Microsoft employees reportedly call Windows 8

[Pulagatha]

 

This was posted by KrisCraig on Reddit and I think it sums up the situation perfectly:

 

"This isn't new. I worked at Microsoft back in 2010 when Windows 8 was still in early development. I wasn't directly involved with the project but I saw quite a few specs and overheard a lot of hallway conversations about what they were going for. My coworkers and I all thought this release was a disaster waiting to happen.

I actually assumed that the ugly Skittles-colored square boxes wouldn't look that way in the final production version. I was wrong. If anything, they got even uglier.

Basically, at least as far as I could tell, nobody outside of the Windows team and the execs liked how Windows 8 was turning-out. There were many arguments, some heated, in the halls. The Windows folks would just look down their noses at the rest of us and say we didn't understand how OS design works. I was involved with some testing on one of the initial revisions. I remember saying the only thing I liked about it was the fact that they used 2008 R2 as a base.

Remember that ad campaign they ran a few years ago with the "Windows 7 was my idea!" commercials? We ended-up having a running joke in my department: "Windows 8 was NOT my idea!"

EDIT: In all fairness, I was just an a- grunt working in one of their black sheep open source divisions, so I only caught a relatively small glimpse of what was going on. But from what I did see and hear, I don't recall a single engineer who wasn't on the Windows team having anything positive to say about Windows 8, aside from some advantages inherited from 2008 R2."

[trooper11]

To be clear, I was saying that it it isn't a fair assessment to just say all prior windows versions required help and to say "Win 8 is no different" in that regard, because that doesn't acknowledge that there are important differences in the amount of required help. If you are trying to argue semantics about your exact wording, please don't.

Not arguing semantics, just wanted to be clear.

 

XP is not an officially supported OS for most modern PC hardware though. It's officially supported and updated by MS for issues that crop up on supported hardware. You can't very well install XP on someones machine if the hardware doesn't have drivers that support it so it's a scenario where'd you have to tell the user, well this laptop or XYZ doesn't run XP.

Yep, that is very true, but people do still use it and swear by it, even if they are limited regarding new hardware that supports it.

 

A guided demo is cool if it isn't a guided demo with the intent of just evangelizing Win8. It's one thing to show the user the ropes and let them see if they like it, and another to say, well are you sure you don't want to use Win8, look at this feature, and this feature, you can't do that with the older version! That's not organic and it's just pushing an agenda if that's what is happening. I'm sure that's what happens at the MS store ;-)

I think a proper demo would include showing customers what new features are all about, how else can the customer make an informed decision. I'm not talking about the guys that come in and have no interest what so ever in looking at anything Win 8, I'm talking about the average joe that has little knowledge of Win 8 and maybe only has the passing comments heard from other people or on the radio. Its important they hear about features they may have never even thought would be useful to them or didn't know were there. That's different than trying to shove things down their throat.

I think what your getting at is that if someone doesn't want 8 after you show them what is new and changed, then move on. No argument there.

[Order_66]

I think a proper demo would include showing customers what new features are all about, how else can the customer make an informed decision.

 

 

As soon as most customers see that ugly tile interface they quickly make an informed decision.

[trooper11]

As soon as most customers see that ugly tile interface they quickly make an informed decision.

Yeah sure, that's all there is to it.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

As soon as most customers see that ugly tile interface they quickly make an informed decision.

My mother liked that ugly tile interface. She got hung up/confused on the disjointness between that and the desktop.

[trooper11]

My mother liked that ugly tile interface. She got hung up/confused on the disjointness between that and the desktop.

Just proves that everyone is different and trying to apply one standard to everyone is not a great idea.

[webdev511]

At least it didn't take 3 years for use to see visible fixes to Windows 8. When I see charts with OS market shares, I am amazed at the number of Windows 8 installs that haven't upgraded to 8.1.

[Anibal P]

I can't believe the efforts people put into putting Win 8 down, you all are wasting your time, get with it, this is the future of Windows, the sooner you get over whatever childish "issue" you have with it and embrace the changes the faster MS can work towards refining Windows and Metro, because all I've seen are childish complaints about it, no real problems that can't be overcome by being a true computer person and dealing with it, and no I won't be back so flame away, don't care, get over yourselves Win 8 is not bad and neither is Metro 

[dr_crabman]

I would call Paul Thurrott the Windows ME of tech journalists.

[snaphat (Myles Landwehr) Member]

I can't believe the efforts people put into putting Win 8 down, you all are wasting your time, get with it, this is the future of Windows, the sooner you get over whatever childish "issue" you have with it and embrace the changes the faster MS can work towards refining Windows and Metro, because all I've seen are childish complaints about it, no real problems that can't be overcome by being a true computer person and dealing with it, and no I won't be back so flame away, don't care, get over yourselves Win 8 is not bad and neither is Metro 

Your post isn't any different from the opposite spectrum: It's just a polarized view point and not a thoughtful analysis of the topic at hand  :laugh:

[Arachno 1D]

I can't believe the efforts people put into putting Win 8 down, you all are wasting your time, get with it, this is the future of Windows, the sooner you get over whatever childish "issue" you have with it and embrace the changes the faster MS can work towards refining Windows and Metro, because all I've seen are childish complaints about it, no real problems that can't be overcome by being a true computer person and dealing with it, and no I won't be back so flame away, don't care, get over yourselves Win 8 is not bad and neither is Metro 

A very inciteful and scientific approach to any dejectors you have there you should have been a Politician

[benthebear]

I can't believe the efforts people put into putting Win 8 down, you all are wasting your time, get with it, this is the future of Windows, the sooner you get over whatever childish "issue" you have with it and embrace the changes the faster MS can work towards refining Windows and Metro, because all I've seen are childish complaints about it, no real problems that can't be overcome by being a true computer person and dealing with it, and no I won't be back so flame away, don't care, get over yourselves Win 8 is not bad and neither is Metro 

 

The ol, "bend over and take it attitude," I've come to love about you. Says he doesn't care, but cares enough to constantly put down others who don't share the same view. There's so much anger coming from you. I'm going to e-mail you a hug. Is that possible? Do we have that technology yet?

 

In all seriousness, Windows 8 is a major transition that isn't 100% perfect. There has been plenty of honest feedback given to Microsoft from the people who aren't fond of it. The people with, "childish complaints," as you refer to them. Microsoft is taking that feedback to help make their product better. They have to. They actually have competition now in this post-PC word. That's what Windows 8.1 tried to address. Start button and all. But I'm going to remember this post, so that the next time we see you spout off with a different opinion about something I can tell you to follow your own advice and just deal with it.  

[Slammers]

Would never go back to Windows 7 after seeing how much snappier and smoother Windows 8 is. Although it did take me an hour or 2 to get used to 8, I guess that could be an annoyance for some people. 

[Snake89]

I knew this was going to happen once MS showed off the metroUI for the first time back in early 2012. So this comes to me as no shocker at all.

[FloatingFatMan]

If they hadn't forced desktop users into the ModernUI, this wouldn't have happened.  There's nothing really -wrong- with Windows 8 per se, it's just the way MS treated PC owners over the desktop/start menu issues that's caused all these problems.

[DConnell Member]

As I recall Windows 95 was a huge success when it came out. I like Windows 3.1 in a nostalgic sort of way but face it, the Program Manager shell sucked.

 

I might still be using Program Manager today if it were offered. The Start Menu was a huge step backward in terms of user-friendliess and organization. Progman was included in 95 and 98, but that fact was never really announced. I only just recently learned of it, in fact. Believe me, if I had known, I wouldn't have bothered with the exercise in masochism that was the Start Menu.

 

For me the best feature of Windows 8 is the removal of the Menu. Metro is nice, the apps are useful, 8's performance is fantastic and I love the excellent backward compatibility with desktop programs. But the best element is no more g-d Start Menu.

 

Although the Start Screen is also quite good, so it would be a toss-up which I'd use.

true that... 8 is the new Vista

 

An experimental release which provides the basis for awesomeness to come? That works . ..

[vcfan]

The ol, "bend over and take it attitude," I've come to love about you. Says he doesn't care, but cares enough to constantly put down others who don't share the same view. There's so much anger coming from you. I'm going to e-mail you a hug. Is that possible? Do we have that technology yet?

 

no, but you can tweet a coffee

https://www.starbucks.com/tweet-a-coffee

[+Warwagon MVC]

The ol, "bend over and take it attitude," I've come to love about you. Says he doesn't care, but cares enough to constantly put down others who don't share the same view. There's so much anger coming from you. I'm going to e-mail you a hug. Is that possible? Do we have that technology yet?

 

I think it's "someones" second account   ...

[Torolol]

Progman provided by win95 are not as good, because its minimize into a non-existent taskbar, yeah theres no taskbar if you use program as default shell.

So when you try to minimize a running program, you'll have non-move "bar" at bottom of screen instead of minimized icon.

Better solution is to normal explorer and create a shortcut to "Start Menu\Program" folder and adjust view to icon.

That what i was do when i first migrated into win95.

But do take note that non-microsoft program to change default shell in win9x era, were a lot less popular compared to

how popular such programs (startisback, start8, classic shell, etc..) are in current win8x days.

Thats probably signs that Microsoft did doing something wrong in win8x.

[Lord Method Man]

 

Basically, at least as far as I could tell, nobody outside of the Windows team and the execs liked how Windows 8 was turning-out. There were many arguments, some heated, in the halls. The Windows folks would just look down their noses at the rest of us and say we didn't understand how OS design works. I was involved with some testing on one of the initial revisions. I remember saying the only thing I liked about it was the fact that they used 2008 R2 as a base.

 

 

 

 

Now doesn't that sound damned familiar.

[WhatTheSchmidt]

The ol, "bend over and take it attitude," I've come to love about you. Says he doesn't care, but cares enough to constantly put down others who don't share the same view. There's so much anger coming from you. I'm going to e-mail you a hug. Is that possible? Do we have that technology yet?  

 

Noted for later.

[DConnell Member]

Progman provided by win95 are not as good, because its minimize into a non-existent taskbar, yeah theres no taskbar if you use program as default shell.

So when you try to minimize a running program, you'll have non-move "bar" at bottom of screen instead of minimized icon.

Better solution is to normal explorer and create a shortcut to "Start Menu\Program" folder and adjust view to icon.

That what i was do when i first migrated into win95.

But do take note that non-microsoft program to change default shell in win9x era, were a lot less popular compared to

how popular such programs (startisback, start8, classic shell, etc..) are in current win8x days.

Thats probably signs that Microsoft did doing something wrong in win8x.

 

The shell replacements were also a lot more extensive, and in my experience, less stable than the relatively small, very stable menu tools. They required more effort to use than the menu replacement tools as well.

 

I tried lots of shell replacements, and the last one that I was actually satisfied with was Norton Desktop for Windows 3.x. The rest were just too buggy and/or slow, at least on my systems. Again, if I'd known about Progman being included, I would never have suffered with the Menu. Not advertising its inclusion then is just as bad as the total elimination of the Menu now IMO.

 

There have always been people unsatisfied with the default interface in Windows. I just happen to not be one of them for the first time in 18 years.

[Nick H. Supervisor]

I might not like Metro, but that isn't to say that Windows 8 is the new Vista. Although they do mention that it's in relation to how it didn't achieve the goals they were expecting; if that means they are referring to the adoption rate or mixed feedback that both operating systems had then I can understand their point a bit better. I still think it's silly to compare the two, though.

[strotee]

Knowing that Win 9 will come out in spring 2015 (~15 months from now) and being as objective as possible, when do we label Win 8 as a flop (if not already)?

[Order_66]

when do we label Win 8 as a flop (if not already)?

 

 

Windows 8 was already a total failure before it was even released.