You can't be Santa -- Santa is White

By Hum
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Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

So, can a white guy play Malcolm X?

 

Not applicable. Malcolm X was a real person and he was black. Talking about fictional characters ...

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Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

And, Abraham Lincoln was black. At least, to those of us who admire him...

 

The fact that people ignore reality in religion is of no surprise. The reality is that Jesus was not white though, no matter how wrong they have it in the West or in Asia.

 

I don't do the honorary black dude thing (hear me Richie Incognito). Lincoln was white. What he did has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Nor, half the country who did the right thing, sheltered runaway slaves at risk to their own family. All that. And if there's ever anyone whose physical appearance is irrelevant it's Jesus, who, based on where he lived and his occupation while in the flesh, was a somewhat sturdily built arab-ish dude. Enough of that. Back on topic, I think Clark Griswald could be black but if I was the actor I'd be like, hey, keep Beverly DeAngelo ...

Mentor

thomastmc

Posted
Posted

I don't do the honorary black dude thing (hear me Richie Incognito). Lincoln was white. What he did has nothing to do with the color of his skin. Nor, half the country who did the right thing, sheltered runaway slaves at risk to their own family. All that. And if there's ever anyone whose physical appearance is irrelevant it's Jesus, who, based on where he lived and his occupation while in the flesh, was a somewhat sturdily built arab-ish dude. Enough of that. Back on topic, I think Clark Griswald could be black but if I was the actor I'd be like, hey, keep Beverly DeAngelo ...

 

I was being sarcastic about Abraham Lincoln. If Jesus can be an honorary white and/or Asian person, why not make Lincoln an honorary black person? Because both examples are equally ridiculous, is my point.

 

Which one of these persons is unlike the others... Lincoln, Jesus, Caesar, Santa Claus... I'd totally agree that it's irrelevant in relation to this topic :)

 

BTW, I don't think any white guy other than Chevy Chase could pull off Clark Griswold, let alone a black guy. Maybe Steve Martin, maybe. The guy from the Office and Hangover, is a very remote possibility. Clark Griswold is who Richard Pryor or Chris Rock are imitating when they do their white guy impressions, and while it's funny to watch for brief bits on stage, Chevy Chase was so great because he was so believable as that person.

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Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

Fully applicable.  Both are recognised icons and roles defined by a very specific look.

 

No, one is a real person, with a real history, and with a real ethnic background. The other is not. St. Nicholas is real, but that's not Santa Claus. St. Nick's giving and who he gave it to didn't translate well, so the sentiment of giving was infused into this mythical character.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

I was being sarcastic about Abraham Lincoln. If Jesus can be an honorary white and/or Asian person, why not make Lincoln an honorary black person? Because both examples are equally ridiculous, is my point.

 

Which one of these persons is unlike the others... Lincoln, Jesus, Caesar, Santa Claus... I'd totally agree that it's irrelevant in relation to this topic :)

 

BTW, I don't think any white guy other than Chevy Chase could pull off Clark Griswold, let alone a black guy. Maybe Steve Martin, maybe. The guy from the Office and Hangover, is a very remote possibility. Clark Griswold is who Richard Pryor or Chris Rock are imitating when they do their white guy impressions, and while it's funny to watch for brief bits on stage, Chevy Chase was so great because he was so believable as that person.

 

You're probably right about Clark. His "whiteness" is an integral part of who his character is, at least in the first one. Race/ethnicity doesn't have to mean anything bad nor define a person. But sometimes it does...

 

If that teacher doesn't know there's black Santas, she must never go to the mall at Christmas time, lol. She's kind of dense, but she definitely shouldn't lose her job based solely on that incident.

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Mentor

thomastmc

Posted
Posted (edited)

Your probably right about Clark. His "whiteness" is an integral part of who his character is, at least in the first one. Race/ethnicity doesn't have to mean anything bad nor define a person. But sometimes it does...

 

If that teacher doesn't know there's black Santas, she must never go to the mall at Christmas time, lol. She's kinds dense, but she definitely shouldn't lose her job based solely on that incident.

 

It's really more about culture than race or ethnicity. We just happen to be mostly split culturally along the lines of race and ethnicity.

 

In a lot of ways, it's no different than U.S./Europe, or the English and the French or Germans. Even the mid-west and east/west coasts and the south in the U.S.. There are things about our culture that we can see are funny or odd, especially through the eyes of someone from another culture, as well as things we find funny or odd about other cultures.

 

Santa Claus is definitely funny and odd, especially for anyone from a culture that doesn't have a Santa Claus. The reason I think Jesus comes up so often and quickly in every conversation I've seen about whether Santa can be black is because some people, even though they know he's as real as the Easter Bunny, still see Santa Claus in sort of the same way they did when they were children. They sort of see him as being like Jesus, or at least the odd man out in the Holy Trinity.

Edited by thomastmc
Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

> The reality is that Jesus was not white though, no matter how wrong they have it in the West or in Asia.

You can't know that.

Anthropologically Caucasians include all or part of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and West, Central and South Asia. There are Indians who qualify.

In the US census "white" includes "a person having origins in any of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa." Brazil has a similar definition. These are the largest nations who define "white."

Jesus, a Galilean, came from the Middle East and could very well have been a Caucasian / "white."

Mentor

thomastmc

Posted
Posted

You can't know that.

Anthropologically Caucasians include all or part of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and West, Central and South Asia. There are Indians who qualify.

In the US census "white" includes "a person having origins in any of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa." Brazil has a similar definition. These are the largest nations who define "white."

Jesus, a Galilean, came from the Middle East and could very well have been a Caucasian / "white."

 

Caucasoids aren't mostly white like Europeans. Their skin tone ranges from very light to brown.  

 

Sure, there is no way to know exactly what Jesus looked like. We do know what Jewish people around the 1st century looked like though, and it's not Caucasoid.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

You can't know that.

Anthropologically Caucasians include all or part of the populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and West, Central and South Asia. There are Indians who qualify.

In the US census "white" includes "a person having origins in any of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa." Brazil has a similar definition. These are the largest nations who define "white."

Jesus, a Galilean, came from the Middle East and could very well have been a Caucasian / "white."

 

If you're classifying white as Caucasian, then he was Caucasian. But almost surely not white, nor blue eyed. Practically all arabs are Caucasian including Sadaam Hussein. Hispanics are Caucasian and by that criterion, therefore white. Hence the white/non-Hispanic white/Hispanic option of government forms.

 

Cleopatra was white as well, Persian to be specific, as was the Ramses line of Pharohs. Redheads. Nubian Pharos were Negroid, and very black. Egyptian culture was not a color based racist society. If you lived Egyptian culture, you were Egyptian.

 

American racism is it's own animal, created for a purpose, and perpetuated by racist Americans, though the slave trade is over, now we trade in human women and children mostly. No need to create a criteria to justify discrimination against them, just kidnap them and sell them.

Grand Master

MorganX

Posted
Posted

Hello,

I think there is no story. Teacher made a racist comment, apoligizied, and accepted. That's it. The end.

The only thing possible is a lawsuit for racism. Other than that...

 

There is no such thing, and if there were it would be hard to prove damages.

Grand Master

compl3x

Posted
Posted

Fully applicable.  Both are recognised icons and roles defined by a very specific look.

 

 

lol. Seriously?

 

Anyway, it seems the whole thing has been dealt with:

 

"This situation involves a teacher recently hired by Cleveland High who made -- and admits he made -- a stupid mistake," the director said. "The remark was inappropriate and should not have been made. The teacher feels very badly about what occurred. He self-reported the incident to the principal and has apologized to the student and to the student's parent. Appropriate disciplinary action has been taken."

The boy's family has asked that he be moved out of the teacher's class, and the school has complied, Vesely said.

 

Grand Master

Hum

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Santa Visits SNL
 
Santa drops by the Weekend Update desk to set the record straight on his racial origins. Turns out he's not as white as was previously discussed in the Fox News discussion earlier this week. Mrs. Claus is totally white however.

2:44 mins 14 Dec, 2013

 

http://screen.yahoo.com/popular/weekend-santa-080000339.html

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Grand Master

DocM

Posted
Posted

If you're classifying white as Caucasian, then he was Caucasian. But almost surely not white, nor blue eyed

>

Never argued Jesus was blue eyed etc. My problem is he whole use of the term "white" in this context.

Back to Santa, who derived from Sinterklaas. If you trace Sinterklaas back far enough he has a huge number of parallels to the Norse god Odin.

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