they do something. I think I have 220 points total for their rewards program, and I have been part of XBox Live since Day damn 1.

So yeah, do not come in this thread asking why all of a sudden why did people bitch when MS did it but not Sony. MS made it mandatory from the get go. At least Sony attempted to make it free. They realized that was not going to cut it. And now that they have to charge, at least + is a part of it, which is not just free games, it is discounts on a whole lot of other stuff. So yeah sorry, + still seems like the better deal. Get over it.

[BajiRav]

Oh noes, have I upset your little party of making up rumor after rumor to bash Microsoft so you can praise Sony? All I know is for months every time I would visit NeoWin I would see forum topic after topic posted by you taking every rumor, twisting it into another "Microsoft likes to eat babies" attack, but now I start questioning Sony and I am just a horrible person who is on the defense and being mean to poor, poor Sony? You drag down every thread that has anything to do with gaming to make sure that Sony is made to be the savior of the gaming industry. So quit the whining, if you cant take the heat, then stop posting because you are just going to get back what you have been doing for months.

Dude ...I am going to like every post you make going forward even if you post blank. Just sayin.

Learn to read then, "games I wouldn't normally have tried" doesn't mean "I don't like them", it just means I wouldn't have spent ?40 on them because it's a lot of money to waste on a game I might not like.

Funny how most of the posts in here and other PS4 threads are from Microsoft fans on the defensive. Go play in your own forum and leave the grown ups to talk.

Learn to read? "I wouldn't normally buy" is "I have no interest in". (I didn't say you don't like them if you are hell bent on splitting hairs).