Call of Duty: Ghosts And Titanfall To Run At 720p On Xbox One?

[vcfan]

Isn't GT5 proof driving games aren't as taxing on a console, considering the resolution it's running on a PS3. It's not as if The Last of Us and Uncharted were doing 1080/60FPS.

GT5 wasnt really 1080p. 1280x1080 with 2xQAA,and 720p with 4xMSAA when console set to 720p output. Forza 4 was the same 720p with 4xMSAA. GTA IV for xbox 360 was 720p with 2xMSAA,and an unlocked frame rate, with framerate hitting the 40s and 50s. Meaning, performance was pretty much inline with what other heavy games were doing, yeah, maybe a little less taxing, but not to a high degree.

[spudtrooper]

In what sense?

EDIT: Just seen your editied post. Whereas youre right officially, it doesn't take much to look at the specs and come to that conclusion. Especially when console coding is essentially very low down so there's no intermediate layer which slows things down. As a developer, because of that, you have to code to the architecture.

 

This is one of the oddest console launches i can remember..  2 weeks away from launch and we still don't know much about ps4 and 3 weeks away from xb1 and we know very little there too.

 

either way, exciting stuff and exciting competition

[firey]

ugh... you don't know much about racing sims and forza in particular do you ?  At least try to look up something before you talk about it. 

 

Explain how I am wrong.  Please.  And don't say "Well the need realistic lighting and shadows"

[George P Global Moderator]

So they wanted a locked 60 frames and decided to go with a lower res on the XB1, who knows the why?   Does it matter?  I mean we've seen the comparison with BF4 and the game looks very good on both.   And neither is 1080p native for that game, so basically we're talking epenis here more than anything.    Where's the CoD comparison videos and screenshots?   Can we get those as well?  If it's the same thing as with BF4 all over where both versions look very very close to each other with minor details then all you guys bickering and boasting is pointless.  

[soniqstylz]

Ryse is on rails?  That's the first I have heard of that.  Ryse basically reminds me of God of War with its combo finishers that are QTE in nature.

 

I haven't paid that close attention, but to me it almost seemed more like the Arkham games using swords.

 

I don't think it's on-rails anymore.  It was when it was a Kinect-only game, but now it's just linear I believe.

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

Explain how I am wrong. Please. And don't say "Well the need realistic lighting and shadows"

The lighting in forza is actually pre-baked for a start, where as drive club is dynamic. Hence why drive club is doing weather effects and night to day time transitioning. Of course HawkMan will try to argue rain in a racing simulator is unrealistic....

Point being you cut back on graphic intensive features you can push FPS/resolution higher.

[trooper11]

The lighting in forza is actually pre-baked for a start, where as drive club is dynamic. Hence why drive club is doing weather effects and night to day time transitioning. Of course HawkMan will try to argue rain in a racing simulator is unrealistic....

Point being you cut back on graphic intensive features you can push FPS/resolution higher.

 

 

So is the claim now that Forza is poor visually because its a racing sim and racing sims tend to focus on more graphically intense features overall or that its poor visually because the X1 is just so underpowered?

 

I haven't seen people ripping Forza for not looking good. 

 

Sometimes it seems like you guys love to argue over these details that while fascinating, don't end up meaning a lot when actually playing a game. 

[+Audioboxer Subscriber²]

So is the claim now that Forza is poor visually because its a racing sim and racing sims tend to focus on more graphically intense features overall or that its poor visually because the X1 is just so underpowered?

I haven't seen people ripping Forza for not looking good.

Sometimes it seems like you guys love to argue over these details that while fascinating, don't end up meaning a lot when actually playing a game.

To take forza being visually poor away from what I said is to be hyper sensitive. The game looks great but there are reasons to counter the people constantly saying "well forza is 1080p/60FPS, every other game should be or devs are lazy".

[spudtrooper]

To take forza being visually poor away from what I said is to be hyper sensitive. The game looks great but there are reasons to counter the people constantly saying "well forza is 1080p/60FPS, every other game should be or devs are lazy".

 

 

I actually agree with audioboxer?  hell froze over :)

 

The games are going to look nice across all platforms

[George P Global Moderator]

To take forza being visually poor away from what I said is to be hyper sensitive. The game looks great but there are reasons to counter the people constantly saying "well forza is 1080p/60FPS, every other game should be or devs are lazy".

 

While I agree, at the same time forza isn't going to be the only game that we know of to do 1080p.  Sure some games are more demanding but I don't think anyone thinks CoD is in that category.   BF4 I can understand though, and again, the two versions look very close and very good.  I see no reason to pick one over the other as far as graphics goes when it comes to that title.    I'm waiting for the CoD comparisons but I expect they're also going to be very close even with the res difference.  

[trooper11]

To take forza being visually poor away from what I said is to be hyper sensitive. The game looks great but there are reasons to counter the people constantly saying "well forza is 1080p/60FPS, every other game should be or devs are lazy".

 

I didn't mean to sound sensitive, I was just wondering where you were coming from with your opinion.

 

But aren't you also being a bit sensitive when you claim that people are constantly saying that because Forza is 1080p/60 that all games must be or devs are lazy?  No one has said that.  The closest anyone has come to that is to say that Forza proves that 1080p/60 is possible.  No one has said that all X1 games must be that or it means devs are lazy.

 

I think your taking the questions about if the X1 is harder to develop for and was late to be finalized for developers vs the ps4 to mean that its an excuse or trying to ignore the hardware differences.  Its not that at all. 

 

If the earlier rumors are correct about the above issues, then maybe that's why these early multiplatform titles are as far apart as they are.  That does not take away from the fact that the ps4 has the hardware edge, just questioning how much can be squeezed out of the X1.  Some are now saying that these launch titles prove that the X1 will not get any better over time. I think that's pretty silly considering the history of consoles.  I have a hard time believing that what we are seeing from the ps4 or x1 now is the best we can hope for during its life.

[spaceelf]

But aren't you also being a bit sensitive when you claim that people are constantly saying that because Forza is 1080p/60 that all games must be or devs are lazy?  No one has said that.  The closest anyone has come to that is to say that Forza proves that 1080p/60 is possible.  No one has said that all X1 games must be that or it means devs are lazy.

Dude I'm an X1 fan and I think some of the guys in here must worship the damn thing, even if I think AB goes a bit overboard in the other direction.

[trooper11]

Dude I'm an X1 fan and I think some of the guys in here must worship the damn thing, even if I think AB goes a bit overboard in the other direction.

 

 

I'm not denying that those people exist, but has anyone in this thread made the statement that AB was trying to refute?

 

I just think it is a matter of feeling like you must squash an idea before it gets too out of line.

 

Again, no one has said that Forza running at 1080p/60 means that all games must do that or its lazy devs, only that it proves its possible.

[Athernar]

The closest anyone has come to that is to say that Forza proves that 1080p/60 is possible.  No one has said that all X1 games must be that or it means devs are lazy.

 

That is ultimately a useless observation though at the end of the day, any device capable of outputting to a 1080p display is capable of running games at 1080p. The question should be can they compute enough frames at that resolution in the time interval set, and if no - do they sacrifice resolution or cut back on what is being computed.

 

The reality is in a few years time the "next gen" consoles will be back in the <=720p30 ditch so devs can push more shader effects and so forth, so all this quibbling is entirely pointless.

[spaceelf]

That is ultimately a useless observation though at the end of the day, any device capable of outputting to a 1080p display is capable of running games at 1080p. The question should be can they compute enough frames at that resolution in the time interval set, and if no - do they sacrifice resolution or cut back on what is being computed.

 

The reality is in a few years time the "next gen" consoles will be back in the <=720p30 ditch so devs can push more shader effects and so forth, so ultimately all this quibbling is entirely pointless.

 A lot of games on the current gen render at 480p so I wouldn't say that's the ditch.

[trooper11]

That is ultimately a useless observation though at the end of the day, any device capable of outputting to a 1080p display is capable of running games at 1080p. The question should be can they compute enough frames at that resolution in the time interval set, and if no - do they sacrifice resolution or cut back on what is being computed.

 

The reality is in a few years time the "next gen" consoles will be back in the <=720p30 ditch so devs can push more shader effects and so forth, so all this quibbling is entirely pointless.

 

 

I think your right about all of that, no arguments here.  Its more than just 1080p/60.  Unfortunately, most of the time, people want to talk in just those terms.  The 'eye' test is the ultimate measure, but since you cant quantify that, you cant use it to argue a point.

 

Eventually, we will be back in the spot we find ourselves for the current gen.  Its just a matter of how long that takes.

 

Also, do you guys feel that this new generation of consoles will not improve nearly as much as previous consoles have over time? 

 

I can site plenty of examples of games that comes out at launch being vastly inferior to what comes later.  Does the reality that both consoles have moved closer to pcs mean that there is less to be exploited as devs 'figure out' how each works best?

[Athernar]

 A lot of games on the current gen render at 480p so I wouldn't say that's the ditch.

 

Hence why I said <=720p. ;)

[spaceelf]

Also, do you guys feel that this new generation of consoles will not improve nearly as much as previous consoles have over time? 

Yes and no.  The graphics aren't likely to have quite the difference over time as before, but the consoles being as capable as PCs (and more capable in some ways) will lift the entire market up in what capabilities the games take advantage of.

 

I'm not buying expecting the machine to still be relevant in three years, but I don't expect any other platform to significantly outpace it in non-graphical capability.

[spaceelf]

Hence why I said <=720p. ;)

Fair enough, didn't notice that bit.

[Yusuf M. Veteran]

Just because it uses the source engine doesn't mean any computer can run it. the source engine itself is the quek engine. a computer that could run that can't run the source engine games. 

 

in fact the fact they use the source engine may be what means it have to run at reduced resolution. the source engine was never designed for the textures, polycounts, render fidelity and effects used in such a modern game. as such the engine won't be half as efficient as say a modern engine like Frostbite at rendering the same scene. 

Well, the main reason they chose the engine was its performance. The developers said themselves that they wanted to hit 60 FPS with current-gen hardware. I guess they went for more effects and a lower target resolution. Who knows, maybe it'll look better than native 1080p/60. I read that they're going for full-screen effects with v-sync enabled so maybe they're pushing the Xbox One hardware to its limits.

 

There isn't a GPU available that can do full fill rate 1080p/60.. The 780 will chug along in ultra settings on BF3 at 1080p, maybe two of them can do it smoother but then you're looking at 1100 in video cards.

 

Developers always use tools & processing to make a game look good at intended resolutions and on the x1 they happen to have hardware scaling that appears to make some sharp looking and on the ps4 they just appear to have lessened some texture resolution to achieve an artificial goal.  Neither platform will ever be able to do full 1080p/60 smooth as butter native resolution.  Even forza running 1080p/60 is doing so because they're only filling in the frames of the active scene and not re-drawing every pixel of every frame.  The game engines, game goals and game design lead a lot of what drives the actual visual experience but with that said, the highest of high end PC gaming rigs aren't even capable of what you guys seem to be expecting this generation to do.

 

Just what did people expect with this generation?

This benchmark shows a single GTX 780 running Battlefield 4 at 47 FPS (1920x1200, 4xMSAA/HBAO). I'm pretty sure it can run BF3 at more than 60 FPS at 1920x1080.

[HawkMan]

Explain how I am wrong.  Please.  And don't say "Well the need realistic lighting and shadows"

 

First you're comparing the "AI" of NFS and on rails traffic to the advanced AI of a proper race sim, probably the most taxing AI you will see in any game. On top of that you have the physics in Forza, something NFS and Drive club aren't even close to matching, 360 times a seconds it calculated ALL the physics. For Forza that includes ACCURATELY calculating the physics of EACH tire on the car, from pressure, heat, deformation, grip based on all this, side slip wear and so on.  And that's only one aspect of the physics, there's also road, road surface, road temp, all the aero physics of the car and other cars. since unlike most other racing sims, Forza does the physics for all cars, so the AI will slide out for the same mistakes you do. They won't just artificially be put into a pretend slide because the AI routine say it's a good time to make a mistake. 

 

Forza is an advanced RC race car, whereas NFS and Drive club is a simple pull back toy. they're both cars, they move move, buuuuut....

[HawkMan]

The lighting in forza is actually pre-baked for a start, where as drive club is dynamic. Hence why drive club is doing weather effects and night to day time transitioning. Of course HawkMan will try to argue rain in a racing simulator is unrealistic....

Point being you cut back on graphic intensive features you can push FPS/resolution higher.

 

Really, you're saying the lighting on a MOVING car is pre baked .... :facepalm:  

[firey]

First you're comparing the "AI" of NFS and on rails traffic to the advanced AI of a proper race sim, probably the most taxing AI you will see in any game. On top of that you have the physics in Forza, something NFS and Drive club aren't even close to matching, 360 times a seconds it calculated ALL the physics. For Forza that includes ACCURATELY calculating the physics of EACH tire on the car, from pressure, heat, deformation, grip based on all this, side slip wear and so on.  And that's only one aspect of the physics, there's also road, road surface, road temp, all the aero physics of the car and other cars. since unlike most other racing sims, Forza does the physics for all cars, so the AI will slide out for the same mistakes you do. They won't just artificially be put into a pretend slide because the AI routine say it's a good time to make a mistake. 

 

Forza is an advanced RC race car, whereas NFS and Drive club is a simple pull back toy. they're both cars, they move move, buuuuut....

 

While yes there are a lot of physics involved.. and I am not denying that.. there are large calculations inside of NFS and Drive Club as well.   Each part of the vehicle is an object.  All calculations are done in real time.  However I guarantee most of which is based on  standard:  velocity, mass, duration, drag, acceleration.   Meaning X Tires have Y Values,  X Suspensions has Y Values,  X Car has Y Values, X Section of road has Y Values.   These are then just calculated based on things such as Weather (ie:  if breaking  -> acceleration -= (brakes->drag - RAINEFFECT))  from there velocity.x -= acceleration.x).

Don't get me wrong there are a lot of physics.. and there is a lot of AI however.. it is very fixed AI all AI is the same AI.. it's all how can we get the car to the end the fastest?  You may have 2,3,4,5 different styles/difficulties of AI but it's the exact same AI.   

NFS/Drive Club may not take tire pressure, heat, etc into consideration.. but it is still going to take mass, velocity, duration, acceleration, drag  into account.  The cars will not all weigh the same, they are not all going to drive the same.   Also, as it is more open world there will be world based physics to take into account (falling structures, etc).   While yes most traffic is on rails, there are still others that aren't (Cops).  Now the AI has to be different.. all drivers will have the Get in Car and move AI.. but the cops will have their own AI, and other racers have their own AI.

I'm not saying Forza is ######, I am saying that while it appears to have a bunch of special things physics wise.. without them you would have nothing but an old-school racing sim that your car was always the fastest and you constantly made left turns.  

[JonnyLH]

The lighting in forza is actually pre-baked for a start, where as drive club is dynamic. Hence why drive club is doing weather effects and night to day time transitioning. Of course HawkMan will try to argue rain in a racing simulator is unrealistic....

Point being you cut back on graphic intensive features you can push FPS/resolution higher.

Forza has the most advanced racing physics engine going. You honestly going to tell me an arcade driving physics are on the same lines as Forza? Have you ever pressed up on the dpad while playing forza? That should give you a pretty decent idea.

[HawkMan]

Sigh...

I give up. Read up on Forza physics and AI.