PS4 grabs 95% of Consumer Votes after Amazon shuts poll down early

[spaceelf]

Seeing as they're sold out most places, how is it getting obliterated?

All I can say is I canned my preorder when they canned the new setup just now.  I still don't intend to get a PS4, but I did just get a PS3 for somethin different.

[Athernar]

It's mentioned here: http://www.howtogeek.com/117424/how-to-make-steams-offline-mode-work/ and I saw it before on one of the steam pages.

 

They weren't pointless restrictions, either. They were perfectly sensible if you thought of all games as digital downloads, with discs just being the "sneaker net" connectivity option to avoid the multi-GB download. I think Steam games work this exact same way. Heck, apparently they sometimes actually download the game anyway even though you have the disc!

 

Camera and microphone absolutely are mandatory on iPads, iPhones, and countless other devices you haven't complained about. So you still haven't answered the question about how those are different. I am unaware of any of those devices ever having their webcams or microphones hacked in the way you suggest (i.e. the device is asleep and someone remotely hijacks it and turns it on and starts spying on you). Asking for a statement that something is "not possible" is a cop-out. Lots of things are hypothetically "possible" but not practically so.

 

My quick skim of that article reveals nothing more than the blinding obvious, i.e. you have to wait for in-progress updates to finish before engaging offline mode. As I said, if you disable auto-updating that should be a non-issue.

 

They were very much pointless restrictions, the fact they've been nuked compounds this. Microsoft are/were fully capable of pursuing sharing features and etc on the digital side without enforcing restrictions on physical media. Really, I don't get why people have a hard time comprehending this. If you want the status quo, buy a disc - if you want next-gen, buy digitally. Everyone wins, everyone is happy.

 

Not only are the devices you mention portable (Stuff it in a drawer), but none of them make those components mandatory to the function of the device.

[BajiRav]

My quick skim of that article reveals nothing more than the blinding obvious, i.e. you have to wait for in-progress updates to finish before engaging offline mode. As I said, if you disable auto-updating that should be a non-issue.

 

They were very much pointless restrictions, the fact they've been nuked compounds this. Microsoft are/were fully capable of pursuing sharing features and etc on the digital side without enforcing restrictions on physical media. Really, I don't get why people have a hard time comprehending this. If you want the status quo, buy a disc - if you want next-gen, buy digitally. Everyone wins, everyone is happy.

 

Not only are the devices you mention portable (Stuff it in a drawer), but none of them make those components mandatory to the function of the device.

Is it too hard to understand that sharing would be possible by publishers getting a cut from used games sales? They don't get their cut and we don't get sharing. Simple.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

My quick skim of that article reveals nothing more than the blinding obvious, i.e. you have to wait for in-progress updates to finish before engaging offline mode. As I said, if you disable auto-updating that should be a non-issue.

 

They were very much pointless restrictions, the fact they've been nuked compounds this. Microsoft are/were fully capable of pursuing sharing features and etc on the digital side without enforcing restrictions on physical media. Really, I don't get why people have a hard time comprehending this. If you want the status quo, buy a disc - if you want next-gen, buy digitally. Everyone wins, everyone is happy.

 

Not only are the devices you mention portable (Stuff it in a drawer), but none of them make those components mandatory to the function of the device.

 

From the article: "These steps won?t help if games aren?t fully updated or there?s an update for Steam available."

 

Steam's website also says apps need to be up-to-date, though the other page I'd seen made it sound like it was just the Steam client. Could be it's changed a few times and some web pages are outdated.

 

It is obvious from today that they were not pointless restrictions. At the very least they were simplifying assumptions. There's a lot they didn't have to build in the world of discs as little more than download vouchers for a fully digital distribution system. Now they have to go build that, which is why they cut so many previously announced features to make it happen. Then there are the things they just can't do with this model without publishers being on board. For example, you now need the disc in the system to play games. That sucks. That is a huge loss for many of us today. I can't help but wonder if a small but vocal minority (and clickbaiting tech media, and Sony fanboys who won't buy it anyway) just ruined that for the majority of players. My Twitter and Facebook feeds are filled with people who are ###### about today's changes, with that being the most griped about one.

So yeah, thanks for that.

You can put your phone in a drawer but not your Kinect? What the hell kind of argument is that? Never mind that Xbox/Kinect doesn't have a battery, just unplug it if you're tinfoil-hat-paranoid. And a webcam + microphone are absolutely, 100% mandatory components on each of those devices I listed. You cannot remove them. You can disable them to exactly the same extent you can disable Kinect. Well, maybe less so, since you can't unplug it and the batteries on those aren't removable. You have no ground to stand on with this argument, why persist?

 

[Torolol]

actually it would be nice to have ability to point kinect to any other direction at ease you know like your smartphone camera?

perhaps somebody could make creative games, based on that "ability".

heck a portable kinect might be nice too, it can act like reporter' camera, good idea don't you think?

Instead of kinect watching me, I prefer if i can order the kinect to watch anything at MY direction.

[freak180]

Just wondering...did xbox one had this feature? or still do?

Koller: "The difference between an eight hour download and a 15-minute drive to retail?retail is winning that every time...Solving that with PlayGo... is a big win for the digital side of the business."

Well said..

"Some gamers will always prefer to get their games on disc. They like to hold a game in their hands. They like to feel as if they possess it and aren't just getting a license to some bits. As long as games are multiple Gigabytes and online connection speeds aren't fast enough to pipe those files through quickly, then discs will stick around. Safe assumption. Well, sorta safe."

 

 

 

This comment is a WIN!

 

As humans, we hate to be told to do something, but eventually we evolve to a point where we'll usually just start doing it anyway. PC makers worked really hard to ditch the 3.5" floppy, but until optical media and USB storage because cheaper and easier to use, it was a losing battle, because the 3.5" floppy stuck around for a long, long time.

Sony won big at E3 because they came out and said, "Hey, you know what, we have these options. We're the pioneers of Day One Digital on consoles for retail games, but we're not going to force that on you. We'll let you decide when it's right for you." while MS came out and said, "Hey, do this, and if you don't want to, buy an XBox 360, we ran the numbers and we'll be fine without you."

So far the majority of people seem to not like being told what to do

[BajiRav]

Just wondering...did xbox one had this feature? or still do?

Koller: "The difference between an eight hour download and a 15-minute drive to retail?retail is winning that every time...Solving that with PlayGo... is a big win for the digital side of the business."

Well said..

"Some gamers will always prefer to get their games on disc. They like to hold a game in their hands. They like to feel as if they possess it and aren't just getting a license to some bits. As long as games are multiple Gigabytes and online connection speeds aren't fast enough to pipe those files through quickly, then discs will stick around. Safe assumption. Well, sorta safe."

 

 

 

This comment is a WIN!

 

As humans, we hate to be told to do something, but eventually we evolve to a point where we'll usually just start doing it anyway. PC makers worked really hard to ditch the 3.5" floppy, but until optical media and USB storage because cheaper and easier to use, it was a losing battle, because the 3.5" floppy stuck around for a long, long time.

Sony won big at E3 because they came out and said, "Hey, you know what, we have these options. We're the pioneers of Day One Digital on consoles for retail games, but we're not going to force that on you. We'll let you decide when it's right for you." while MS came out and said, "Hey, do this, and if you don't want to, buy an XBox 360, we ran the numbers and we'll be fine without you."

So far the majority of people seem to not like being told what to do

What? That quote is stupid. Microsoft's problem wasn't that they were forcing everyone to download games. That is just...ignorant comment.

[freak180]

What? That quote is stupid. Microsoft's problem wasn't that they were forcing everyone to download games. That is just...ignorant comment.

I already know that but look at this in a different perspective. That's how most people felt even if that wasn't the case.

[Athernar]

Is it too hard to understand that sharing would be possible by publishers getting a cut from used games sales? They don't get their cut and we don't get sharing. Simple.

 

Engage brain please. There is nothing stopping sharing from being applied to DD-based releases. If Valve can do it with Steam in a matter of weeks, so can Microsoft.

 

From the article: "These steps won?t help if games aren?t fully updated or there?s an update for Steam available."

 

Steam's website also says apps need to be up-to-date, though the other page I'd seen made it sound like it was just the Steam client. Could be it's changed a few times and some web pages are outdated.

 

It is obvious from today that they were not pointless restrictions. At the very least they were simplifying assumptions. There's a lot they didn't have to build in the world of discs as little more than download vouchers for a fully digital distribution system. Now they have to go build that, which is why they cut so many previously announced features to make it happen. Then there are the things they just can't do with this model without publishers being on board. For example, you now need the disc in the system to play games. That sucks. That is a huge loss for many of us today. I can't help but wonder if a small but vocal minority (and clickbaiting tech media, and Sony fanboys who won't buy it anyway) just ruined that for the majority of players. My Twitter and Facebook feeds are filled with people who are ****ed about today's changes, with that being the most griped about one.

So yeah, thanks for that.

You can put your phone in a drawer but not your Kinect? What the hell kind of argument is that? Never mind that Xbox/Kinect doesn't have a battery, just unplug it if you're tinfoil-hat-paranoid. And a webcam + microphone are absolutely, 100% mandatory components on each of those devices I listed. You cannot remove them. You can disable them to exactly the same extent you can disable Kinect. Well, maybe less so, since you can't unplug it and the batteries on those aren't removable. You have no ground to stand on with this argument, why persist?

 

This is like talking to a brick wall. It's fairly clear if you actually read the articles that what is being referred to is games that are currently in the process of being updated. I.e. games that have already received an update notification and are in the process of downloading the update. As I've said twice now, if you disable auto-updating on the relevant games that check will not be made.

 

The reality of what has happened is really quite simple, physical media retains the status quo and the next-gen stuff moves to the next-gen distribution method. Honestly, you and others keep whining about things not being "next-gen" anymore and yet you seem to have an odd obsession with the decidedly last-gen method of getting games. Buy digitally and stop buying discs.

 

And really now, blaming anyone but Microsoft for taking this move is pathetic. It was entirely their decision to make, and entirely their "fault" for making it.

 

And unplug it? How can you unplug it when the One makes it mandatory? That's the whole point.

[BajiRav]

Engage brain please. There is nothing stopping sharing from being applied to DD-based releases. If Valve can do it with Steam in a matter of weeks, so can Microsoft.

 

 

This is like talking to a brick wall. It's fairly clear if you actually read the articles that what is being referred to is games that are currently in the process of being updated. I.e. games that have already received an update notification and are in the process of downloading the update. As I've said twice now, if you disable auto-updating on the relevant games that check will not be made.

 

The reality of what has happened is really quite simple, physical media retains the status quo and the next-gen stuff moves to the next-gen distribution method. Honestly, you and others keep whining about things not being "next-gen" anymore and yet you seem to have an odd obsession with the decidedly last-gen method of getting games. Buy digitally and stop buying discs.

 

And really now, blaming anyone but Microsoft for taking this move is pathetic. It was entirely their decision to make, and entirely their "fault" for making it.

 

And unplug it? How can you unplug it when the One makes it mandatory? That's the whole point.

Let's engage our brains. When was the last time you were able to sell a game bought on Steam? It's not a technology problem.

[Athernar]

Let's engage our brains. When was the last time you were able to sell a game bought on Steam? It's not a technology problem.

 

No resale and controlled resale are two different approaches that both solve the same "problem", either one works for publishers/developers.

 

Valve are implementing game sharing on Steam, so why can't Microsoft?

[Brandon Live Veteran]

If Valve can do it with Steam in a matter of weeks, so can Microsoft.

 

Umm, what? That isn't how anything works in the world, anywhere. Never mind that Steam doesn't have game sharing and has announced no plans to do anything of the sort. Yeah, they can have a rumor in a matter of weeks. That's helpful.

[slapfacemcdougal]

Umm, what? That isn't how anything works in the world, anywhere. Never mind that Steam doesn't have game sharing and has announced no plans to do anything of the sort. Yeah, they can have a rumor in a matter of weeks. That's helpful.

 

They don't have to announce it when it's in their code.

 

http://hexus.net/gaming/news/industry/57013-steam-game-sharing-features-spotted-beta-code/

[Athernar]

Umm, what? That isn't how anything works in the world, anywhere. Never mind that Steam doesn't have game sharing and has announced no plans to do anything of the sort. Yeah, they can have a rumor in a matter of weeks. That's helpful.

 

Are you telling me a multi-billion dollar megacorporation with far more developer time cannot crank out such a feature they originally announced in less time than their semi-competitor that got the idea from them in the first place? I understand that Microsoft is fraught with freeloading managers and corporate bureaucracy, but really now. 

 

I'm not sure where you've been reading your news, but the Steam implementation isn't a rumour, there are localisation strings that you yourself can verify in the Steam client beta under Public\steamui_english.txt, search for "SteamUI_JoinDialog_SharedLicense".

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Are you telling me a multi-billion dollar megacorporation with far more developer time cannot crank out such a feature they originally announced in less time than their semi-competitor that got the idea from them in the first place? I understand that Microsoft is fraught with freeloading managers and corporate bureaucracy, but really now. 

 

I'm not sure where you've been reading your news, but the Steam implementation isn't a rumour, there are localisation strings that you yourself can verify in the Steam client beta under Public\steamui_english.txt, search for "SteamUI_JoinDialog_SharedLicense".

 

Sigh...

1) A string showing up in code doesn't mean it's ready for primetime or will be any time soon. Or ever will see the light of day.

2) You don't know how long they've been working on that. I find it highly unlikely they jammed it in there between the Xbox announcement and today. These things don't work that way in our industry.

3) The Xbox schedule is apparently super tight already. They don't even have time to have the software ready to be imaged on the machines, so they're requiring a day zero update before you can use the thing. Even then, they likely need to have the final launch day build signed off pretty darn soon, and the whole enable-disc-based-DRM thing is already a way complicated and risky DCR to take at this point in my estimation. It's not just about how long it takes to the write the code. It's also about risk, test resources, and revising the spec to fit into a drastically changed licensing/distribution model.

 

More likely, they punted those features to their next release. If it's anything like the 360, that could mean 6 months later. Or not, because they might change their update cadence. Nobody outside their team knows. Maybe they'll never do it. But it's ridiculous to say "Valve can do it in a few weeks" when they haven't done anything and when/if they do it won't be three weeks and probably won't be the same thing and probably was on Valve's schedule for a while (or at the very least, they didn't already have a fully booked schedule shipping a new console!).

[Athernar]

Sigh...

1) A string showing up in code doesn't mean it's ready for primetime or will be any time soon. Or ever will see the light of day.

2) You don't know how long they've been working on that. I find it highly unlikely they jammed it in there between the Xbox announcement and today. These things don't work that way in our industry.

3) The Xbox schedule is apparently super tight already. They don't even have time to have the software ready to be imaged on the machines, so they're requiring a day zero update before you can use the thing. Even then, they likely need to have the final launch day build signed off pretty darn soon, and the whole enable-disc-based-DRM thing is already a way complicated and risky DCR to take at this point in my estimation.

 

More likely, they punted those features to their next release. If it's anything like the 360, that could mean 6 months later. Or not, because they might change their update cadence. Nobody outside their team knows. Maybe they'll never do it. But it's ridiculous to say "Valve can do it in a few weeks" when they haven't done anything and when/if they do it won't be three weeks and probably won't be the same thing and probably was on Valve's schedule for a while (or at the very least, they didn't already have a fully booked schedule shipping a new console!).

 

Did I ever say it was ready? No. The simple fact is it's there, it's being worked on, and it's not a rumour.

 

As for point 2, seeing as the strings only now turned up indicates it's a recent development - in line with how Valve does things. Take a gander at Dota 2 and Cyborgmatt's blog for reference.

 

I fully understand the schedule will inevitably be tight, (and it is for both companies) but this is not a new or additional feature we're talking about here, it's one that was already planned. All that has changed is it won't work with disc-based copies anymore.

[Brandon Live Veteran]

Did I ever say it was ready? No. The simple fact is it's there, it's being worked on, and it's not a rumour.

 

As for point 2, seeing as the strings only now turned up indicates it's a recent development - in line with how Valve does things. Take a gander at Dota 2 and Cyborgmatt's blog for reference.

 

I fully understand the schedule will inevitably be tight, (and it is for both companies) but this is not a new or additional feature we're talking about here, it's one that was already planned. All that has changed is it won't work with disc-based copies anymore.

 

But as I've already said, enabling disc-based DRM (which requires disc-based OS updates and other things they didn't need before) is probably an even larger feature. Given a fixed schedule and fixed resources, that means other things had to be cut.

 

And you did say it was ready. You said Valve "did it" (i.e. completed it) in "a few weeks." It is not done, and when it is done it won't have been done in a few weeks.

[Noir Angel]

I don't pay ?60 per game on Steam so it's lack of a game sharing feature doesn't concern me. If console game vendors got more realistic about their pricing perhaps the used games market wouldn't be such a big issue.

[pickytech]

I'm sure the Xbox will sell but Microsoft definitely has a PR problem here.

Fixed that for you.

[Athernar]

But as I've already said, enabling disc-based DRM (which requires disc-based OS updates and other things they didn't need before) is probably an even larger feature. Given a fixed schedule and fixed resources, that means other things had to be cut.

 

And you did say it was ready. You said Valve "did it" (i.e. completed it) in "a few weeks." It is not done, and when it is done it won't have been done in a few weeks.

 

What? I'm not talking about discs. I'm talking about digital copies. The disc related DRM is what enabled the sharing of disc copies on a business level, but none of that is needed on the digital side.

 

Completion and ready are two different things, nor does this line of discussion address the greater point - this feature was already planned and in development. To repeat myself again, all that has fundamentally changed is disc based copies can no longer be included.

[Hardcore Til I Die]

I'm in the 5% I guess - much prefer Xbox titles to PS ones. I need my Halo! 

 

Although if Final Fantasy is only coming to the PS4 as I've heard, I'll probably end up with both. 

[slapfacemcdougal]

 

 

Although if Final Fantasy is only coming to the PS4 as I've heard, I'll probably end up with both. 

 

It's not. Neither is Kingdom Hearts.

[Emn1ty]

My quick skim of that article reveals nothing more than the blinding obvious, i.e. you have to wait for in-progress updates to finish before engaging offline mode. As I said, if you disable auto-updating that should be a non-issue.

 

They were very much pointless restrictions, the fact they've been nuked compounds this. Microsoft are/were fully capable of pursuing sharing features and etc on the digital side without enforcing restrictions on physical media. Really, I don't get why people have a hard time comprehending this. If you want the status quo, buy a disc - if you want next-gen, buy digitally. Everyone wins, everyone is happy.

 

Not only are the devices you mention portable (Stuff it in a drawer), but none of them make those components mandatory to the function of the device.

Even Steam doesn't do that. No digital service does that. If I buy a copy of Mass Effect 3, I pretty much have to register it through Origin, and when I do the disc becomes useless. Same with BF3 and a number of other games on Steam.

I cannot understand why people are so ready to dismiss Steam as a comparison just because it gives sales. They are willing to die for it as a platform just becuase it sold you games at a 75% discount. Cause that makes it ok, right? Oh, and only Steam can ever give you sales, other digital services can't (Origin with it's 50% - 75% off sales that nobody talks about).

[Athernar]

Even Steam doesn't do that. No digital service does that. If I buy a copy of Mass Effect 3, I pretty much have to register it through Origin, and when I do the disc becomes useless. Same with BF3 and a number of other games on Steam.

I cannot understand why people are so ready to dismiss Steam as a comparison just because it gives sales. They are willing to die for it as a platform just becuase it sold you games at a 75% discount. Cause that makes it ok, right? Oh, and only Steam can ever give you sales, other digital services can't (Origin with it's 50% - 75% off sales that nobody talks about).

 

Whatever nonsense you're rambling on about isn't relevant to the point I was making.

 

Microsoft are perfectly capable of continuing to pursue their sharing plans on titles acquired digitally, all that has changed is physically acquired titles will maintain the status quo.

 

If Microsoft are smart, they will use the advantages of digital distribution to add value to titles acquired via that method (luring in customers from the latter), and let ye olde physical media slowly sail off into retirement.

[Graimer]

There's a difference between being able to do something and do something.

 

If MS adds the family sharing etc. for digitally bought games(which I hope), they can easily get bad PR just like they did with DRM and that's probably why they removed it.

You need to remember that PEOPLE ARE STUPID. If some rules like family sharing were available, they would certainly focus on it in their advertising. No matter how many disclaimer lines etc. you have in an advertisement, Averge Joe would not read it and MS would get complaints and bad PR because people bought a physical game and it didn't work as they'd expected.

 

That's what happend with the drm and family sharing etc. People got confused by all the rules, so MS removed it to keep everything simple. By adding the family sharing etc. back for digital only, things would get complicated again...