Qualcomm Employee: Apple's 64-Bit A7 Chip 'Hit Us In The Gut'


Recommended Posts

Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/16/qualcomm-employee-64-bit-a7-chip-hit-us-in-the-gut/

 


"The 64-bit Apple chip hit us in the gut," says the Qualcomm employee. "Not just us, but everyone, really. We were slack-jawed, and stunned, and unprepared. It?s not that big a performance difference right now, since most current software won?t benefit. But in Spinal Tap terms it?s like, 32 more, and now everyone wants it."

[...]

"The roadmap for 64-bit was nowhere close to Apple?s, since no one thought it was that essential," the Qualcomm insider says. "The evolution was going to be steady. Sure, it?s neat, it?s the future, but it?s not really essential for conditions now."

But once Apple introduced a 64-bit processor, all the other phone-makers wanted one too. "Apple kicked everybody in the balls with this. It?s being downplayed, but it set off panic in the industry."

Basic psychology of want, not because I need, but because I want. Eg. I want what he has, just cause I don't have it.

 

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

 

This. If anyone argues so much about who does it first who does it right on here when it comes to Apple vs Android, it's me. Just like every release of an iDevice, how many Android devices have you seen try to follow a feature right after? HTC Fingerprint for example. Apple may not have done the fingerprint first, but they did it right which made others attempt to follow.

  • Like 1

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

Pretty much.

 

Sad that when everyone else points out how useless at the moment 64 bit makes in smartphone OSes, they get bashed.

I can see that. Apple touted 64-bit goodness as a major selling point, and relevant or not, if other smartphones don't have 64-bit processors, they'll all be have-nots.

  • Like 2

It is the same old thing again. This situation is like, when you have two balls which look exactly the same and you will need the heavier in the future. Your friend drops the balls from a skyscraper and you are waiting for them on the ground. At this moment, as technology goes, the balls are still falling and there is no difference between them, but when they hit the ground and the software will begin to harness the benefits of 64 bit technology, you will need the heavy stuff.

 

Apple, yet again, tried to flash its E-penis and painted the ball red. Now everyone wants a falling red ball even if it does not matter. How easily distractable customers are. 64 bit is twice as much as 32, it must be soooooooooooo much better!

  • Like 1

It's hard to quantify just how much this will matter in a year or two. When AMD introduced 64-bit desktop CPUs it wasn't "needed" either but it jump started the industry and competition and soon after it was a necessity. 

  • Like 1

Basic psychology of want, not because I need, but because I want. Eg. I want what he has, just cause I don't have it.

Some of that is at play yes, but technology is also a chicken or egg industry...

 

What should come first? Software that needs 64bit or chips that support 64bit? See the conundrum?

 

Usually software waits for the hardware to exist before they start exploiting it. So the sooner we get 64bit hardware the sooner we'll get applications that take advantage of it. We can't accurately say if the advances will be useful or not yet because we don't yet have them...

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

 

Samsung already announced 64bit.  But this is normal no matter what industry you work in.  Someone produces something, others find value and add it to their products.

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

and then Windows Phone will be reviewed poorly for using "only" 32bit processors. :laugh:

This. If anyone argues so much about who does it first who does it right on here when it comes to Apple vs Android, it's me. Just like every release of an iDevice, how many Android devices have you seen try to follow a feature right after? HTC Fingerprint for example. Apple may not have done the fingerprint first, but they did it right which made others attempt to follow.

My Motorola Atrix finger print worked fine.  2 years before the iPhone 5.

  • Like 3

My Motorola Atrix finger print worked fine.  2 years before the iPhone 5.

 

I don't think his point was that Apple came out with a fingerprint reader on their phone first.  His point was that your Motorola Atrix introducing the feature didn't mean squat to other Android manufacturers.  Once Apple released the iPhone 5S with a fingerprint reader there was a sharp 'me too' response almost immediately from the Android OEMs.

  • Like 2

Even quad cores are overkill.  64 bit is getting ready for when phones need more then 4 gigabytes in memory. 

You do realize that 64-bit has more advantages than just memory capacity, right?...

  • Like 1

I'm not an Apple fan at all. I hate their "Walled Garden" and one size fits all designs but I have to hand it to them. I'd love an A7 SoC in a phone I actually liked.

As for those saying 64bit doesn't make a difference it's true there isn't much, if any improvement (in some cases things may even slow down) simply by going 32bit to 64bit. The ARMv8 architecture isn't just an ARMv7 with 64bit tacked on though and it DOES have substantial speed improvements even when running just 32bit software. ARM really took this opportunity to clean up and fine tune their design and it paid off.

Apple really is ahead of the game in SoC design and 64bit OS support (their entire OS and all it's built-in apps have 64bit versions already) so that's a big win for them. They need it though because iOS apps are native code and everything needs to be recompiled to support 64bit. That's going to be a HUGE and long transition for them. In contrast since Android and Windows Phone compile to byte-code unless developers wrote parts in native code (NDK on Android, not sure if Windows Phone has an equivalent) they have to do nothing. The 64bit JIT engine provided by the OS will automatically compile their byte-code application 64bit. This means the migration to 64bit will take much less time on Android/Windows Phone so it's good Apple has a head start to stay competitive (competition is good for us consumers)

I'm not an Apple fan at all. I hate their "Walled Garden" and one size fits all designs but I have to hand it to them. I'd love an A7 SoC in a phone I actually liked.

As for those saying 64bit doesn't make a difference it's true there isn't much, if any improvement (in some cases things may even slow down) simply by going 32bit to 64bit. The ARMv8 architecture isn't just an ARMv7 with 64bit tacked on though and it DOES have substantial speed improvements even when running just 32bit software. ARM really took this opportunity to clean up and fine tune their design and it paid off.

Apple really is ahead of the game in SoC design and 64bit OS support (their entire OS and all it's built-in apps have 64bit versions already) so that's a big win for them. They need it though because iOS apps are native code and everything needs to be recompiled to support 64bit. That's going to be a HUGE and long transition for them. In contrast since Android and Windows Phone compile to byte-code unless developers wrote parts in native code (NDK on Android, not sure if Windows Phone has an equivalent) they have to do nothing. The 64bit JIT engine provided by the OS will automatically compile their byte-code application 64bit. This means the migration to 64bit will take much less time on Android/Windows Phone so it's good Apple has a head start to stay competitive (competition is good for us consumers)

 

I used to think Android apps were less native due to the fragmentations and whatnot. It may be quicker, but it'll still be hard to get it to roll out on all the devices out there like Apple can.

I used to think Android apps were less native due to the fragmentations and whatnot. It may be quicker, but it'll still be hard to get it to roll out on all the devices out there like Apple can.

Android apps are "less native" so the same app can run on multiple different architectures. This is why you can have an app that runs on an ARM based phone as well as an Intel based one (completely different architecture). More new ones are even on the way with Imagination Technologies (people who make the PowerVR GPUs used by Apple and others) having bought MIPS expect to see devices running MIPS/PowerVR SoCs in a 2014/2015. Google does it this way because they don't make their own hardware and they want to be able to use whatever is best at any given moment and not be stuck to one architecture. It works in their favor for the 32 to 64 bit transition as well. The hard work is done in the JIT compiler provided by the OS instead of every app having to be recompiled. That work is typically done by the hardware manufacturers, for example Intel has been checking in a lot of code to the Android codebase to get 64bit working on their processors. Once that is complete any OEM making an android phone with an Intel SoC will use the Intel provided JIT compiler and app developers will have to do nothing. The exception being if the app uses the NDK (native development kit) in which case it has architecture specific native code and the app developer will need to recompile the NDK parts for every architecture they wish to support (just as Apple app devs will have to).

On a side note Android is also making a AOT (Ahead of Time) compiler called ART (Android Run-Time) to replace the Dalvik JIT engine so that apps compile from byte code to native code on install instead of on run. If you are familiar with .Net this is similar to the NGEN tool that .Net has which apps like Paint.Net use on install.

So you are saying that 64-bit is more useful with 512MB memory as a whole, than 32-bit with 2GB memory?

Uh...where are you drawing that conclusion from?  The point is that the amount of memory doesn't matter.

Yes, you can use more than 3.5GB of memory with 64-bit, but that's only one of many advantages.

A major benefit is security.  

 

Educate yourself on why a 64-bit instruction set is very beneficial.  There's a lot of information out there.

Apple leads the way....once again.

I wouldn't say leading, as it would if ATM it were a meaningful advantage, like pointed above, 64 IS the future, but in 2-3 years. Heck we've barely transitioned into 64 bit on desktops.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Posts

    • Removed the blue and underline as you did not post a link. This would also  be considered spamming.
    • Why it's almost impossible to produce a smartphone in the United States by Hamid Ganji If you look at the back of some Apple products, you can see the famous phrase “Designed by Apple in California, Assembled in China.” This phrase appears on products from one of the largest smartphone brands in the United States. These products are designed in the U.S., but their manufacturing takes place in China, India, Vietnam, or even Brazil. But why can’t Apple, as one of the largest American tech companies, produce its iPhones on U.S. soil? The idea for this topic came to me after the Trump Foundation launched a smartphone called the T1 and claimed that it was designed and built with American values in mind. However, this claim did not last long, as it was revealed that Trump’s phone was actually a rebranded HTC U24 Pro, with only a gold case and minor internal component changes. You see? Even a phone that is supposed to represent American values is manufactured in China. With a gross domestic product (GDP) exceeding $32 trillion, the United States is currently the world’s largest economy, while China ranks second with around $20 trillion. On the other hand, the United States is by a wide margin the global leader in various technological fields, and American companies spend hundreds of billions of dollars annually on research and development. From Apple and Google to Microsoft, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and others, American tech and industrial giants lead their foreign competitors in many sectors. The United States also has no shortage of smartphone brands. Apple, Google, and Motorola are among the major brands in the smartphone market, collectively holding a significant share. However, the vast majority of their products are manufactured outside the United States. So why is it that the world’s largest economy, home to the most advanced technology companies and industrial powers, cannot produce a smartphone on its own soil? Let’s explore this question together. Even threats to impose tariffs won’t work After Trump entered the White House as the 47th President of the United States, his administration adopted strict tariff policies. One of these policies was the imposition of a 25% tariff on smartphones manufactured outside the United States. Trump said he “had a little problem” with Apple CEO Tim Cook over producing smartphones outside the U.S. So he thought that threatening a 25% tax on imported phones might force Apple to bring manufacturing back to the United States. “I have long ago informed Tim Cook of Apple that I expect their iPhones that will be sold in the United States of America will be manufactured and built in the United States, not India, or anyplace else,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. Image via The White House Although Apple currently manufactures some of the iPhone’s chips in the United States with TSMC's help, it still shows no willingness to shift full iPhone production to the country. At the time, renowned Apple supply chain analyst Ming-Chi Kuo wrote on X, “In terms of profitability, it’s way better for Apple to take the hit of a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the US market than to move iPhone assembly lines back to the US.” However, manufacturing a smartphone in the United States is not as easy as it might seem, and many technical and economic barriers are involved. The lack of necessary manufacturing hubs There is a clear reason why many companies prefer to manufacture their products in China. China has established itself as the main global manufacturing hub for international companies, and over the past few decades, large contract manufacturers have emerged there, allowing companies like Apple to outsource production. One such example is Foxconn, which also manufactures some Apple products in India. Building the infrastructure required to produce smartphones in the United States would require tens of billions of dollars in new investment. Factories would need to be built, essential manufacturing equipment would have to be installed, and, most importantly, a skilled workforce capable of operating these systems would need to be recruited and trained. The United States currently lacks the core infrastructure needed to manufacture smartphones, and for this reason, many companies prefer to outsource production to Chinese contractors rather than spend tens of billions of dollars to build that infrastructure, which is significantly more economically efficient. Additionally, building such infrastructure in the United States could take up to a decade, ultimately leading to a significant increase in the product's final price for consumers. Shortage of trained labor in the U.S. compared to China Decades of serving as a global manufacturing hub have allowed China to build a massive talent pool in the production sector that is almost unmatched worldwide. Today, if a company chooses to manufacture its products in China, it can be confident that the workers involved in production have years of experience in their respective roles and are capable of producing high-quality goods with minimal errors. Even if we assume that tens of billions of dollars were invested in building smartphone manufacturing infrastructure in the United States, finding skilled workers would remain highly challenging. Apple CEO Tim Cook visiting the iPhone 6 assembly line in China in 2014. Image: Tim Cook on X In a 2015 interview on CBS’s 60 Minutes, Tim Cook said the main reason Apple isn’t producing in the US is a lack of skills. "China put an enormous focus on manufacturing, in what you and I would call vocational kind of skills. The US over time began to stop having as many vocational kinds of skills. I mean you could take every tool and die maker in the United States and probably put them in the room that we're currently sitting in. In China you would have to have multiple football fields,” Cook said. Also, in 2017, at the Fortune Global Forum in Guangzhou, Cook once again emphasized the importance of highly skilled Chinese workers. “China has moved into very advanced manufacturing, so you find in China the intersection of craftsman kind of skill, and sophisticated robotics and the computer science world. That intersection, which is very rare to find anywhere, that kind of skill, is very important to our business because of the precision and quality level that we like. The thing that most people focus on if they’re a foreigner coming to China is the size of the market, and obviously, it’s the biggest market in the world in so many areas. But for us, the number one attraction is the quality of the people,” Apple CEO said. Higher labor costs in the United States Producing almost any product in the United States is more expensive than in many other countries, and one of the main reasons is the higher cost of labor in the U.S. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, median weekly earnings of full-time workers in the United States were $1,235 in the first quarter of 2026. Meanwhile, the average annual salary in China's private sector in 2025 was RMB 71,590 (US$9,961). In many parts of the world, the weekly wage of an American worker is equivalent to several months of income. Another important factor to consider is that in the United States, the workforce capable of working on a smartphone assembly line is highly specialized and therefore commands higher-than-average wages. According to an estimate by Bank of America, producing an iPhone in the U.S. is technically possible, but “iPhone cost can increase 25% purely on higher labor cost in the U.S.” However, this 25% increase applies only if final assembly is performed in the United States while components are still sourced from China or elsewhere. In this case, the price of a base iPhone would rise from $799 to around $1,000. But in another scenario, if Apple were to produce the required components for the iPhone within the United States, production costs could increase by more than 90%. Trump’s dream for a “Made in the USA” iPhone might never come true In a free-market capitalist economy, one of the primary responsibilities of any CEO is to maximize profit. Using Apple as an example, Tim Cook’s role is to maximize the company’s profits so that it can fund research and development for new products and invest in areas such as artificial intelligence, while also keeping shareholders satisfied. Therefore, it is entirely understandable that Apple would choose not to bring its manufacturing back to the United States and instead keep production in countries where labor is cheaper, and products can be manufactured at a lower cost, thereby maximizing its profit margins. What is your opinion about manufacturing smartphones in the United States? If you are an American citizen, would you be willing to pay hundreds of dollars more for a smartphone made domestically in the USA? Let us know in the comments.
    • Cheers everyone for the replies. It's been very useful. 👍
  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      506
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      196
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      153
    4. 4
      Steven P.
      72
    5. 5
      FloatingFatMan
      66
  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!