Steve Ballmer

[LaP]

I agree with that. I also agree that you probably should separate them. But I think it's more important to see consumer Windows licenses vs. Corporate Windows licenses vs OEM licenses as opposed to PC sales.

 

Yeah you are right they should separate the licenses instead of the hardware.

 

I've seen many nany many times a computer in the corporate world having a windows 7 license but having XP or even linux installed on it. I've never ever seen a blackberry or windows phone with android on it ;)

[LaP]

I think you are exactly right. Windows has gotten too reliable. If it's working, and working fine, people don't see a need to upgrade.

 

So basically Gates strategy to make Windows 9x bad was a good one ;)

 

it's a joke

[jake1eye]

I like the Surface Pro it a well design piece of hardware, but I still went out

and bought an Nexus 7 with android because I hate Windows 8 that much.

[+Warwagon MVC]

I agree, Windows 8 has been a disaster for Microsoft.

 

Whether or not the the bad press of Windows 8 has been spread by people who have used it or people who haven't , the bad press is there. I was at a customers house a few days ago and she was talking about a new computer, she asked about windows 8, she said "I've heard such horrible things about it, everyone hates it". Now the MS fanboys can deny the bad press is out there, but I can tell you first hand (as someone who deals with the average person) I hear this every time the word "Windows 8" is mentioned.

 

Then I got a call from an older couple who got a new computer with windows 8, they called me because they were "Sooooo confused", they said "we are about ready to take this computer back".

 

Then the neighbor kid who is in 8th grade talked to me about Windows 8, he said, i'm glad I already had a computer with windows 8 because they just got windows 8 at the school and EVERYONE is struggling. They are all so confused.

 

Now to be fair not everyone hates windows 8, a few like it.

[Growled Member]

^ It does have bad press. Anyone who denies that is crazy. I have several friends that has either used it at home or at work, and not one of them likes it. In fact, it's completely the opposite. They all hate it and they tell all their friends how awful it is. Word gets around. 

[MikeChipshop Member]

Lol, creative figure management.

[typu]

reality is way more complex. that line is on a far higher Level than any other consumer product. direct comparison Fails.

[Lord Method Man]

 

 

Then I got a call from an older couple who got a new computer with windows 8, they called me because they were "Sooooo confused", they said "we are about ready to take this computer back".

 

 

Funny, those are the people that Windows 8 was supposedly going to be made for. Remember the "Why we need Windows 8" thread?

 

I've yet to meet anyone who got a new Windows 8 system who didn't hate the Modern UI, most tell me they want Windows 7 on it instead.

[PGHammer]

^ It does have bad press. Anyone who denies that is crazy. I have several friends that has either used it at home or at work, and not one of them likes it. In fact, it's completely the opposite. They all hate it and they tell all their friends how awful it is. Word gets around. 

Yes - it has bad press.  However, the issue isn't the bad press, but whether the bad press (be it of Windows 8, or Steve Ballmer, or even Microsoft as a whole) is justified.

 

A little tidbit from yesterday's monstrous and wide-ranging stock selloff - out of the entire five hundred companies in the Standard and Poor's Major Corporation Index (known as the S&P 500 all over the planet) just two of the five hundred gained over the previous day's close - Microsoft and Alcoa.  Going merely by the numbers, Windows 8, or even Surface, can't be but so much of a problem. (While Google isn't part of the S&P, Apple is - and Apple followed the herd; the direction opposite of Microsoft.)  Unlike Alcoa (aluminum is a :"conflict metal" - in the sense that it has uses in warfighting), how would Microsoft be affected by the conflict in Syria, either directly or indirectly?

 

Another part of the bad press is the plethora of utilities that put back the semblance of a Start menu - that has been used by critics to bash Microsoft.  However, there are users of Windows 8 that don't use ANY of these third-party utilities - and they don''t have touch support on their PCs, either. I get the Start menu being excised causing consternation - after all, it's been around seventeen years.  Still, applications from the Start menu era are still usable - in their intended manner - despite Windows 8's lack of Start menu.  I have asked the Start menu's defenders to find so much as a SINGLE application - from Microsoft OR a third-party - that utterly relies on the Start menu, and is thus incompatible with Windows 8 or 8.1.  So far, I've had no data, evidence, or anything else from the bashers and critics.  I'm not saying that the issue itself is false; I did predict the issue.  However, because applications from the Start menu era work just fine without it, it does in fact, prove that they are not dependent on it.  And if the applications - desktop applications, mind - aren't dependent on it, and Windows as an OS isn't dependent on it, that means that any dependence is user-specific.  Didn't say it (the user dependence) was either good OR bad - merely that it was there.  However, pointing that out got ME in for a lot of attacks - as though I had pointed out a flaw in them.

[PGHammer]

Funny, those are the people that Windows 8 was supposedly going to be made for. Remember the "Why we need Windows 8" thread?

 

I've yet to meet anyone who got a new Windows 8 system who didn't hate the Modern UI, most tell me they want Windows 7 on it instead.

LMM, without meaning to, you uncovered a major part of the consternation over Windows 8 from established users - it's UI/UX is not absolutely identical to that of Windows 7.

 

How much has the UI/UX changed merely between 9x/NT4 and Windows 7?  Very little - despite taskbar pinning, the Superbar, etc.

 

The Start menu being gone (and the addition of the StartScreen) is a major change in both UI and UX - the largest since the introduction OF the Start menu.

 

The immediate reaction to a major change is "Put it back the way it was!"  Doesn't matter what the change is in; it doesn't even matter whether the change has greater benefits (examples - changes in the NHS in the UK and the Affordable Care Act, and the changes it is bringing, in the US) - we as societies hate, despise, and LOATHE major change.

[Noir Angel]

Sales aren't generally weak, just sales of Windows products. Android smartphones, Android tablets, and Apple tablets are selling very strongly. People can make all the excuses they want, I say people are interested in tablets just not Windows 8 tablets.

 

As for desktop PCs... Sales have been declining for a while but I've yet to meet a single member of joe public that's brought a Windows 8 computer or laptop and not absolutely hated it. The Microsoft apologists can make all the excuses they want, the evidence I see is that the public just doesn't like the direction Microsoft are taking with Windows.

[adrynalyne]

Sales aren't generally weak, just sales of Windows products. Android smartphones, Android tablets, and Apple tablets are selling very strongly. People can make all the excuses they want, I say people are interested in tablets just not Windows 8 tablets.

 

As for desktop PCs... Sales have been declining for a while but I've yet to meet a single member of joe public that's brought a Windows 8 computer or laptop and not absolutely hated it. The Microsoft apologists can make all the excuses they want, the evidence I see is that the public just doesn't like the direction Microsoft are taking with Windows.

Key statement right there.

 

I've heard both sides.

[Noir Angel]

So have I, I just go with objective evidence. Numbers don't lie, nor do the opinions on tech sites with a less biased spread of users, nor do ordinary people. I work for a computer refurbishment charity and we have had a fair few customers complain about Windows 8.

 

Neowin is an exception, not a rule. On Neowin you'd probably find people prepared to buy poop in a bag if it had a Microsoft logo on it.

[adrynalyne]

So have I, I just go with objective evidence. Numbers don't lie, nor do the opinions on tech sites with a less biased spread of users, nor do ordinary people. I work for a computer refurbishment charity and we have had a fair few customers complain about Windows 8.

 

Neowin is an exception, not a rule. On Neowin you'd probably find people prepared to buy poop in a bag if it had a Microsoft logo on it.

You assumed I heard both sides...on Neowin.

 

If PC sales are down, Windows 8 sales are down.  However, Windows 8 sales are not what brought the PC sales down.  Enterprise sales of Windows 8 won't factor into for at least another year.  A lot of businesses have only switched to Windows 7 recently.

 

I work for a software developer.  Half of the PCs we use are Windows 8.  There is a Windows Server 2012 box behind me.

At the end of the day, a start screen vs. menu isn't going to scare off everyone.

[Growled Member]

At the end of the day, a start screen vs. menu isn't going to scare off everyone.

But it does. That's one of the things that people who hate Windows 8 hate about it. What else is there to hate?

[adrynalyne]

But it does. That's one of the things that people who hate Windows 8 hate about it. What else is there to hate?

It does for you, maybe.

And it does for others.  But read what I said.  You are not everyone.  You and I are not everyone.

 

Windows 8 can take some blame for slow sales, sure.  However it is more to blame on a slow PC market.

[MorganX]

But it does. That's one of the things that people who hate Windows 8 hate about it. What else is there to hate?

 I'm not going to use the word hate, but in our enterprise, many, many people miss the Start Menu. Being able to type at the Start Page is OK, but they see it as more work. They're not going to do a lot of Start Page customization. Other than that, there's not a whole lot of complaint so far. The Surface Pros are really doing well and endearing people to 8. There's just nothing for them to do with the Modern UI at the moment.

 

We're still completing Windows 7 rollout, which is slowed by not purchasing new PCs and moving to VDI instead. Hope to have 1/3 on VDI in next 12 months.

 

8.1 will help, and even just having the Start Button back will as well.

[PGHammer]

Sales aren't generally weak, just sales of Windows products. Android smartphones, Android tablets, and Apple tablets are selling very strongly. People can make all the excuses they want, I say people are interested in tablets just not Windows 8 tablets.

 

As for desktop PCs... Sales have been declining for a while but I've yet to meet a single member of joe public that's brought a Windows 8 computer or laptop and not absolutely hated it. The Microsoft apologists can make all the excuses they want, the evidence I see is that the public just doesn't like the direction Microsoft are taking with Windows.

However, you left out sales of Macs.  Macs alone (portable and otherwise) buck the picture you are trying to paint - in fact, sales of Macs are suffering from a larger decline in terms of percentages than sales of PCs running Windows.

 

Then there is the decline in sales of iPads post-launch of RT - that's real.  I'm not saying that all of the decline is due to RT; however, almost certainly some of it IS due to RT - RT sales came out of someone's hide.

 

And nobody (not even those of us that like and use Windows 8 without difficulty) is saying that there wouldn't be consternation over the Start menu being gone - most of us, in fact, have stipulated it.  However, as has been the case with MOST objections to major change - in anything - the reasons for the consternation are subjective - NOT objective.

 

And that is, in fact, your REAL issue with Windows 8 - you can't get past that major change and have no interest in actually trying.

[Lezard]

Balmer has always been an idiot when it comes to what the consumer wants. Noone wants metro ui on their pc's, other than ms fans here who constantly defend that pos.

 

The new "smart" bar is so convoluted and confusing that it takes time to learn and most of the people I know, would rather learn something else and stick to windows 7.

 

Change is the ugly part of windows 8, its how it made everything that was easier to do with the start menu, more cumbersome and tedious. Windows 8 would had been an awesome os, if everyone had touch screen displays on their pc's.

But sadly very few do, thus that os failed and will keep failing.

[Noir Angel]

And that is, in fact, your REAL issue with Windows 8 - you can't get past that major change and have no interest in actually trying.

 

No, my real reason is that it's utterly crap. I'm perfectly capable of adapting to changes when I actually consider them useful to me, however as I've repeatedly pointed out change for the sake of change does not imply improvement.

[das reich wolf]

Not really. People dislike Windows 8. Sure, tablets and mobile are becoming big, but Microsoft has that space covered....with Windows 8. People aren't buying it. I would never, ever use it and I have a few friends that run it at work and they curse it constantly. They ask me how to do things and I just laugh at them. Windows 8 just ain't cutting it.

You sound like a great person to work with. Someone comes to you with an issue and you laugh at them with no help. What a tool.

 

As for people not buying Windows 8 .. In my house of 4 people, we have 1 Server 2012, 4 laptops running Windows 8 Pro, Surface Pro running Windows 8.1, Samsung Ativ tablet running windows 8 and HP TouchPad running WebOS and JellyBean. I have recently upgraded a school environment to Windows 8 (from XP) for a client.

 

Normal people are adapting to Windows 8 well enough when talked through some of the quirks. Sure, there have been questions, and some things are not as well liked as before, but overall the level of support has actually lessened, which means it is easier to use for the lay person.

[Shiranui]

Who said sit down?

I got four words for ya: I ****ed this company. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!

[Growled Member]

It does for you, maybe.

And it does for others.  But read what I said.  You are not everyone.  You and I are not everyone.

I don't think you got what I typed in full so I will emphasize it:

 

That's one of the things that people who hate Windows 8 hate about it.

 

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone.:)

[Growled Member]

You sound like a great person to work with. Someone comes to you with an issue and you laugh at them with no help. What a tool.

 

I usually don't find such posts worth an answer, but I will make this one exception and hope I don't live to regret it. We run a mix of Windows XP and 7 at work. 8 is way too new for us but if the boss said roll it out, I would roll it out. I would probably recommend a third party start menu and no one would really know they were even on Windows 8. I use Access and Excel at work heavily as we are a Windows shop. And of course I am suppose to be a Word genius too since our secretary always needs some help. Thank god for Google. :D

 

At home I am a Linux guy. :)

[MorganX]

I hope investors realize Microsoft is mature. You're not going to see startup/visionary type returns anymore. Long term, steady, reliable growth.