DRM is the killer feature

[ahhell]

yeah I agree. I don't want to pay for it if I don't know what I'm getting into. I think the main problem is that Microsoft doesn't know how to handle questions or they probably dont know what's going on internally.

The console is still almost 6 months out.  There is plenty of time for MS to get it's ducks in a row.  There's been speculation that some of the family sharing stuff is a pretty recent addition.  That would explain why information has been inconsistent.

[George P Global Moderator]

Why would MS close the authentication servers?  Those are part of Xbox Live, are people thinking MS is going to close Xbox Live down now?    You know what will happen, MS releases a new Xbox in another 7-8 years from now and your Live account just keeps working on it and your licenses keep working and so on.  And yes I doubt they're going to change hardware architecture yet again for the Xbox 4 8 years from now.  It'll still be x86, probably with 12 or however many cores are fancy enough for a CPU to have by then, with yet another GPU that's running whatever the newest DX version is by then and so on.  Then we finally get our backwards compatibility back and at the same time we can redownload all those games we have licenses to linked to our accounts from our Xbox One console.  Xbox Live keeps going like nothing's changed and all's well.

 

Do any of you wonder if Valve is going to close it's Steam servers 10 years from now and not allow you to have access to all those games you've been buying till then?   I doubt you have, not since Steam probably first started has that even come up. 

[Crimson Rain]

To end user the end result is the same,

but for publisher view it differently, they insist that "License(s)" must not be transferable nor lend able.

 

Surely you forgot how MS said Office 2013 license is not transferable?

only the backlash made it change decision to allow transfering license once every 90 days?

 

and XBox One DRM said, the game license can only transfered ONCE,

so if you recieves license of a game from someone else, you can't transfer that licence to another,

MS DRM getting worse, don't you think?

 

MS need to change their decision about the XBox One DRM.

 

Giving away and sharing are different things; two different features.

 

Both are entirely new in digital game license/delivery system.

 

The benefits of sharing far outweigh the restriction of one time giving away (transfer). Hell...because of sharing, you wont need to give away most of the times.

[srbeen]

The Publishers will have the final say whether the game will be sellable or not regardless of what console you purchase the product on. They could just implement some DRM scheme into the game. Also there was an interview with MajorNelson and he stated that if players were to be banned from the console, all our purchased items would still work. As for the Servers shutting down, yah i did not like how he dodged around that question, but i am sure they could just send an update that would remove all licensing restrictions if they chose to retire the service and no longer would force activation checks.

Now in order for the Family sharing for it to work the way they mentioned, then yes some form of DRM is required, however i don't think it needs to be as restrictive as the way they have it.

 

 

Yes, all purchased items.. but I wanna buy more games/maps/dlc/arcade stuff.. so, what there?

Why would MS close the authentication servers?  Those are part of Xbox Live, are people thinking MS is going to close Xbox Live down now?    You know what will happen, MS releases a new Xbox in another 7-8 years from now and your Live account just keeps working on it and your licenses keep working and so on.  And yes I doubt they're going to change hardware architecture yet again for the Xbox 4 8 years from now.  It'll still be x86, probably with 12 or however many cores are fancy enough for a CPU to have by then, with yet another GPU that's running whatever the newest DX version is by then and so on.  Then we finally get our backwards compatibility back and at the same time we can redownload all those games we have licenses to linked to our accounts from our Xbox One console.  Xbox Live keeps going like nothing's changed and all's well.

 

Do any of you wonder if Valve is going to close it's Steam servers 10 years from now and not allow you to have access to all those games you've been buying till then?   I doubt you have, not since Steam probably first started has that even come up. 

IIRC when the xbox 360 launched the xbox live servers for the original console were 'shut down' within a year, possibly 2 - because you could 'use the 360 for your xbox games'

[George P Global Moderator]

Yes, all purchased items.. but I wanna buy more games/maps/dlc/arcade stuff.. so, what there?

IIRC when the xbox 360 launched the xbox live servers for the original console were 'shut down' within a year, possibly 2 - because you could 'use the 360 for your xbox games'

Didn't that just mean the original MP game servers?  As far as the security checking goes that's part of Live itself, Live is still going and is still going to be used on the next Xbox after the Xbox One. 

[FlintyV]

Yes, all purchased items.. but I wanna buy more games/maps/dlc/arcade stuff.. so, what there?

IIRC when the xbox 360 launched the xbox live servers for the original console were 'shut down' within a year, possibly 2 - because you could 'use the 360 for your xbox games'

 

 

Xbox Live support for the original Xbox was shutdown in April 2010.

 

http://majornelson.com/2010/02/05/xbox-live-being-discontinued-for-original-xbox-consoles-and-games/

[threetonesun]

Do any of you wonder if Valve is going to close it's Steam servers 10 years from now and not allow you to have access to all those games you've been buying till then?   I doubt you have, not since Steam probably first started has that even come up. 

This concern comes up fairly often. IIRC Gabe has stated that there's some secret last-resort option if Valve actually folded that would give you access to all of your games, but no one knows for sure.

 

Plus, it wasn't really an issue when Steam started since, for the most part, you could still buy disc versions of the games and then just unlock them on Steam.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Some MS employees were talking about a subscription service as well, where you'd never even own your games.

[George P Global Moderator]

This concern comes up fairly often. IIRC Gabe has stated that there's some secret last-resort option if Valve actually folded that would give you access to all of your games, but no one knows for sure.

 

Plus, it wasn't really an issue when Steam started since, for the most part, you could still buy disc versions of the games and then just unlock them on Steam.

 

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Some MS employees were talking about a subscription service as well, where you'd never even own your games.

 

Depending on the subscription model it could be like just renting at gamefly or redbox.  If the price is right then it could be a nice option to have.  I'd like to be able, say as a Gold member, "rent" games digitally.   I very very rarely replay games I own and a number of others have said that they're big on renting games.  

 

I'm sure if Valve did go belly up then they'd flip a license switch that said you can go in and red/l everyone one last time and keep a local copy without DRM on it etc. 

[JaredFrost]

anyone who's not a MS fanboy will just get the alternative that doesnt make you jump through hoops to play your games. Anyway you look at it, the PS4 is the better buy.

 

I somewhat disagree and agree, I was completely an MS and xbox fan, 100%, I'm just not blindly a fan, but recent design/policies the company has put forth(ad filled dashboard on a paid gold sub, Windows 8 Modern UI, etc) now Xbox One have changed my mind and I wont be purchasing these products, my main beef is with the 24h check-in(basically no offline), no offline to me means this product will have a limited product lifetime, at some point they will drop support MS always do, and to a lesser degree but still an issue for me is having to have the Kinect connected and always listening for Xbox On.

 

So on that note, if MS doesn't reverse this at some point, I will never be getting an Xbox One, and in turn none of the games or services they make money on

I guess I'll save for that house I always wanted to own.

[JaredFrost]

Why would MS close the authentication servers?  Those are part of Xbox Live, are people thinking MS is going to close Xbox Live down now?    You know what will happen, MS releases a new Xbox in another 7-8 years from now and your Live account just keeps working on it and your licenses keep working and so on.

I'll just put this right here.

And this is all within the Xbox 360 lifetime, these titles are gone from the servers, what are they? games? DLC? pictures? themes? who knows

My download history has 30+ of these in there, MS has a history on dropping support and killing things completely in the long term, so we should

for no reason think Xbox One and games will be any different.

 

Another issue I am having is with their regional restrictions, I recently moved from North America to New Zealand, and while it allowed me to

queue/purchase games from Games on Demand on XBL, it wouldn't allow me to download them, it would get to 70-90% and fail, I had to change

my account region to NZ, which in itself isn't a problem, but some of my purchased GoD I can't even download at all now, due to regional restrictions

Some are even silly, the same games are available here, and on GoD, it just wont download till I purchase again, which it wont allow me to do because

I already purchased it.

[kaotic]

http://kotaku.com/sony-actually-has-a-very-different-future-in-mind-for-p-514144920

 

Not sure if you guys saw this today. Sony will probably move toward similar drm in the future.

 

Yoshida: "The things we want to see change [is to have] more people embrace the digital side and have more people connect."

[BajiRav]

Those buying PS4 should be worried that Sony might cease to exist in an year's time from now given their poor financial state of recent. Whoever ends up buying their asset will close down PS4 and PSN for good.

No warranty support, no PSN. Nothing.

 

Think. About. it.

 

 

Yes, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? So does you for thinking that Microsoft/Xbox will just disappear down the line.

[JaredFrost]

Those buying PS4 should be worried that Sony might cease to exist in an year's time from now given their poor financial state of recent. Whoever ends up buying their asset will close down PS4 and PSN for good.

No warranty support, no PSN. Nothing.

 

Think. About. it.

 

 

Yes, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? So does you for thinking that Microsoft/Xbox will just disappear down the line.

 

And if they did, those games will work offline, now wont they.

 

Think. About. It.

[srbeen]

Those buying PS4 should be worried that Sony might cease to exist in an year's time from now given their poor financial state of recent. Whoever ends up buying their asset will close down PS4 and PSN for good.

No warranty support, no PSN. Nothing.

 

Think. About. it.

 

 

Yes, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? So does you for thinking that Microsoft/Xbox will just disappear down the line.

 

The only thing I can think of relatively close to this business model is a home security system which requires a telephone line to call the security center.. Theres few and far between products which exist and rely on another product provided by various vendors to remain functional. This is where people with a PS4 wouldn't care - as even if sony vanishes everything they have in their library will work indefinitely.

 

There will be a first though; It will be the first time a modchip is required in a console to play your legitimate games, as well as backup games.

[BajiRav]

And if they did, those games will work offline, now wont they.

 

Think. About. It.

Whooooooooosh....

[JaredFrost]

Whooooooooosh....

 

At least you heard it going over your head, so there is hope you'll understand someday.

[Torolol]

You're still purchasing a right to use license.

yes, since its a "Purchase", it should fall into First hand Sales doctrine,

 

Which you should able to do anything about the "License":

- Renting it to somebody else (that somebody else have temporary rights to use the license while you're not, at specified duration)

- Gifting/Trade it to somebody else (you gave your rights to use the license to somebody else, with or without any compensation from that somebody else)

 

Those actions that guaranteed by 1st Hand Sales Doctrine, and was already possible when the license was tied to physical media,

and it should be possible even the license was tied to your account, after all it just matter of modifying digital data in some distant clouds.

 

 

So, what should you do?

 

I would suggest to contact lawyers that uphold the 1st hand sales doctrine,

Find as many people who agree with this, to raise the funds that will be used for passing required legislation about this "License",

and if this was approved by courts it will have effect to nullify the artificial limitation that imposed by publisher toward this "License".

 

From purchasing perspective, 'Software/Game license' are considered as 'virtual goods'.

[compl3x]

The family sharing may not be for everyone but until we know the details of its limitations you cant just write it off as a feature. 

 

Yeah, and you can't talk about it has being the best feature in the history of consoles, either.

 

 

Those buying PS4 should be worried that Sony might cease to exist in an year's time from now given their poor financial state of recent. Whoever ends up buying their asset will close down PS4 and PSN for good.

No warranty support, no PSN. Nothing.

 

Think. About. it.

 

 

Yes, it sounds stupid, doesn't it? So does you for thinking that Microsoft/Xbox will just disappear down the line.

 

 

FUD!!!! FUD!!!! FUD!!!!! FUD!!!!! FUD!!!!! 

[George P Global Moderator]

I'll just put this right here.

And this is all within the Xbox 360 lifetime, these titles are gone from the servers, what are they? games? DLC? pictures? themes? who knows

My download history has 30+ of these in there, MS has a history on dropping support and killing things completely in the long term, so we should

for no reason think Xbox One and games will be any different.

 

Another issue I am having is with their regional restrictions, I recently moved from North America to New Zealand, and while it allowed me to

queue/purchase games from Games on Demand on XBL, it wouldn't allow me to download them, it would get to 70-90% and fail, I had to change

my account region to NZ, which in itself isn't a problem, but some of my purchased GoD I can't even download at all now, due to regional restrictions

Some are even silly, the same games are available here, and on GoD, it just wont download till I purchase again, which it wont allow me to do because

I already purchased it.

 

 

Without knowing what those are then it's hard to say, but how much of that is due to a 3rd party developer dropping support for something?   Say some of those are games,  why would it be MS pulling the content off the servers and not the people who made it in the first place?   It's like with any digital store, you pay to put stuff on there, if you stop paying then they have no reason to keep it up, it'll be removed.  

 

That's still a bit different though, I'm talking about this fear that the game authentication servers will go down and you can't play games you already have installed on your system either digitally or via a disc you own.  I just don't see why that would ever be the case?

 

As for the region issue, it's a pain, yet it's also one that's shared with, i'd say every, digital store out there.  Some content can't be accessed if you change regions, I believe this applies to steam as well on the PC because I remember friends who travel often saying they can't access their stuff until they set their region back to the one it was that matches with their steam account etc.   It's a pain but we're looking at the minority, still, would be nice to not have to worry about that after you've already bought something.

[slapfacemcdougal]

You know that xbox fans have gone into damage control when "DRM" is their killer feature XD

[spenser.d]

You know that xbox fans have gone into damage control when "DRM" is their killer feature XD

Could say the same about PS4 fans for continuing to spear fud and rumors. Nobody is doing damage control. Some people just don't get stuck up on DRM.

[MikeChipshop Member]

And if they did, those games will work offline, now wont they.

 

Think. About. It.

 

Oh dear. You really missed the point didn't you?

[Graimer]

And if they did, those games will work offline, now wont they.

 

Think. About. It.

 

Oh ffs. So would the Xbox One games! They haven't said that it won't, so why would everyone start worrying about a possibility that's 0.001% likely to happend.

What Major Nelson have said however, is that EVEN when your account is banned, you'll have access to your games. Xbox Live will STILL work with 360 as it will coexist with Xbox One(more long-term then the original xbox which had a completely different live-system). So the servers aren't going away, and IF they do in .... 20 years, the games will be so old that they would just unlock the system with an update before closing them down so you could play offline.

 

If they aren't going to take away your games when your Xbox Live account gets banned, they're not doing it IF they ever give up on Xbox and turn off the servers. Simply disabling the servers because a new console is out will not happend because they will get so bad PR and sued up their a** and lose future customers if they do. What you should really worry about is what happends if someone suddenly disables Internet so you can't get that future offline-update or complain on the forums.. /s

 

 

I somewhat disagree and agree, I was completely an MS and xbox fan, 100%, I'm just not blindly a fan, but recent design/policies the company has put forth(ad filled dashboard on a paid gold sub, Windows 8 Modern UI, etc) now Xbox One have changed my mind and I wont be purchasing these products, my main beef is with the 24h check-in(basically no offline), no offline to me means this product will have a limited product lifetime, at some point they will drop support MS always do, and to a lesser degree but still an issue for me is having to have the Kinect connected and always listening for Xbox On.

 

So on that note, if MS doesn't reverse this at some point, I will never be getting an Xbox One, and in turn none of the games or services they make money on

I guess I'll save for that house I always wanted to own.

 

You know you can turn that off, right? They've confirmed that.

[jerzdawg]

So by saying that sharing games with friends is a great feature I am talking about it as "being the best feature in the history of consoles"

Look I think everyone gets its - you, darkfiber, ab, and a few others are in love with your sony consoles, nothing that MS is going to do will be good enough (until sony does it).  yogurt, bajiravi, spencer, and a few others love the 360 and eventually the xbox one. 

what exactly does bashing a feature you know nothing about do for you?  does it make you feel better?  your life more whole?  I really do wish I understood the mentality of some of you.  its a god damn gaming console, built to make companies money and to provide entertainment to the consumer.  as long as your money is going to the console that is going to provide the most amount of entertainment why do you even give a ****.  I know this is a forum and blah blah blah but I would just love to know what makes a f-boy tick.. I know come this fall/winter I will have an xbox and ps4 connected to my receiver ready to play any console exclusives.  Its one thing to regret a purchase AFTER the fact (... my wii u for example)... but to run your mouth against the PS4/Xbox one before you even held a god damn controller in your hand it insane.

 

rant over.

 

 

 

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

So by saying that sharing games with friends is a great feature I am talking about it as "being the best feature in the history of consoles"

Look I think everyone gets its - you, darkfiber, ab, and a few others are in love with your sony consoles, nothing that MS is going to do will be good enough (until sony does it).  yogurt, bajiravi, spencer, and a few others love the 360 and eventually the xbox one. 

what exactly does bashing a feature you know nothing about do for you?  does it make you feel better?  your life more whole?  I really do wish I understood the mentality of some of you.  its a god damn gaming console, built to make companies money and to provide entertainment to the consumer.  as long as your money is going to the console that is going to provide the most amount of entertainment why do you even give a ****.  I know this is a forum and blah blah blah but I would just love to know what makes a f-boy tick.. I know come this fall/winter I will have an xbox and ps4 connected to my receiver ready to play any console exclusives.  Its one thing to regret a purchase AFTER the fact (... my wii u for example)... but to run your mouth against the PS4/Xbox one before you even held a god damn controller in your hand it insane.

 

rant over.

 

I think you might find Darkfiber is a huge MS fan. And FTR, if Sony done DRM like this, it would not be good for me.

 

Also we do know a little, two people can play the SP portion of a game at once, only one person can play the MP of a game at a time.