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Another thing for me, as much as the misterxmedia blog is full of s*** and provides hours of humorous reads. There's one picture which really strikes my attention:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105328/105328_original.png

 

I'm not confident with talking silicon but to me, that shows signs that the chip is stacked. Along with:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105558/105558_original.jpg

 

That is the A6 which is Apples chip which is stacked and shows the same signs. If anyone is good with silicon here can you expand on it? I'd be looking forward to seeing if there is any of this extremely bizarre "secret sauce" which he rants on about.

 

Multi-layered / stacked silicon is nothing new. Your PC's motherboard for example - have been multi-layered for years.

Thats a very cherry picked, incomplete list you have there. There are games already out that aren't even on your list, and you list random games that aren't out yet. But not all of them.

 

True. I forgot a couple. New ones added in bold. The only one that we can't find the resolution for is Xbox One Fitness, so I left that off. Feel free to prove my comment wrong that most of the games on the Xbox One are at 1080p. We wait with baited breath.

 

Oh, it's a majority. I have a feeling people are just burying their heads, or have fuzzy math....

 

720p - Battlefield 4
720p - Call of Duty Ghosts
720p - Dead Rising
720p - Killer Instinct
720p - Metal Gear Solid V Ground Zeroes
720p - Witcher 3
720p - Rayman Legends
 
792p - Titanfall Beta
 
900p - Assassin's Creed 4
900p - Ryse
900p - Thief
900p - Plants vs. Zombies
 
960p - Watchdogs
 
1080p - Madden 25
1080p - Crimson Dragon
1080p - Max The Curse of Brotherhood
1080p - FIFA 14
1080p - Forza 5
1080p - NBA 2K14
1080p - Dying Light
1080p - EA UFC
1080p - Kinect Sports Rivals
1080p - Halo 5
1080p - Murdered Soul Suspect
1080p - Need for Speed Rivals
1080p - Skylanders Swapforce
1080p - Wolfenstein
1080p - Powerstar Golf
1080p - NBA Live
1080p - Lego Marvel Superheroes
1080p - Alien Isolation
1080p - Project Spark
1080p - zoo Tycoon
1080p - Halo Spartan Assault
1080p - Lococycle
1080p - Lego Movie Video Game
1080p - Strider
1080p - Peggle 2
1080p - Angry Birds Star Wars
1080p - Zumba
1080p - Fighter Within
 

 

Hope this helps.

The framerate and resolution aren't the only factors in image quality. You have draw distance, texture quality, anti-aliasing, polygon counts, etc. The point being that even if Microsoft address the substantial performance issues currently afflicting the XB1 it won't suddenly level the playing field. Also, the performance difference is likely to become a factor further into the lifecycle of the consoles when games are pushing the hardware to the max. Don't forget that it was severals years into the lifecycle of the X360 and PS3 that games started to drop the resolution to maintain performance with high profile games like GTAIV and Halo 3.

 

It's great that Microsoft is looking to bring DX12 to the XB1 and improve performance. What's concerning is the impact that will have on GPU development, which is primarily based around PC.

 

I don't think you'll have to worry honestly, if Microsoft continues on as they have with DirectX recently the API will be locked to the latest version of Windows and possibly backported to 8.1 at most. (if that)

 

That will limit them to a 12% or less market penetration, 20% if there was suddenly a mass upgrade exodus from 8.0 to 8.1. For a developer, that is nowhere close to enough to justify meaningful investment in support.

 

OpenGL offers better performance today and already has broader platform support for newer technologies on Windows alone. Why waste time on a fragmented DirectX?

I don't think you'll have to worry honestly, if Microsoft continues on as they have with DirectX recently the API will be locked to the latest version of Windows and possibly backported to 8.1 at most. (if that)

 

That will limit them to a 12% or less market penetration, 20% if there was suddenly a mass upgrade exodus from 8.0 to 8.1. For a developer, that is nowhere close to enough to justify meaningful investment in support.

 

OpenGL offers better performance today and already has broader platform support for newer technologies on Windows alone. Why waste time on a fragmented DirectX?

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

Slightly confused why people believe DX12 will be a huge improvement for Xbone. Isn't DX11.x closer to the metal on the console than PC? Isn't that the point of consoles having fixed hardware? We don't have any numbers yet, but whatever they'll be, you're not going to see improvement on Xbone to the same extent as PC.

Slightly confused why people believe DX12 will be a huge improvement for Xbone. Isn't DX11.x closer to the metal on the console than PC? Isn't that the point of consoles having fixed hardware? We don't have any numbers yet, but whatever they'll be, you're not going to see improvement on Xbone to the same extent as PC.

Microsoft wouldn't release DirectX 12 for Xbox One if there wasn't any improvements to be made. It would be counter productive, and would be billions lost in R&D.

  • Like 2

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

 

I don't think they will hold back DX12 to Windows 8/8.1. I think people developed that notion with the whole Vista and DirectX 10 thing. That was justified by the driver model change between XP and Vista. As far as I remember, all releases since then have been back ported within reasonable time limit.

Why waste time on a new renderer when their existing DX10/11 one works fine for those users?  Supporting DX12 is not likely to be a full rewrite.

 

For all you know DirectX 12 could be a full rewrite, but it doesn't matter either way. It's not the rewriting that is relevant, it's the number of customers you can sell that rewrite to.

 

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

 

NVidia are probably smart enough to sit back and watch what happens to Mantle at this point. If it gets put up for adoption as a standard then NVidia will likely pounce, if it doesn't - Mantle will probably end up fading out in favour of new revisions of OpenGL and extensions from both AMD and NVidia.

 

I don't think they will hold back DX12 to Windows 8/8.1. I think people developed that notion with the whole Vista and DirectX 10 thing. That was justified by the driver model change between XP and Vista. As far as I remember, all releases since then have been back ported within reasonable time limit.

 

DirectX 11.1 and 11.2 are artificially restricted to 8.0 and 8.1 respectively.

Microsoft wouldn't release DirectX 12 for Xbox One if there wasn't any improvements to be made. It would be counter productive, and would be billions lost in R&D.

Not sure why the amount of improvement on the Xbone is the be all and end all of DX12.  DX12 will also be released on windows pc's and will likely have the same if not better improvements.  Just because it doesn't send the console into orbit doesn't mean it would be billions lost in R&D.

Consoles and the DX on consoles are already bare metal, more or less compared to on PC. and is what Mantle is on the PC, even more so in some ways, but both ways and all that. 

 

However DX12 which we know nothing about except it's called DX12 and is now officially revealed and being made/released will also have more than just performance functions added to it. As such it makes sense for MS to have directX parity between the Xbox One and PC to ease game development for developers and maintain cross platform functionality, Also with the One effectively having a 8 core it makes little sense not to. 

 

That said, new functions and cross platform parity is likely not the only reasons, as upgrading DX can significantly increase performance as well, as has been demonstrated in the past. it can also open up new tools and methods for developers to use all the custom work on the APU combined with the new SDK that's coming for the One to allow devs to make use of the powerful functions of the APU without specialized coding.

 

So we're likely to see increased performance and increased quality. and due to it being a cross platform release, you WILL see PC games taking advantage of it right from the get go or nearly so since they'll use the code they already did for the xbox. as opposed to the largely ignored DX versions on the PC. 

For all you know DirectX 12 could be a full rewrite, but it doesn't matter either way. It's not the rewriting that is relevant, it's the number of customers you can sell that rewrite to.

MS knows how hard it was to get people to jump from DX9 in the first place, they're not likely to do that again.

 

But true that neither of us can say for sure.

Not sure why the amount of improvement on the Xbone is the be all and end all of DX12.  DX12 will also be released on windows pc's and will likely have the same if not better improvements.  Just because it doesn't send the console into orbit doesn't mean it would be billions lost in R&D.

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

What makes you think there will be no improvements?  I don't see anyone in this thread saying that?

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

 

Well besides the point that it wouldn't cost billions and that the consoles uses the windows 8 core so it's not that expensive to expand it to the consoles anyway, they would release it for the xbox just for the cross platform parity. As then since all the xbox one developers would be developing DX12 games, they would also release DX12 games for the PC instead of DX9 like a lot still do today. 

  • Like 1

Well besides the point that it wouldn't cost billions and that the consoles uses the windows 8 core so it's not that expensive to expand it to the consoles anyway, they would release it for the xbox just for the cross platform parity. As then since all the xbox one developers would be developing DX12 games, they would also release DX12 games for the PC instead of DX9 like a lot still do today. 

You don't think it cost a least a billion to R&D and implement DirectX 12? You know they spent $100 million doing R&D just on an Xbox controller alone.

DirectX 11.1 and 11.2 are artificially restricted to 8.0 and 8.1 respectively.

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

 

The driver model is an excuse at best, a lie at worst. OpenGL and Mantle both manage to iterate outside the supposed confines of WDDM.

You don't think it cost a least a billion to R&D and implement DirectX 12? You know they spent $100 million doing R&D just on an Xbox controller alone.

 

You said billions, and you referred to only the xbox version, not ALL of DX12. and since we don't know anythign about what DX12 is yet, we can't even guess at the dev costs. but I would say it's unlikely. 

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

 

It doesn't matter if it's restricted to windows 8+, unlike DX 10 and 11, due to the Xbox One using DX12 PC games will be released with a DX12 option as well. 

The driver model is an excuse at best, a lie at worst. OpenGL and Mantle both manage to iterate outside the supposed confines of WDDM.

 

It's an excuse and a valid one at that. You can't compare it to OpenGL because OpenGL doesn't have to bother about rendering Windows UI. They can port the code back to Windows 7 but who will pay for the development cost?

You said billions, and you referred to only the xbox version, not ALL of DX12. and since we don't know anythign about what DX12 is yet, we can't even guess at the dev costs. but I would say it's unlikely. 

 

Ok.

It's an excuse and a valid one at that. You can't compare it to OpenGL because OpenGL doesn't have to bother about rendering Windows UI. They can port the code back to Windows 7 but who will pay for the development cost?

 

The Windows UI has no bearing on the matter at all.

 

But hey, go right ahead with such lines of thinking. The more inter-version restrictions placed on DirectX just makes OpenGL more attractive to developers.

This topic is now closed to further replies.
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I've custom-built all my own PCs and servers since the 90s, and this is the first time I have had to put a NAS together. Even if the actual base ZimaBoard 2 was already a completed build, it still feels pretty custom. I just wish that IceWhale Technology included a getting-started guide in the box for the Start Kit, which would have really completed this kit. Instead, I had to search for the official video on the YouTube channel to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong. So who is this for? Definitely the hobbyist who is comfortable building their own PC and servers. It also has a much smaller footprint than its nearest equivalent (in terms of specs), like the Beelink Me Pro, which is another NAS I will be testing soon. Although the Beelink does not come with the PCIe 3.0 X4 expansion, the ZimaBoard 2 Starter Kit suddenly looks to be a great bargain, even if it only offers the two 3.5-inch bays over the four in the other example. It makes a lot of sense to use Intel's N150 chip inside a NAS; it is more than capable of doing what the ZimaBoard 2 is intended for, media streaming and backup. It also looks like the IceWhale Technology staff are quite active in the official forums helping people with issues they come across with ZimaOS and the devices, peer support seems to be good as well, I was quickly able to find why I was not able to create a new Storage Pool in ZimaOS v1.6.1 even though that is quite a serious bug, hopefully it will be fixed in the next update. If you are comfortable with the command line and Docker, you'll be fine. You can do great things with this hardware. This was my first time with ZimaOS. It seems a bit barebones in comparison to the likes of Synology DSM, TOS, and UGOS, but it has a ton of apps to get you started with your home or small business NAS. Where to buy As of publishing, IceWhale Technology is running a discount of up to 5% for the Starter Kit. If you opt to get just the ZimaBoard 2 itself, it does come with a SATA Y-Cable, so you will be able to connect up to two 3.5-inch HDDs to it. ZimaBoard 2 1668 Starter Kit for $534.50 on Amazon US (was $548.60) ZimaBoard 2 832 Starter Kit for $372.88 on Amazon US (was $390.60) Zimaboard 2 1668 (16GB+64GB) for $419.90 on Amazon US Zimaboard 2 832 (8GB+32GB) for $359.90 on Amazon Disclosure: IceWhale Technology provided a free sample without any editorial input or review pre-approval. Good to know The Amazon link is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. 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    • It's in the Insider's group so yes it's technically beta, though these days it's hard to see much of a difference unless you opt for the most extreme beta builds, which I don't. When I moved here from the Release Preview channel I did so primarily because I wanted to see how well the restored taskbar functionality (restored from Win10, and earlier) is working and whether it was time to finally abandon SAB--and it is--working fine, so far. Not as polished as SAB, but it'll do for me.
    • I've been using MWB Premium for a number of years so that along with Windows updates and updated browser should be fine. Thanks for that.
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