Not impressed with Surface 2

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Most likely he got a grey box replacement, not a repaired one and thus it came from the factory and shouldn't need to be tested.

Most likely he has no consumer right to have it refunded at this point anyway.

Every product is supposed to be tested... There should be a QA arm at the end of the MS manufacturing line testing each product before it is boxed. Repaired devices are supposed to also undergo testing to be sure they are in fact repaired. There is no real excuse for this TBH.

Depends on where he lives. Some states in the US mandate a min. of 30 days to return the item some states have no set number (but most stores offer 14-60 days). He may also have return protection from his credit card company offering him an option. He may live in the EU where they have stronger consumer protection laws. There isn't enough information to say he has no recourse to get his money back.

[vcfan]

Pay more and get an iPad.

yup

 

An iPad Air spontaneously combusted this week in a Vodafon store in Canberra, Australia, filling the store with smoke and sending a continuous stream of sparks flying from the charging port of the device. The store was evacuated, the fire brigade was called, and the spectacular flaming tablet was officially extinguished. No one was injured in the fireworks. The iPad Air, however, could not be resuscitated.

http://www.slashgear.com/ipad-air-explodes-faulty-overcharge-protection-circuit-suspected-09304836/

[HawkMan]

Every product is supposed to be tested... There should be a QA arm at the end of the MS manufacturing line testing each product before it is boxed. Repaired devices are supposed to also undergo testing to be sure they are in fact repaired. There is no real excuse for this TBH.

Depends on where he lives. Some states in the US mandate a min. of 30 days to return the item some states have no set number (but most stores offer 14-60 days). He may also have return protection from his credit card company offering him an option. He may live in the EU where they have stronger consumer protection laws. There isn't enough information to say he has no recourse to get his money back.

 

When devices leave the factory they undergo a standardized test, if this test was flawless, then there would never be sold electronics with issues. unforutnately problems can occur that don't show up on automated tests or that show up later due to components not entirely stuck that lose in transport or climate changes causing small faults that don't cause a problem to become big breaks that cause problems. 

 

sure in a fantasy dream world, your scenario would be awesome, in the real world, ###### happens. 

[+LogicalApex MVC]

When devices leave the factory they undergo a standardized test, if this test was flawless, then there would never be sold electronics with issues. unforutnately problems can occur that don't show up on automated tests or that show up later due to components not entirely stuck that lose in transport or climate changes causing small faults that don't cause a problem to become big breaks that cause problems. 

 

sure in a fantasy dream world, your scenario would be awesome, in the real world, **** happens.

The defect rates should be very low. I never implied there shouldn't be any... The OP is complaining not because he got an initial bad product (which could be chalked up to a bad batch), but that he received two bad products with one being an RMA. You're essentially arguing that the user should never get upset that they received a broken product and instead just go "**** happens". You're not supposed to have to "deal with it" if you've spent your money, period.

Imagine a MS Software Engineer who just got hired and he spews out some garbage quality code. This Engineer then fails to come to work for 2 weeks. He stumbles in on week 3 and starts spewing out some more garbage code. What do you think the response would be from MS? To say "Oh he must have had some traumatic life event. Lets get him over to counseling and when he is cleared he can start working again" or "Lets see what caused his behavior we want to keep him employed"... No, they would have fired him 1 day into his 2 week absence and washed their hands of it.

If these corporations won't accept "**** happens" with their own money. I'm not going to accept that with mine. Too many corporate apologists lately.

[Max Norris]

Eh had the exact same thing happen with a Kindle Fire. First one was DOA, second had some weird screen "ghosting" issues, third time was the charm.  Would still recommend the thing to others, doesn't take being a "corporate apologist" to realize that it's not a perfect world and it does happen from time to time.  But if anyone knows of a manufacturer with a 100% perfect track record, would certainly love to hear of it.

[simplezz]

Should have bought a Pro model like mentioned earlier, the base surface is not meant for any serious work, it's a locked down toy

 

So customers paying $300+ for a tablet should expect these kinds of hardware problems? That's a pretty lame excuse there.

 

MethodMan, for that same price you can get a Nexus 10, which in my opinion is one of the best tablets out there.

 

Or you want to save yourself a load of cash, get a cheap one from Ebay. I've had a few of them and for the price they're great. You can get things like this these days for under a ?100. Not the greatest specs, but in terms of bang for buck, it's pretty good.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

You're essentially arguing that the user should never get upset that they received a broken product and instead just go "**** happens". 

 

No One's arguing anything of the sort Of course you're entitled to be angry when you're extremely unlucky and receive two bad products. What we're arguing is that it's unfair and unwarranted to call the whole line "junk" in an emotional outburst just because of a sample size of TWO. It's clear the vast majority of Surface 2 owners do not have these problems.

 

I had issues with my orginal surface, similar to the OP in fact as I kept getting graphical corruption and would sometimes fail to turn on.  It was sent back, and the replacement developed similar issues, it too was sent back. Now I have a fully working Surface that doesn't have these problems. S*** happens, but I'm level headed enough to realise it was just an unlucky occurence.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

Eh had the exact same thing happen with a Kindle Fire. First one was DOA, second had some weird screen "ghosting" issues, third time was the charm.  Would still recommend the thing to others, doesn't take being a "corporate apologist" to realize that it's not a perfect world and it does happen from time to time.  But if anyone knows of a manufacturer with a 100% perfect track record, would certainly love to hear of it.

My point isn't that you shouldn't be able to do this. That you shouldn't be able to play round robin with the manufacturer for replacements if you want to. It is that to place the fault on the consumer if they chose not to do this is wrong.

But I'm not as generous as you. I usually give a company one shot. I'm kind enough to allow RMAs (depending on how painful the replacement process is), but I rarely go beyond 1 RMA in a short period like the OP is dealing with. I'd usually blacklist the product or brand at that point.

I work very hard for my money. If I have to spend hours on the phone getting an RMA, shipping it out, waiting for the replacement, testing it on arrival... Only to have to repeat that process again. For most devices my opportunity costs will be near the cost of the device. Not worth it.

No one is perfect, but perfection is what we pay for.

No One's arguing anything of the sort Of course you're entitled to be angry when you're extremely unlucky and receive two bad products. What we're arguing is that it's unfair and unwarranted to call the whole line "junk" in an emotional outburst just because of a sample size of TWO. It's clear the vast majority of Surface 2 owners do not have these problems.

I had issues with my orginal surface, similar to the OP in fact as I kept getting graphical corruption and would sometimes fail to turn on. It was sent back, and the replacement developed similar issues, it too was sent back. Now I have a fully working Surface that doesn't have these problems. S*** happens, but I'm level headed enough to realise it was just an unlucky occurence.

How is that not fair? Are we supposed to buy every single product off the shelves to determine the statistical failure rate? Only when that statistically valid failure rate crosses some industry approved number are we able to then "write the product line off"? As that sounds absurd to me.

Most people here aren't Bill Gates. As such, spending $500 on a device is a lot of money! For most people that is 2 or 3 days of their wages to afford it in the first place (could be as high as 2 weeks on Min Wage in the US). It is only fair that people write the whole product line off based on their limited anecdotal experience. They are investing significant amounts of their money.

[Max Norris]

I work very hard for my money. If I have to spend hours on the phone getting an RMA, shipping it out, waiting for the replacement, testing it on arrival... Only to have to repeat that process again. For most devices my opportunity costs will be near the cost of the device. Not worth it.

Glad I stuck with it to be honest.. yea it sucked, but in the end I'm still using the thing daily and very happy with the product.  But again, I've yet to find a manufacturer with a 100% track record.. it doesn't exist, as long as the manufacturer/distributor makes it right in the end, that's what's important.   PC components especially, I've had many DOA's over the past 30 years or so, if I eliminated every manufacturer that sent me more than one dead product I'd have nothing left to build with.

[+Ryster Subscriber²]

How is that not fair? Are we supposed to buy every single product off the shelves to determine the statistical failure rate? Only when that statistically valid failure rate crosses some industry approved number are we able to then "write the product line off"? As that sounds absurd to me.

 

No, what is absurd is expecting every human designed and often manufactured device of a complex nature to have a 0% failure rate, and calling the whole product range junk when it doesn't meet that unattainable "zero" failure rate.  We are human, humans make mistakes and defects happen during manufacturing, whether that's by human hands, or by robots. This is just a fact of life, getting angry about it is pointless and futile.

 

Additionally, nobody is saying he should just write off the $500. Sure it sucks for him to be so unlucky with the percentages, but he will end up with a working device. All he has to pay to resolve this is a little time and patience.  I'd be willing to be that all tablets have a similar failure rate, it's just that most people aren't unlucky enough to have two in a row like the OP and myself.

[+LogicalApex MVC]

No, what is absurd is expecting every human designed and often manufactured device of a complex nature to have a 0% failure rate, and calling the whole product range junk when it doesn't meet that unattainable "zero" failure rate.  We are human, humans make mistakes and defects happen during manufacturing, whether that's by human hands, or by robots. This is just a fact of life, getting angry about it is pointless and futile.

 

Additionally, nobody is saying he should just write off the $500. Sure it sucks for him to be so unlucky with the percentages, but he will end up with a working device. All he has to pay to resolve this is a little time and patience.  I'd be willing to be that all tablets have a similar failure rate, it's just that most people aren't unlucky enough to have two in a row like the OP and myself.

No, it isn't absurd to expect the item you purchase to perform as intended. This is the reason stores and banks offer return policies on items you purchase and there are laws protecting consumers. It is the job of the manufacturer to deal with their defect rates not the consumer. Mistakes happen. I just won't pay for them with my money.

Actually, you are saying he should just write it off. Even more interesting, you're saying he should persevere until he gets a working device. Eventually he will be happy and he just has to invest more time (which costs money by the way) and energy into making it so. I wouldn't do that, but to each his own.

I wouldn't throw good money after bad.

If it happened to me I would write the Surface 2 off. I might consider a Surface 3 or 4 and hope they have improved their quality, but that is as far as I would go. Clearly, others are willing to keep at it hopeful that someday they will be happy.

[HawkMan]

The defect rates should be very low. I never implied there shouldn't be any... The OP is complaining not because he got an initial bad product (which could be chalked up to a bad batch), but that he received two bad products with one being an RMA. You're essentially arguing that the user should never get upset that they received a broken product and instead just go "**** happens". You're not supposed to have to "deal with it" if you've spent your money, period.

Imagine a MS Software Engineer who just got hired and he spews out some garbage quality code. This Engineer then fails to come to work for 2 weeks. He stumbles in on week 3 and starts spewing out some more garbage code. What do you think the response would be from MS? To say "Oh he must have had some traumatic life event. Lets get him over to counseling and when he is cleared he can start working again" or "Lets see what caused his behavior we want to keep him employed"... No, they would have fired him 1 day into his 2 week absence and washed their hands of it.

If these corporations won't accept "**** happens" with their own money. I'm not going to accept that with mine. Too many corporate apologists lately.

 

I didn't say he shouldn't be upset, in fatc I said I would be so myself, but that doesn't make the product junk. it just makes him extremely unlucky, it also makes the ods of him getting another dud pretty much astronomical. 

 

And again, I doubt at this point consumer rights will let him return it for a refund. even over here it's much to late for that with our very strict consumer protection laws. 

[FloatingFatMan]

And again, I doubt at this point consumer rights will let him return it for a refund. even over here it's much to late for that with our very strict consumer protection laws. 

 

EU laws allow for a full refund within up to 2 years if they can't provide a reliable replacement.

[HawkMan]

EU laws allow for a full refund within up to 2 years if they can't provide a reliable replacement.

 

Yeah, and they still have time for that. Norway has some of the most consumer friendly version of those laws, and here the law is that, the manufacturer has 3 attempts to fix the device IF it still fails with the same fault AFTER that a 4th time, then he's entitled to a new device or refund. 

 

so as I said, at this point in time he's unlikely to be entitled to a refund. 

[FloatingFatMan]

Yeah, and they still have time for that. Norway has some of the most consumer friendly version of those laws, and here the law is that, the manufacturer has 3 attempts to fix the device IF it still fails with the same fault AFTER that a 4th time, then he's entitled to a new device or refund. 

 

so as I said, at this point in time he's unlikely to be entitled to a refund. 

 

Well, US consumer laws are rather different, and much weaker.

[fusi0n]

Another Neowin Flameware

[jesseinsf]

He probably dropped it. People lie all the time when they don't want to admit their mistakes.

[HawkMan]

Well, US consumer laws are rather different, and much weaker.

 

and as such, it seems unlikely he has any cause for a refund now.

[Martog]

Getting faulty electronics is never fun, especially two in a row of the same things.  I had in my hands, no less than 6 or 7 ATI All In One Wonder 9700 Pro's before I ended up upgrading, at least two got sent back to Newegg right away (first one had a cap broken off on it).  Yeah it sucks but I kept going at it, even bought other ATI cards in the future, though the last was a pair of Radeon 4850's that had Crossfire issues every time I updated the driver, been kind of shy of ATI/AMD GPU's since then.

 

Give them another try, sounds like this most recent one has a bad SSD in it.

And as far as testing electronics, I'm sure they all pass some sort of basic tests, some maybe more intensive, but these tests don't always reveal a problem that develops a short while after actual usage.

[123456789A]

This used to happen with the NES, but kids didn't complain about it. Have you tried blowing in your Surface?

[metallithrax]

I have the same problem with our cheaper tablet.  Already had to take one back to Maplins and got it replaced.  Now the replacement has the same problem - charger not working and the micro usb is very loose and needs to be held in place to charge.  This one will probably be going back shortly.

[n_K]

He probably dropped it. People lie all the time when they don't want to admit their mistakes.

The issue from the first post is quite obviously a faulty GPU or GPU memory, dropping a tablet won't cause the GPU to fail. Crack the screen sure.

And again, the next issue, 'powerpoint - bad image' is indicative of faulty flash, dropping a tablet won't mess up the flash (which is the beauty with such memory devices).

 

Please don't leave stupid comments that aren't even remotely relevant to the issues the OP is having.

[a1ien]

It's a big mistake to send it back, unless you want a refurbished one. If you really want to give the device a chance, you should return it for a refund and buy another one.

 

If you purchased it during or after the holidays, it's probably still returnable. Get rid of that thing :p

[TruckWEB]

Never had any problem with my Surface 2, got it the day it was out...

 

Working as it should.  I wish I had waited for the Pro, but it's all good.

[JaredFrost]

I was very impressed with the Surface 2 I tested, now this Dell Venue 11 Pro (7130) I am testing, this thing has been annoying as hell, refusing to come out of sleep and when it does decide to come out of sleep, it'll crash four times, random lockups and more random crashing, on top of that it's loud as hell, which is a shame, because it has the least obnoxious looking docking station out of the two.

 

But the Surface 2, despite not really doing what I needed, the stuff it did do it did very well, and the keyboard cover is nice, other tablets need to rip that off.