Qualcomm Employee: Apple's 64-Bit A7 Chip 'Hit Us In The Gut'

[Shadrack]

Source: http://www.macrumors.com/2013/12/16/qualcomm-employee-64-bit-a7-chip-hit-us-in-the-gut/

 

"The 64-bit Apple chip hit us in the gut," says the Qualcomm employee. "Not just us, but everyone, really. We were slack-jawed, and stunned, and unprepared. It?s not that big a performance difference right now, since most current software won?t benefit. But in Spinal Tap terms it?s like, 32 more, and now everyone wants it."

[...]

"The roadmap for 64-bit was nowhere close to Apple?s, since no one thought it was that essential," the Qualcomm insider says. "The evolution was going to be steady. Sure, it?s neat, it?s the future, but it?s not really essential for conditions now."

But once Apple introduced a 64-bit processor, all the other phone-makers wanted one too. "Apple kicked everybody in the balls with this. It?s being downplayed, but it set off panic in the industry."

[fusi0n]

Yeah, I can totally see that.. 

[Draconian Guppy]

Basic psychology of want, not because I need, but because I want. Eg. I want what he has, just cause I don't have it.

[Shadrack]

Basic psychology of want, not because I need, but because I want. Eg. I want what he has, just cause I don't have it.

 

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

[Mr.XXIV]

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

 

This. If anyone argues so much about who does it first who does it right on here when it comes to Apple vs Android, it's me. Just like every release of an iDevice, how many Android devices have you seen try to follow a feature right after? HTC Fingerprint for example. Apple may not have done the fingerprint first, but they did it right which made others attempt to follow.

[Draconian Guppy]

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

Pretty much.

 

Sad that when everyone else points out how useless at the moment 64 bit makes in smartphone OSes, they get bashed.

[Melfster]

Even quad cores are overkill.  64 bit is getting ready for when phones need more then 4 gigabytes in memory. 

[+Majesticmerc MVC]

I can see that. Apple touted 64-bit goodness as a major selling point, and relevant or not, if other smartphones don't have 64-bit processors, they'll all be have-nots.

[drlacus]

It is the same old thing again. This situation is like, when you have two balls which look exactly the same and you will need the heavier in the future. Your friend drops the balls from a skyscraper and you are waiting for them on the ground. At this moment, as technology goes, the balls are still falling and there is no difference between them, but when they hit the ground and the software will begin to harness the benefits of 64 bit technology, you will need the heavy stuff.

 

Apple, yet again, tried to flash its E-penis and painted the ball red. Now everyone wants a falling red ball even if it does not matter. How easily distractable customers are. 64 bit is twice as much as 32, it must be soooooooooooo much better!

[ANON86364]

It's hard to quantify just how much this will matter in a year or two. When AMD introduced 64-bit desktop CPUs it wasn't "needed" either but it jump started the industry and competition and soon after it was a necessity. 

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Basic psychology of want, not because I need, but because I want. Eg. I want what he has, just cause I don't have it.

Some of that is at play yes, but technology is also a chicken or egg industry...

 

What should come first? Software that needs 64bit or chips that support 64bit? See the conundrum?

 

Usually software waits for the hardware to exist before they start exploiting it. So the sooner we get 64bit hardware the sooner we'll get applications that take advantage of it. We can't accurately say if the advances will be useful or not yet because we don't yet have them...

[techbeck]

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

 

Samsung already announced 64bit.  But this is normal no matter what industry you work in.  Someone produces something, others find value and add it to their products.

[BajiRav]

Its like most analyst said: 64-bit makes little-to-no-difference but you can bet money that all the flag ship Android phones next year are going to be sporting it in response to Apple.

and then Windows Phone will be reviewed poorly for using "only" 32bit processors. :laugh:

[Sandor]

and then Windows Phone will be reviewed poorly for using "only" 32bit processors. :laugh:

It'll still run like shi... off a shovel though.

 

Intelligent design > "MORE BIG NUMBERS!"

[firey]

This. If anyone argues so much about who does it first who does it right on here when it comes to Apple vs Android, it's me. Just like every release of an iDevice, how many Android devices have you seen try to follow a feature right after? HTC Fingerprint for example. Apple may not have done the fingerprint first, but they did it right which made others attempt to follow.

My Motorola Atrix finger print worked fine.  2 years before the iPhone 5.

[Shadrack]

My Motorola Atrix finger print worked fine.  2 years before the iPhone 5.

 

I don't think his point was that Apple came out with a fingerprint reader on their phone first.  His point was that your Motorola Atrix introducing the feature didn't mean squat to other Android manufacturers.  Once Apple released the iPhone 5S with a fingerprint reader there was a sharp 'me too' response almost immediately from the Android OEMs.

[Astra.Xtreme]

Even quad cores are overkill.  64 bit is getting ready for when phones need more then 4 gigabytes in memory. 

You do realize that 64-bit has more advantages than just memory capacity, right?...

[+Asmodai MVC]

I'm not an Apple fan at all. I hate their "Walled Garden" and one size fits all designs but I have to hand it to them. I'd love an A7 SoC in a phone I actually liked.

As for those saying 64bit doesn't make a difference it's true there isn't much, if any improvement (in some cases things may even slow down) simply by going 32bit to 64bit. The ARMv8 architecture isn't just an ARMv7 with 64bit tacked on though and it DOES have substantial speed improvements even when running just 32bit software. ARM really took this opportunity to clean up and fine tune their design and it paid off.

Apple really is ahead of the game in SoC design and 64bit OS support (their entire OS and all it's built-in apps have 64bit versions already) so that's a big win for them. They need it though because iOS apps are native code and everything needs to be recompiled to support 64bit. That's going to be a HUGE and long transition for them. In contrast since Android and Windows Phone compile to byte-code unless developers wrote parts in native code (NDK on Android, not sure if Windows Phone has an equivalent) they have to do nothing. The 64bit JIT engine provided by the OS will automatically compile their byte-code application 64bit. This means the migration to 64bit will take much less time on Android/Windows Phone so it's good Apple has a head start to stay competitive (competition is good for us consumers)

[Mr.XXIV]

I'm not an Apple fan at all. I hate their "Walled Garden" and one size fits all designs but I have to hand it to them. I'd love an A7 SoC in a phone I actually liked.

As for those saying 64bit doesn't make a difference it's true there isn't much, if any improvement (in some cases things may even slow down) simply by going 32bit to 64bit. The ARMv8 architecture isn't just an ARMv7 with 64bit tacked on though and it DOES have substantial speed improvements even when running just 32bit software. ARM really took this opportunity to clean up and fine tune their design and it paid off.

Apple really is ahead of the game in SoC design and 64bit OS support (their entire OS and all it's built-in apps have 64bit versions already) so that's a big win for them. They need it though because iOS apps are native code and everything needs to be recompiled to support 64bit. That's going to be a HUGE and long transition for them. In contrast since Android and Windows Phone compile to byte-code unless developers wrote parts in native code (NDK on Android, not sure if Windows Phone has an equivalent) they have to do nothing. The 64bit JIT engine provided by the OS will automatically compile their byte-code application 64bit. This means the migration to 64bit will take much less time on Android/Windows Phone so it's good Apple has a head start to stay competitive (competition is good for us consumers)

 

I used to think Android apps were less native due to the fragmentations and whatnot. It may be quicker, but it'll still be hard to get it to roll out on all the devices out there like Apple can.

[+Asmodai MVC]

I used to think Android apps were less native due to the fragmentations and whatnot. It may be quicker, but it'll still be hard to get it to roll out on all the devices out there like Apple can.

Android apps are "less native" so the same app can run on multiple different architectures. This is why you can have an app that runs on an ARM based phone as well as an Intel based one (completely different architecture). More new ones are even on the way with Imagination Technologies (people who make the PowerVR GPUs used by Apple and others) having bought MIPS expect to see devices running MIPS/PowerVR SoCs in a 2014/2015. Google does it this way because they don't make their own hardware and they want to be able to use whatever is best at any given moment and not be stuck to one architecture. It works in their favor for the 32 to 64 bit transition as well. The hard work is done in the JIT compiler provided by the OS instead of every app having to be recompiled. That work is typically done by the hardware manufacturers, for example Intel has been checking in a lot of code to the Android codebase to get 64bit working on their processors. Once that is complete any OEM making an android phone with an Intel SoC will use the Intel provided JIT compiler and app developers will have to do nothing. The exception being if the app uses the NDK (native development kit) in which case it has architecture specific native code and the app developer will need to recompile the NDK parts for every architecture they wish to support (just as Apple app devs will have to).

On a side note Android is also making a AOT (Ahead of Time) compiler called ART (Android Run-Time) to replace the Dalvik JIT engine so that apps compile from byte code to native code on install instead of on run. If you are familiar with .Net this is similar to the NGEN tool that .Net has which apps like Paint.Net use on install.

[Richteralan]

You do realize that 64-bit has more advantages than just memory capacity, right?...

So you are saying that 64-bit is more useful with 512MB memory as a whole, than 32-bit with 2GB memory?

[winrez]

My guess is by the time 64bit Apps are mainstream the first gen with the 64bit CPU will be forced obsolete by Apple

[Astra.Xtreme]

So you are saying that 64-bit is more useful with 512MB memory as a whole, than 32-bit with 2GB memory?

Uh...where are you drawing that conclusion from?  The point is that the amount of memory doesn't matter.

Yes, you can use more than 3.5GB of memory with 64-bit, but that's only one of many advantages.

A major benefit is security.  

 

Educate yourself on why a 64-bit instruction set is very beneficial.  There's a lot of information out there.

[Growled Member]

Apple leads the way....once again.

[Draconian Guppy]

Apple leads the way....once again.

I wouldn't say leading, as it would if ATM it were a meaningful advantage, like pointed above, 64 IS the future, but in 2-3 years. Heck we've barely transitioned into 64 bit on desktops.