PS4 grabs 95% of Consumer Votes after Amazon shuts poll down early

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Grand Master

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It's a license check, big ****ing deal.  It's similar to KMS activation with Windows.

 

Windows does it once. I can unplug my ethernet cable on my PC now and be done with it. So no, it's really not similar to Windows.

Grand Master

Noir Angel

Posted
Posted

Wasn't it Amazon that announced record pre-orders for the XB1 as well? I smell a well paid rat.

 

 

"Great sales" as in special offers? How do you know Xbox One won't offer more of those?

 

Xbox One works offline too. Just like Steam, it needs to phone home periodically to see if required updates are available. We don't know yet what the ad experience will be like on Xbox One, but most Xbox dashboard ads are for games today.

 

They're similar internet-based digital distribution platforms for games. Of course people are going to compare them.

I ran Steam in offline mode for about 5 weeks when I was switching ISP's about 14 months back. Not once did it throw me out or demand I connect to the Internet to keep working.
Grand Master

ahhell

Posted
Posted

Windows does it once. I can unplug my ethernet cable on my PC now and be done with it. So no, it's really not similar to Windows.

I said KMS ACTIVATION.  You aren't using KMS at home.

######, do you even read what people write?

Grand Master

+Audioboxer Subscriber²

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I said KMS ACTIVATION.  You aren't using KMS at home.

****, do you even read what people write?

 

I clearly thought it was what the home user used, why would something a company use be of any relevance in a topic about DRM on a video games console? The majority use a games console at home, or at a home environment.

 

If you're getting that angry maybe you should avoid the GH for a while.

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

 

Wasn't it Amazon that announced record pre-orders for the XB1 as well? I smell a well paid rat.

 

 

I ran Steam in offline mode for about 5 weeks when I was switching ISP's about 14 months back. Not once did it throw me out or demand I connect to the Internet to keep working.

 

Paid rat who allowed 95% people to vote for PS4? yeah that makes sense... :/

Last time look at steam big sale, it was like 75% of most titles. Thats never going to happen with XboxLive. And xboxOne "offline" isnt really "offline" if you need to connect to the interent once a day. With steam when you go offline it can be for good! none of this once a day thing.

Steam sales are meaningless to people who don't have internet and your internet seems to be unreliable.

 

With hyperbole out of the way, what the ###### is with people and internet problems? Before all this ###### blew up, I have never seen so many people worried about internet connection. Do you guys still use postal service for posting on the neowin or what?

There are legitimate reasons for hating on XB1 but "BUT BUT my internet MAYBE down once in 10 years" isn't one of them. :/

 

(before anyone gets to it : don't like used/rental/loan blocks on XB1 and not buying it at launch)

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Athernar

Posted
Posted

"Great sales" as in special offers? How do you know Xbox One won't offer more of those?

 

Xbox One works offline too. Just like Steam, it needs to phone home periodically to see if required updates are available. We don't know yet what the ad experience will be like on Xbox One, but most Xbox dashboard ads are for games today.

 

They're similar internet-based digital distribution platforms for games. Of course people are going to compare them.

 

That's a bit weasel-y there. While obviously both services would need to check remotely for updates, the subtle implication that Steam has to "phone home" like the Xbone with it's 24-hour restriction is rather underhanded.

 

You're certainly right they're both internet-based DD platforms, but the simply fact is - Steam has competition and runs on the PC where DD rules. The Xbone has no competition, runs on consoles where physical media rules, and will continue to rule for the next few years.

Enthusiast

mrdeezus

Posted
Posted

It's far easier to rally people against something than for something these days.

 

Look how many people hate DRM!  Nevermind whether or not they actually play games, they might buy a PS4 because they hate DRM!  (I am not generalizing here, but I have seen examples of it.)

Yea so many people hate DRM, especially all the iTunes and steam users.

Grand Master

spenser.d

Posted
Posted

That's a bit weasel-y there. While obviously both services would need to check remotely for updates, the subtle implication that Steam has to "phone home" like the Xbone with it's 24-hour restriction is rather underhanded.

 

You're certainly right they're both internet-based DD platforms, but the simply fact is - Steam has competition and runs on the PC where DD rules. The Xbone has no competition, runs on consoles where physical media rules, and will continue to rule for the next few years.

 

And the current generation has lasted 8 years so far.  How long do you think the next one is going to last.  Microsoft is showing that they're ready now and that they've got the infrastructure and framework in place to fully support a DD world on the consoles (and are actively trying to move the industry towards that model).  People may not flock to it en masse (relative to PS4) at first, but Microsoft doesn't need them to.

Grand Master

Noir Angel

Posted
Posted

Paid rat who allowed 95% people to vote for PS4? yeah that makes sense... :/

 

No, what I meant was Amazon generated the hype for the XB1 by claiming it had shown record level pre orders, and when this survey indicated that they might be telling fibs they seemed to pull it rather hurriedly.

Veteran

Athernar

Posted
Posted

And the current generation has lasted 8 years so far.  How long do you think the next one is going to last.  Microsoft is showing that they're ready now and that they've got the infrastructure and framework in place to fully support a DD world on the consoles (and are actively trying to move the industry towards that model).  People may not flock to it en masse (relative to PS4) at first, but Microsoft doesn't need them to.

 

However long the next generation lasts is irrelevant, the DD transition will occur naturally over time - just like it did for the PC.

 

You don't need any of these restrictions or other nonsense.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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However long the next generation lasts is irrelevant, the DD transition will occur naturally over time - just like it did for the PC.

 

You don't need any of these restrictions or other nonsense.

 

There are a lot of parties involved in making something like this happen. Remember how iTunes started out with very strict DRM to appease the RIAA? And over time became far more relaxed? (or in the case of purchased tracks, is gone?)

 

This is a similar thing, though we're already talking about something far less draconian than how iTunes started out, with a lot more concessions to the consumer like trading, gifting, playing at a friend's house, etc. More importantly, the vast majority of players (i.e. the non-pirates) won't notice any new restrictions, but instead will benefit from a lot of awesome new features. No more discs needed to play. Instant switching between any games in your library, or instantly jump into any game when you get an invite while watching TV or movies. Play games at your friends' house without carrying discs around.

 

I think a lot of people are getting stuck in hypotheticals like if your internet connection goes down for a prolonged period of time and you want to play a single player game. Thing is, that's (rare for most people) error case which they haven't even yet discussed how it will be dealt with. How do you know there won't be something like what Steam does? Steam phones home regularly if a connection is available, even in "offline" mode, and will not let you play offline if there's an update. But if there is no connection at all, it will let you go longer. I wouldn't be surprised if MS ends up wit a system closer to that than what others have assumed will arrive.

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Athernar

Posted
Posted

There are a lot of parties involved in making something like this happen. Remember how iTunes started out with very strict DRM to appease the RIAA? And over time became far more relaxed? (or in the case of purchased tracks, is gone?)

 

This is a similar thing, though we're already talking about something far less draconian than how iTunes started out, with a lot more concessions to the consumer like trading, gifting, playing at a friend's house, etc. More importantly, the vast majority of players (i.e. the non-pirates) won't notice any new restrictions, but instead will benefit from a lot of awesome new features. No more discs needed to play. Instant switching between any games in your library, or instantly jump into any game when you get an invite while watching TV or movies. Play games at your friends' house without carrying discs around.

 

I think a lot of people are getting stuck in hypotheticals like if your internet connection goes down for a prolonged period of time and you want to play a single player game. Thing is, that's (rare for most people) error case which they haven't even yet discussed how it will be dealt with. How do you know there won't be something like what Steam does? Steam phones home regularly if a connection is available, even in "offline" mode, and will not let you play offline if there's an update. But if there is no connection at all, it will let you go longer. I wouldn't be surprised if MS ends up wit a system closer to that than what others have assumed will arrive.

 

As scummy as certain publishers are, they're still not comparable to the RIAA. Especially as they have to actually concern themselves with making sales, rather than leeching off the entire industry. So the comparison here falls rather flat.

 

As for Steam and updates, you can choose if you want Steam to autoupdate or not - a friend of mine does this with Dota 2 because Steampipe cripples his old PC, and he likes to play a lot of out-of-Steam F2P titles. It's probably also worth pointing out that the update "restriction" is more to do with a current inadequacy of the Steam client, rather than an explicit choice to prevent play.

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Anthony Tosie Veteran

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I'm not surprised. The gaming communities flooded the poll. It's obviously not indicative of the actual market share each console will receive, much like some of the user ratings on Metacritic aren't indicative of all user opinions because they've been massively influenced.

 

Pretty sure the PS4 will still dominate the early sales period. If Microsoft has no solid reaction, it may well dominate the entire generation as well.

Grand Master

Brandon Live Veteran

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As scummy as certain publishers are, they're still not comparable to the RIAA. Especially as they have to actually concern themselves with making sales, rather than leeching off the entire industry. So the comparison here falls rather flat.

 

As for Steam and updates, you can choose if you want Steam to autoupdate or not - a friend of mine does this with Dota 2 because Steampipe cripples his old PC, and he likes to play a lot of out-of-Steam F2P titles. It's probably also worth pointing out that the update "restriction" is more to do with a current inadequacy of the Steam client, rather than an explicit choice to prevent play.

 

Publishers are just one of the parties I was referring to. There are also retailers. And with publishers trying things like Online Pass and the whole Sim City debacle, you don't think publishers are pushing for some of these restrictions? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...

 

Steam enforces that updates be installed for Offline Mode to continue working so they can revise the offline policy or remediate hacks that give unauthorized access to games (i.e. piracy). In other (scarier) words, "DRM."

Veteran

Athernar

Posted
Posted

Publishers are just one of the parties I was referring to. There are also retailers. And with publishers trying things like Online Pass and the whole Sim City debacle, you don't think publishers are pushing for some of these restrictions? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...

 

Steam enforces that updates be installed for Offline Mode to continue working so they can revise the offline policy or remediate hacks that give unauthorized access to games (i.e. piracy). In other (scarier) words, "DRM."

 

No, I think that publishers are quite content to sit back and watch how the situation unfolds. They obviously don't care enough since Sony has managed to continue the status quo. And seeing as retailers stand to lose the most over this, I don't think Microsoft really cares about their input.

 

As far as Steam goes, to my understanding when autoupdating is disabled per-game, checks are only made on launch - so if you enable offline mode beforehand you're fine.

Grand Master

theyarecomingforyou

Posted
Posted

There are a lot of parties involved in making something like this happen. Remember how iTunes started out with very strict DRM to appease the RIAA? And over time became far more relaxed? (or in the case of purchased tracks, is gone?)

 

This is a similar thing, though we're already talking about something far less draconian than how iTunes started out, with a lot more concessions to the consumer like trading, gifting, playing at a friend's house, etc.

Firstly, Apple was required to implement that DRM in order to get access to the music libraries of music publishers. That simply isn't the case with games publishers, as evidenced by the PS4's traditional disc-based approach. Secondly, the 24hr check-in required by the X1 certainly is more draconian than iTunes' DRM. If for any reason you cannot access the Microsoft servers then you lose access to your games and?as we've seen with Steam and Battle.net?server outages will happen. We mustn't forget that Sony was compromised by repeated DDOS attacks and it's likely that Microsoft will see similar attacks made against it.

 

The reality is that Microsoft has opted for this course of its own volition and many people are rightly concerned. Microsoft stated that one of the advantages of the DRM is the ability to offer lower prices but we already know that the company will be releasing games at the top end of the current price bracket. That's without other concerns, like the Kinect's always-on status when combined with hackers and intrusive governments (the US government being the obvious example).

 

Don't get me wrong, the digital distribution approach has many advantages and Steam is an obvious example of that. However, a lot of people don't trust Microsoft as the company has a long history of anti-competitive business practices. I don't think anyone believes for one minute that Microsoft is doing this for the best interests of gamers. This is a power play in order to cosy up with publishers at the expense of gamers. If I were a console gamer I'd be opting for the PS4 despite the impressive features offered by the X1.

Grand Master

ahhell

Posted
Posted

 

The reality is that Microsoft has opted for this course of its own volition and many people are rightly concerned. Microsoft stated that one of the advantages of the DRM is the ability to offer lower prices but we already know that the company will be releasing games at the top end of the current price bracket. That's without other concerns, like the Kinect's always-on status when combined with hackers and intrusive governments (the US government being the obvious example).

Still on this?  Kinect is NOT always on.  MS has said this numerous times.

Veteran

Athernar

Posted
Posted

Still on this?  Kinect is NOT always on.  MS has said this numerous times.

 

Considering he explicitly mentioned hackers and spying I'm fairly certain he means always-connected.

 

I.e. It might not be always on normally, but that's irrelevant if someone gains access and activates it.

Collaborator

John Nemesh

Posted
Posted

So Steam is a DRM ad service?

QUIT WITH THE F***ING STEAM COMPARISONS!  We are not comparing the new consoles to Steam, we are comparing to the previous gen consoles!  The Steam comparisons HAVE to be coming from Microsoft's "reputation managers", I see this comparison on EVERY comment thread discussing the XBone!  ENOUGH!

Still on this?  Kinect is NOT always on.  MS has said this numerous times.

It's on enough to listen to "xbox on", so it's on enough for PRISM or anyone else to turn it on remotely, without your knowledge!  Unless you are allowed to TOTALLY disconnect the device, you are going to be vunerable to SOMEONE being able to watch what you do...its SOFTWARE, people, and SOFTWARE can be exploited, hacked, or changed.  Your trust in Microsoft is misplaced.

I'm not surprised. The gaming communities flooded the poll. It's obviously not indicative of the actual market share each console will receive, much like some of the user ratings on Metacritic aren't indicative of all user opinions because they've been massively influenced.

 

Pretty sure the PS4 will still dominate the early sales period. If Microsoft has no solid reaction, it may well dominate the entire generation as well.

 

Yeah, what about the reports that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone TWO to ONE right now?

 

http://www.tapscape.com/ps4-outsells-xbox-amazon/

 

http://blog.games.com/2013/06/17/ps4-pre-orders-doubling-xbox-one-gamestop/

 

Still a bunch of 4Chan users skewing the polls?  I dont think so!

Grand Master

BajiRav

Posted
Posted

QUIT WITH THE F***ING STEAM COMPARISONS!  We are not comparing the new consoles to Steam, we are comparing to the previous gen consoles!  The Steam comparisons HAVE to be coming from Microsoft's "reputation managers", I see this comparison on EVERY comment thread discussing the XBone!  ENOUGH!

why not? :huh:  (if you can reply without exploding, *grabs protective gear*)

Grand Master

spenser.d

Posted
Posted

 

Yeah, what about the reports that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone TWO to ONE right now?

 

http://www.tapscape.com/ps4-outsells-xbox-amazon/

 

http://blog.games.com/2013/06/17/ps4-pre-orders-doubling-xbox-one-gamestop/

 

Still a bunch of 4Chan users skewing the polls?  I dont think so!

 

 

Yes.  If the Amazon poll was correct, the PS4 would be outselling the Xbox One 19 to 1.

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