PlayStation 4 gives up to 5.5GB of RAM to game developers

[Yogurtmaster]

Yes, we get it, you're pro-microsoft yogurt.

 

  No, I am pro-truth.   So, you don't get it.

[Yogurtmaster]

With all this RAM dedicated to the OS, I hope the guide menu in the Xbox will be fluid. Using the guide while playing a demanding game turned it into a horrible jerky mess which took forever to load.

 

Well if it isn't then there is something seriously wrong.   The Xbox 360 OS is a clunky mess to begin with.  The OS has to load back in when you exit a game and it doesn't have a lot of memory with apps and even the apps had to be pulled out of memory.  Notice how long it took just to load in Netflix or Hulu?

 

So, going from 512 to 3 Gigs of memory, there should be no problem there.  I would expect the Microsoft OS to be the fastest OS out of all the consoles.

 

Basically, from my understanding there is really only two Operating Systems.  The Xbox One OS and the Windows 8 Kernel OS part.  The other one is a hypervisor that allows the two OSes to run as a Virtual Machine.   So, they are isolated machines, but they can communicate securely to each other through the hypervisor.

 

So, two virtual machines running on an x64 AMD processor (which is Intel compatible of course) and then it uses the Hypervisor to control the two virtual machines and communicate with both machines.

 

Microsoft is using Hypervisors and Virtual Machines on both their "Servers" and "Clients" which is the first time this has been done in a video game console environment.   As far as I know, Sony isn't doing this.

[HawkMan]

The rumors are also that MS while the games are guaranteed 5 gigs, the OS is merely guaranteed access to 3. It's means the 3 aren't reserved, but tagged(think of super fetch in vista/7/8) and games can use at least part of these 3 when available, but the OS/Apps can overwrite if for their use whenever they need it.

MS has the experience for this and it's already used in every windows OS with NT inside at least in primitive to to more advanced forms as it evolved. But I guess we'll see. Most likely for both platforms, game debs will avoid non guaranteed/reserved memory completely, and that might include the flexible/virtual ram which makes no sense.

[vcfan]

The rumors are also that MS while the games are guaranteed 5 gigs, the OS is merely guaranteed access to 3. It's means the 3 aren't reserved, but tagged(think of super fetch in vista/7/8) and games can use at least part of these 3 when available, but the OS/Apps can overwrite if for their use whenever they need it.

MS has the experience for this and it's already used in every windows OS with NT inside at least in primitive to to more advanced forms as it evolved. But I guess we'll see. Most likely for both platforms, game debs will avoid non guaranteed/reserved memory completely, and that might include the flexible/virtual ram which makes no sense.

 

hyper-v has dynamic memory,so it can reallocate unused memory. so say a virtual machine has 3 gb allocated,and no longer need 2gb of that,hyper v can reclaim this memory and reallocate it.

[threetonesun]

If you care about how much memory your console uses, just buy a PC.  :laugh:

 

The XBox and the PS4 will play games, probably a lot of the same games, probably with exactly the same quality. 

[Tha Bloo Monkee]

Considering how most of Neowin does not develop games I don't know why everyone seems so focused on 4.5gb vs 5gb or whatever, it's not significant either way and I would imagine most of the games coming out when the new console comes out won't even use the maximum amount.

PS3 had 256mb ram and look what the PS3 is capable of alone, this is a significant upgrade.  I can't wait to see what the PS4 has for us.

[GotBored]

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-system-software-memory

 

It's Now been confirmed.  5 Gigabytes of Ram for games total and 3 for the OS and other functions.  Sony confirmed this.

 

UPDATE #2: Sony has issued a statement:

 

The actual true distinction is that:

• "Direct Memory" is memory allocated under the traditional video game model, so the game controls all aspects of its allocation
• "Flexible Memory" is memory managed by the PS4 OS on the game's behalf, and allows games to use some very nice FreeBSD virtual memory functionality. However this memory is 100 per cent the game's memory, and is never used by the OS, and as it is the game's memory it should be easy for every developer to use it.

We have no comment to make on the amount of memory reserved by the system or what it is used for.

 

Sony made a statement to distinguish the difference between Direct and Flexible memory, they didn't confirm the RAM allocation.

I have highlighted a line in your quote which also should have directed you to this conclusion.

 

I can't believe how some people are so gullible.  Sony confirms 5 for game development and the rest for OS functions but they won't tell anyone specifically what it's used for and some people hear 6 from a rumor so they automatically assume 6 because of a Sony developer or whomever and that is what they go with.

 

They believe what they want to believe and the funny thing is that they have been manipulated by "Damage Control"

 

Sony is all about propaganda, damage control and marketing to try to get people to buy their consoles and it's all working.   Yes, I am taking notes for my own business.

 

Yes like believing that the Competitor made a statement which supports your bias when it was as clear as black and white they didn't?

 

  No, I am pro-truth.   So, you don't get it.

 

For somonee who is pro-truth you sure make up a lot of stuff and post a lot of strongly biased comments.

 

Basically, from my understanding there is really only two Operating Systems.  The Xbox One OS and the Windows 8 Kernel OS part.  The other one is a hypervisor that allows the two OSes to run as a Virtual Machine.   So, they are isolated machines, but they can communicate securely to each other through the hypervisor.

 

So, two virtual machines running on an x64 AMD processor (which is Intel compatible of course) and then it uses the Hypervisor to control the two virtual machines and communicate with both machines.

 

Microsoft is using Hypervisors and Virtual Machines on both their "Servers" and "Clients" which is the first time this has been done in a video game console environment.   As far as I know, Sony isn't doing this.

 

The Xbox CPU is a x86 and the hyperv is a requirement because they wanted more than one OS its not something special or an awesome new feature as you seem to be selling it.

[Blackhearted]

If you care about how much memory your console uses, just buy a PC.  :laugh:

 

The XBox and the PS4 will play games, probably a lot of the same games, probably with exactly the same quality. 

 

Maybe for the first year or so. Then it'll once again become like it's been for the past several years.

[BajiRav]

The Xbox CPU is a x86 and the hyperv is a requirement because they wanted more than one OS its not something special or an awesome new feature as you seem to be selling it.

Somebody should tell Microsoft that they put 8GB RAM in a 32bit CPU

[NeoWind]

Sony need to sell the inside PS4 hardware and the PC Gamer can merge into the full-tower. So in future, my PS4 can lend the power of Desktop PC Hardware without worrying too much about the performance...if this is can become a reality then we can solve a lot problem of what might be the bottleneck since we have two powerful machines working together! PCI will be the connection for PS4 and PC since it can deliver the most bandwidth to the system  :rolleyes:

[Yogurtmaster]

Sony need to sell the inside PS4 hardware and the PC Gamer can merge into the full-tower. So in future, my PS4 can lend the power of Desktop PC Hardware without worrying too much about the performance...if this is can become a reality then we can solve a lot problem of what might be the bottleneck since we have two powerful machines working together! PCI will be the connection for PS4 and PC since it can deliver the most bandwidth to the system  :rolleyes:

 

  In a few years you could probably emulate the PS4 games as they are low end PC games with off the shelf low end PC hardware.

[blerk]

  In a few years you could probably emulate the PS4 games as they are low end PC games with off the shelf low end PC hardware.

Well depends on how exotic the PS4 special sauce modifications really are. I would think perhaps 7 years maximum (i.e. towards the end of the next-gen console's lifespans) we will see some decent emulators.

 

It may be earlier especially considering the upcoming PC architecture seems like it is following more console-like design (HUMA, APU, etc).

[Yogurtmaster]

Well depends on how exotic the PS4 special sauce modifications really are. I would think perhaps 7 years maximum (i.e. towards the end of the next-gen console's lifespans) we will see some decent emulators.

 

It may be earlier especially considering the upcoming PC architecture seems like it is following more console-like design (HUMA, APU, etc).

 

   I don't see very much of anything that would really stop the PS4 from being emulated.  If you have a top of the line processor and video card and definitely over the next few years, it shouldn't be that hard as you are still using 64-bit and you are still using the Intel architecture.  Ram is the biggest thing you would need, apparently just 5 Gigabytes will do. :)

[trooper11]

Sony made a statement to distinguish the difference between Direct and Flexible memory, they didn't confirm the RAM allocation.

I have highlighted a line in your quote which also should have directed you to this conclusion.

 

 

Yes like believing that the Competitor made a statement which supports your bias when it was as clear as black and white they didn't?

 

 

For somonee who is pro-truth you sure make up a lot of stuff and post a lot of strongly biased comments.

 

 

The Xbox CPU is a x86 and the hyperv is a requirement because they wanted more than one OS its not something special or an awesome new feature as you seem to be selling it.

 

 

I believe x64 refers to it being 64bit, so I think he was right.

 

HyperV usage certainly is special considering its never been done on a console. For gamers, that tech means smarter resource allocation and less chance of seeing slowdowns when in a game or using any other feature.

[GotBored]

Somebody should tell Microsoft that they put 8GB RAM in a 32bit CPU

 

8-Core X86, Also known as a X86-64 not the same as X64.

 

Why do people bring up things which they know nothing about? Its been confirmed numerous times.. Do a google search and actually check before you post please.

 

 

  In a few years you could probably emulate the PS4 games as they are low end PC games with off the shelf low end PC hardware.

 

Oh the pro-truth-er strikes again.. Actually mid-range PC hardware, that would make Xbox One low-range PC hardware.

But games will match high-end as they can be optimized for a set hardware while PC games can't be optimized as strongly because PC components vary a lot and game developers need to support a large range of processors, graphics cards, os's, etc.

 

I think I only noticed that PC's started getting noticeably better graphics about 2 years ago which was 5 years into the PS3's life-cycle.

Xbox 360 was a fair bit earlier but there was a big gap between the PS3 and X360.

 

 

   I don't see very much of anything that would really stop the PS4 from being emulated.  If you have a top of the line processor and video card and definitely over the next few years, it shouldn't be that hard as you are still using 64-bit and you are still using the Intel architecture.  Ram is the biggest thing you would need, apparently just 5 Gigabytes will do.  :)

 

 

Emulation requires system resources, so on top of windows you need a translator 'emulator' to decipher what the game code is saying, so its not as simple as putting a game inside a PC and making it play on something with similar specs. Also the PS4 and Xbox One wont allow emulators for their games, so the only people who will make them are hackers / at-home coders, so the likeliness that the emulators will run well is minuscule. 

Then thanks to the DRM which some people wanted even more of, its going to be very difficult to crack a game for emulation.

[Fourjays Veteran]

<insert company that has a marketing department> is all about propaganda, damage control and marketing to try to get people to buy their consoles and it's all working. 

Fixed it for you. :P

 

Seriously, nothing Sony is doing marketing wise is anything different to anyone else, including Microsoft.

[Yogurtmaster]

Fixed it for you. :p

 

Seriously, nothing Sony is doing marketing wise is anything different to anyone else, including Microsoft.

 

  Your right, it's the people that are so na?ve, they take what Sony says hook... line... and Sinker....

[HawkMan]

Maybe for the first year or so. Then it'll once again become like it's been for the past several years.

 

You mean the same games with the same quality ? or better quality on the xbox because of better dev tools ? with a very few first party PS games that have better graphics ? 

 

Chances are we're rather looking at better graphics on the xbox the first couple of years, Then even for 2-3 years, then mostly the same for the last few years again, but with each platform having first party games that goes above the crowd.

[GotBored]

 

  Your right, it's the people that are so na?ve, they take what Sony says hook... line... and Sinker....

 

If you don't mind, please elaborate on what Sony is marketing that isn't all its worked up to be?

What is everyone taking in hook, line and sinker?

 

 

You mean the same games with the same quality ? or better quality on the xbox because of better dev tools ? with a very few first party PS games that have better graphics ? 

 

Chances are we're rather looking at better graphics on the xbox the first couple of years, Then even for 2-3 years, then mostly the same for the last few years again, but with each platform having first party games that goes above the crowd.

 

Blackhearted,  was talking about the PS4's available RAM and how it could effect games down the track. How does your post add or even refer to that?

You ignored or just missed what he was saying and then proceeded to push your own agenda, even though he was being critical of the PS4.

 

Also better dev tools don't make better game graphics, it only makes a game easier to develop.

Hardware specs don't make a game have better graphics either, but it makes it possible to have better graphics.

PS4 wins in the graphics department while the Xbox One has advantages in other aspects (Motion-free controls, tv, NFL interaction, etc), don't try to push off your opinion as fact it doesn't make the Xbox look good when you try to compensate the same aspect.

[Yogurtmaster]

 

 

 

If you don't mind, please elaborate on what Sony is marketing that isn't all its worked up to be?

What is everyone taking in hook, line and sinker?

 

 

 

 

   Sony is basically trying to get people to believe that they only focus on gaming and that is all.  They are trying to make people believe that they are the ONLY ones that care about gamers and the games.

 

   That is false.  The Xbox One plays games and it was built for gaming as well.   The WII U was also built for gaming.

 

   It's a giant marketing scheme to get people to buy their console.   Their Feb 20th event was marketing for this, their E3 event was marketing for this.

 

   I have heard that the Xbox One is not a gaming machine, but a media box and that somehow even though proof of a lot of games have been shown at E3 and will be more at GamesCom people still ignore that fact.   They don't even count the Wii U in the picture, it's like it doesn't exist.   It's like Sony has people brainwashed with their marketing.

[GotBored]

   Sony is basically trying to get people to believe that they only focus on gaming and that is all.  They are trying to make people believe that they are the ONLY ones that care about gamers and the games.

 

   That is false.  The Xbox One plays games and it was built for gaming as well.   The WII U was also built for gaming.

 

   It's a giant marketing scheme to get people to buy their console.   Their Feb 20th event was marketing for this, their E3 event was marketing for this.

 

   I have heard that the Xbox One is not a gaming machine, but a media box and that somehow even though proof of a lot of games have been shown at E3 and will be more at GamesCom people still ignore that fact.   They don't even count the Wii U in the picture, it's like it doesn't exist.   It's like Sony has people brainwashed with their marketing.

 

Sony portrayed that they cared for gamers when they announced they weren't going to implement draconian DRM on the PS4, when Xbox was going to.

Its what they did. No online checks, no used game blocks, no offline game sharing blocks from the start.

 

Its also because of the hardware specs, the PS4 is a more powerful systems and in gaming graphics is king. (its why we are playing fps's like crysis and bf3 instead of quake(1) or doom(1) today).

 

So its not just marketing, if there is no substance behind it no one will believe it.. (Or at least no one who isn't a fanboy)

 

I agree that the Wii U is the most gaming orientated but it also doesn't do just gaming, its excluded from the next-gen console debate cause its hardware specs are closer to current-gen consoles than next-gen.

Its also for a younger audience and Nintendo doesn't allow many games because of this. Nintendo has a lot of very fun games but the games do cater for a separate audience compared to the PS4 and Xbox One.

 

The Xbox One was designed by Microsoft to not be just a primarily gaming console, Microsoft wanted to make it the all-in-one Entertainment hub (They state this themselves numerous times). This is why most people also call it the tv box or media box, Sony taunted Xbox over used games restrictions but the tv box/media box image Xbox got was directly from Microsoft themselves. 

[Yogurtmaster]

Sony portrayed that they cared for gamers when they announced they weren't going to implement draconian DRM on the PS4, when Xbox was going to.

Its what they did. No online checks, no used game blocks, no offline game sharing blocks from the start.

 

Its also because of the hardware specs, the PS4 is a more powerful systems and in gaming graphics is king. (its why we are playing fps's like crysis and bf3 instead of quake(1) or doom(1) today).

 

So its not just marketing, if there is no substance behind it no one will believe it.. (Or at least no one who isn't a fanboy)

 

I agree that the Wii U is the most gaming orientated but it also doesn't do just gaming, its excluded from the next-gen console debate cause its hardware specs are closer to current-gen consoles than next-gen.

Its also for a younger audience and Nintendo doesn't allow many games because of this. Nintendo has a lot of very fun games but the games do cater for a separate audience compared to the PS4 and Xbox One.

 

The Xbox One was designed by Microsoft to not be just a primarily gaming console, Microsoft wanted to make it the all-in-one Entertainment hub (They state this themselves numerous times). This is why most people also call it the tv box or media box, Sony taunted Xbox over used games restrictions but the tv box/media box image Xbox got was directly from Microsoft themselves. 

 

 I have to go to bed so I can't properly answer this.   I will say that Sony was about the gamers before E3, so that is one thing you didn't mention.

The entire DRM is misunderstood and Microsoft messed that up, but Sony was for gamers before the DRM.  I will clear up the DRM aspect later (I have posted about this before, if you haven't look at the thread I created on it).

 

The GPU is better on paper on the PS4, everything else is bogus.   The Xbox One is in fact superior to Sony in 3 ways (actually 4 if you include innovation, 5 if you include the OS), I will reply about that tomorrow.

[GotBored]

 I have to go to bed so I can't properly answer this.   I will say that Sony was about the gamers before E3, so that is one thing you didn't mention.

The entire DRM is misunderstood and Microsoft messed that up, but Sony was for gamers before the DRM.  I will clear up the DRM aspect later (I have posted about this before, if you haven't look at the thread I created on it).

 

The GPU is better on paper on the PS4, everything else is bogus.   The Xbox One is in fact superior to Sony in 3 ways (actually 4 if you include innovation, 5 if you include the OS), I will reply about that tomorrow.

 

Sony confirmed they weren't putting blocks on game sharing, used games and forcing online checks during E3. (Its one of the main reasons why most declared PS4 a winner over Xbox at E3)

 

The GPU and RAM are better on paper, the CPU is the same. Hardware wise the PS4 is better.

The OS being better or not is opinion based on nothing because neither are actually available to try at the moment. (You can say the UI on the Xbox One looks better but that's an opinion again, but an opinion I'd agree with).

Please don't tell me Xbox One wins innovation because of the TV features or the cloud because I will never use the tv features and the cloud doesn't do graphics processing and the cloud is on both the PS4 and Xbox One)

(e.g Destiny 'cloud/online' based game on both consoles) The ghosting/shadow features that others have mentioned has been available to online games for a long time, even ios games do it.. so if that's another cloud feature you'd like to mention I'm sure various PS4 games will use it also.

The Kinect has been upgraded with new features and it is innovative, also the scale-able Azure cloud/dedicated-servers is also innovative for gaming.

 

I like the Kinect and am happy with the improvements but for the scale-able Azure servers not so much, because I don't think it will affect me. It will affect developers who could save money on server hosting because Azure can shrink and expand as the player base decreases or increases. But for me as a gamer, I'm assuming the developers on PS4 will just pay for servers they think will be utilized and then expand or decrease as time goes by depending on player base movements. Sony may even introduce similar servers or just let developers host their own servers or let them find a organisation which can (Like Microsoft who already let game developers on different platforms use it).

- Also for PC games which require dedicated servers, lots of ISP's decide to host games for their customers so its possible they would do the same for next-gen consoles.

Its a selling point for them 'Come to Telstra, Optus, iiNet, etc we host so-and-so games' lower latency on direct connection to ISP host. (These are AUS ISP's not sure about other countries).

 

I'm not sure if the Azure servers will always keep game data on servers and therefore wont need to close down dedicated servers which means your 5yr old game can still be played online which would be a good benefit with the Xbox.

But Microsoft haven't discussed this so far.

 

I will check back to see what you consider the benefits, but whatever they are please provide known facts (or sources which supplement your choices if they are hearsay like majority of 'the cloud' features).

I'm a pretty logical person with an open-mind so any strong-points you make with substance I will take on-board and am happy to echo on later posts.

 

I'm not a loyalist and I just buy whatever I think is better at the time; for the consoles I want the Xbox for some of its exclusives (Fable) and the kinect features (Just Dance, Dead Rising 3) and the PS4 for some of its exclusives (Infamous) and graphics advantage (Multi-Platform Games). To be honest if the PS4 Eye is anything like the Kinect I won't even buy the Xbox One and get Fable for PC (Using a X360 controller to play via Windows). I'm not that big of a Halo fan in-case anyone was wondering, I liked the first two but it got repetitive after that. As for Forza or Gran Turismo I don't like either, I prefer the multi-plat racing games like NFS, Carmageddon and Destruction Derby, fighting and sports games are also multi-plat like Street Fighter and Fifa. 

 

It comes down to personal preference to me the exclusives are better on the PS4, cause the titles on the Xbox One I like are also available on PC if not on PS4. (e.g TitanFall / Fable (all have been released to Windows PC so far so am assuming next will be also)) this is why I will buy the PS4 and I will buy the Xbox for the kinect features. (I hated playing PS3 move with the orb controller) The controller-free Kinect is a much better option and also the heart rate monitoring could be useful in exercise type games, the IR camera which allows you to use Kinect in low-light / dark rooms (theater room)  the microphone on the kinect which can be used in games like Dead Rising 3 so zombies can hear you is also a great new features I want to use and its improved latency and accuracy should clear up the minor issues I had with the original Kinect.

[threetonesun]

Maybe for the first year or so. Then it'll once again become like it's been for the past several years.

 

Again, if the differences in the same game on a PS3 or Xbox 360 bother you, buy a PC and you can play the game at 4k resolution on 4 separate monitors, or whatever floats your boat.

[BajiRav]

Hardware wise the PS4 is better.

It no doubt has faster RAM and better GPU but I think XB1 has additional features that might give it an edge. I am not sure if one or more of these are available on PS4 too.

- XB1 has dedicated Audio processing hardware

- streams DTS audio to all controllers.

- ESRAM + Move Engines : we don't know how and if these will help the weaker GPU.

- Wifi Direct for controllers and smartglass

- Miracast support (not directly gaming related but may be used for smartglass?)