directx 12 DirectX 12 Coming to Xbox One

[Hedon]

Unless the software in the PS4 is diabolically sloppy and never gets fine tuned (doubt it) then mere software improvements aren't going to make the XO be neck and neck. The power difference is too much.

As noted by many devs, the power difference is minimal. If we thought last gen was a tight performance race, this gen will be even closer.

[wakjak]

As noted by many devs, the power difference is minimal. If we thought last gen was a tight performance race, this gen will be even closer.

 

Now you're just flat out lying. The performance difference is huge. Every Xbox One game so far has shown this to be true, as each PS4 game has trounced on them, other than the first party titles.

[JonnyLH]

And how exactly do they plan to magically make dx11 hardware support directx 12 features? Is it going to be similar to how the cloud was supposed to magically transform gaming too?

To think the X1 wasn't developed primarily as a DX12 device considering this news is out 4 months after launch is absurd.

[McKay]

As noted by many devs, the power difference is minimal. If we thought last gen was a tight performance race, this gen will be even closer.

 

What about the 40% quoted? Last gen was different because the consoles were completely different. Plus it was off-setted. The 360 had a better GPU, the PS3 had a better CPU (Which nobody wanted to optimise for). This gen the hardware is the same type, and the PS4 is using measurably more powerful parts.

 

As I said in a different thread. Hopefully DX12 allows the XO to hit 1080/60 in the demanding games too, so that we can go back to squinting at zoomed in textures like last-gen to declare one version is "better"

[firey]

This thread makes me lol.  DX12 while yes it will give a boost is not going to magically make the hardware more powerful than the ps4.  It will still have the esram issues, it will still have a weaker gpu, it will still have less ddr ram.  Yes the DX12 may allow it to do some more graphically challenging things while working around whatever limitations are present with the hardware.  However if the PS4 was to get OpenGL updates that are on par with dx12 changes, or optimizations.. as we have seen already the PS4 can out-preform the Xbox.

[theyarecomingforyou]

As already stated, DX12 is no miracle fix for the issues facing the XB1. Remember what DX10 did for performance and graphical fidelity? Yup, virtually nothing. And the main improvements in DX11 required new hardware, like tessellation. It's also worth pointing out that OpenGL is looking to make the same improvements in reducing CPU load and allowing low-level hardware access, so the performance difference between the consoles is unlikely to change.

 

I just hope that Microsoft's desire for console dominance doesn't holdback PC gaming development, though given the company's contempt for PC gaming I don't have much confidence in that.

[McKay]

As already stated, DX12 is no miracle fix for the issues facing the XB1. Remember what DX10 did for performance and graphical fidelity? Yup, virtually nothing. And the main improvements in DX11 required new hardware, like tessellation. It's also worth pointing out that OpenGL is looking to make the same improvements in reducing CPU load and allowing low-level hardware access, so the performance difference between the consoles is unlikely to change.

 

I just hope that Microsoft's desire for console dominance doesn't holdback PC gaming development, though given the company's contempt for PC gaming I don't have much confidence in that.

 

I have never believed consoles were holding back PC gaming. It's probably because the vast majority of PC gamers don't have the latest bleeding edge tech and it'd be financial suicide for games companies to target that tiny demographic. Obviously there is going to be the occassional exception where developers got lazy and did a horrible port. But thats hardly consoles fault. Competent dev companies have had no trouble making games that scale well with different systems.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I have never believed consoles were holding back PC gaming. It's probably because the vast majority of PC gamers don't have the latest bleeding edge tech and it'd be financial suicide for games companies to target that tiny demographic.

My concern is more that Microsoft will focus most of DX12's development on the XB1 and not focus on advancing gaming on PC, which is what DirectX has historically been about. And there's little doubt that consoles have been holding back PC gaming, as it's about developing for the lowest common denominator. Fortunately there are still plenty of developers who treat the PC platform seriously.

[McKay]

My concern is more that Microsoft will focus most of DX12's development on the XB1 and not focus on advancing gaming on PC, which is what DirectX has historically been about. And there's little doubt that consoles have been holding back PC gaming, as it's about developing for the lowest common denominator. Fortunately there are still plenty of developers who treat the PC platform seriously.

 

The fact remains a vast portion of the people who play on PC don't have cutting edge hardware, often only adequate. Devs are going to try and make sure these people with average PC's can run their game. Whats the point pouring all that money into making the shiniest game in the World if only 12 people can run it?

[BajiRav]

Xbox 360 shipped with some DirectX 9 improvements, which eventually made their way into DirectX 10. I think we will see a something similar here. DirectX 12 will probably pick up hUMA, mantle like lower level API, tiled textures etc.

[Hedon]

So glad they keep improving the Xbox One like this. The graphics are going to continue to get better. Love it!

[JonnyLH]

This thread makes me lol.  DX12 while yes it will give a boost is not going to magically make the hardware more powerful than the ps4.  It will still have the esram issues, it will still have a weaker gpu, it will still have less ddr ram.  Yes the DX12 may allow it to do some more graphically challenging things while working around whatever limitations are present with the hardware.  However if the PS4 was to get OpenGL updates that are on par with dx12 changes, or optimizations.. as we have seen already the PS4 can out-preform the Xbox.

This thread makes you lol? This post screams of a weird insecurity to a consumer purchase.

 

There's a lot of basic facts which can be laid out which show a lot of big potential in this announcement:

• MS' investment into AMD. Billions of USD doesn't just get you a slightly custom APU which standard GCN architecture. MS probably worked with AMD very closely to actively develop this APU to support DX12. Keeping in mind the poor performance of DX11 on the box.
• You don't get a DX major revision every day. This will include a lot of new technology which isn't implemented or seen before. Even, maybe some common libraries to work with calculational off-loading in the cloud which would be insane.
• A lot of this won't be possible Sony side. A lot of this will take different changes in architecture which has been seen in every DX revision to date. Considering the PS4 doesn't even support DX, more so a wrapper which can emulate some DX features which make it easier for developers. Although that's just another wrapper which decrements performance.
• Low level work. Its obvious there has been partial low-level support from the get-go but with a real focus on DX implementing this on the PC side now, there will be some real benefits with the more multi-threaded approach on these consoles.

No, suddenly the Xbox is not going to become so powerhouse which locally beats the PS4 astronomically, but software does take hardware a long way. With these changes, you could see some very cool things which aren't possible on the PS4. With Phil also comfortably tweeting about Ray-Tracing aswell, which is insane. I'm very eagerly awaiting what they show at GDC, considering the roll they've been on recently.

[neoadorable]

This thread makes you lol? This post screams of a weird insecurity to a consumer purchase.

 

There's a lot of basic facts which can be laid out which show a lot of big potential in this announcement:

• MS' investment into AMD. Billions of USD doesn't just get you a slightly custom APU which standard GCN architecture. MS probably worked with AMD very closely to actively develop this APU to support DX12. Keeping in mind the poor performance of DX11 on the box.
• You don't get a DX major revision every day. This will include a lot of new technology which isn't implemented or seen before. Even, maybe some common libraries to work with calculational off-loading in the cloud which would be insane.
• A lot of this won't be possible Sony side. A lot of this will take different changes in architecture which has been seen in every DX revision to date. Considering the PS4 doesn't even support DX, more so a wrapper which can emulate some DX features which make it easier for developers. Although that's just another wrapper which decrements performance.
• Low level work. Its obvious there has been partial low-level support from the get-go but with a real focus on DX implementing this on the PC side now, there will be some real benefits with the more multi-threaded approach on these consoles.

No, suddenly the Xbox is not going to become so powerhouse which locally beats the PS4 astronomically, but software does take hardware a long way. With these changes, you could see some very cool things which aren't possible on the PS4. With Phil also comfortably tweeting about Ray-Tracing aswell, which is insane. I'm very eagerly awaiting what they show at GDC, considering the roll they've been on recently.

 

Well said Jonny. Not sure what's so funny about this thread, or about the X1. Sure PS4 has a slight power edge but updating to DX12 can only make things better on X1. What's so funny about that?

[Hedon]

I figured DX12 and performance and graphical improvements to the Xbox One would be a good thing, not a negative. Color me confused as well. The more parity, the better.

[NeoWind]

What if we able to run xbox os in ps4 to take advantage of the more powerful hardware because the xbox one UI is more nicer and it's awesome if some one port it over to PS4 since the hardware share similar architecture and the only discrepancy is software code. Maybe one day we could choose xbox os or orbis in ps4 and solve exclusive titles  :)

[JonnyLH]

Another thing for me, as much as the misterxmedia blog is full of s*** and provides hours of humorous reads. There's one picture which really strikes my attention:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105328/105328_original.png

 

I'm not confident with talking silicon but to me, that shows signs that the chip is stacked. Along with:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105558/105558_original.jpg
 

That is the A6 which is Apples chip which is stacked and shows the same signs. If anyone is good with silicon here can you expand on it? I'd be looking forward to seeing if there is any of this extremely bizarre "secret sauce" which he rants on about.

[firey]

This thread makes you lol? This post screams of a weird insecurity to a consumer purchase.

 

There's a lot of basic facts which can be laid out which show a lot of big potential in this announcement:

• MS' investment into AMD. Billions of USD doesn't just get you a slightly custom APU which standard GCN architecture. MS probably worked with AMD very closely to actively develop this APU to support DX12. Keeping in mind the poor performance of DX11 on the box.
• You don't get a DX major revision every day. This will include a lot of new technology which isn't implemented or seen before. Even, maybe some common libraries to work with calculational off-loading in the cloud which would be insane.
• A lot of this won't be possible Sony side. A lot of this will take different changes in architecture which has been seen in every DX revision to date. Considering the PS4 doesn't even support DX, more so a wrapper which can emulate some DX features which make it easier for developers. Although that's just another wrapper which decrements performance.
• Low level work. Its obvious there has been partial low-level support from the get-go but with a real focus on DX implementing this on the PC side now, there will be some real benefits with the more multi-threaded approach on these consoles.

No, suddenly the Xbox is not going to become so powerhouse which locally beats the PS4 astronomically, but software does take hardware a long way. With these changes, you could see some very cool things which aren't possible on the PS4. With Phil also comfortably tweeting about Ray-Tracing aswell, which is insane. I'm very eagerly awaiting what they show at GDC, considering the roll they've been on recently.

 

 

Well said Jonny. Not sure what's so funny about this thread, or about the X1. Sure PS4 has a slight power edge but updating to DX12 can only make things better on X1. What's so funny about that?

What is funny, is that many appear to believe that DX12 will put the xbox infront of the PS4, or be some savior for gaming.. on a game console.  What's funny is that people are now expecting on DX12 to be able to give the same performance that the PS4 is already giving (1080/60).  What's funny is that the xbox didn't launch with the power it should have especially at a higher price point.  Things I find humorous you may not, that's the beauty of individuality.   That and it's being talked about like the PS4 is going to be left in the dust, and that OpenGL can't be updated to match DX.

 

Software can only go as far as the hardware allows, especially when hardware is a concern, and there can be problems trying to push the hardware too far, especially in a form factored design.  

I am not saying DX12 won't bring stuff to the table, nor am I saying it won't give a graphics boost and open some doors, but it's not going to be what wins the console wars, and it's not going to make the xbox lead the pack.  Is it a plus for those that already have it? Sure.. they should be getting the gaming power that it boasts.  

Feel free to disagree.. but In my own personal opinion.. it is not going to make the xbox some insane powerhouse and give it some super edge over the PS4.   The cloud was supposed to do that.. and we haven't seen it yet.

 

What if we able to run xbox os in ps4 to take advantage of the more powerful hardware because the xbox one UI is more nicer and it's awesome if some one port it over to PS4 since the hardware is so similar and the only discrepancy is software code. Maybe one day we could choose xbox os or orbis in ps4 and solve exclusive titles  :)

Yuck, do not want metro on PS4.

[NeoWind]

 

 

Yuck, do not want metro on PS4.

Metro is way better and provide live update for your application. So what's wrong with it? 

[firey]

Metro is way better and provide live update for your application. So what's wrong with it? 

I dislike it on Windows 8, would never use Windows Phone.  I just don't like a bunch of tiles filling up my screen. I prefer static icons.  I don't need to see live updates on my PS4.  If I am watching TV or using my PS4.. then I couldn't care less about what people are posting on Facebook, what the weather is, or what games are on sale for me to spend my money on.

I fail to see how metro is way better than the ps4 xmb..  however we are going off topic.. so... yea.

 

[McKay]

Metro is way better and provide live update for your application. So what's wrong with it? 

 

Most Live tiles on the XO don't update or show any information. They just serve the function of being giant static icons that take up a tonne of space.

[Jarrichvdv]

Another thing for me, as much as the misterxmedia blog is full of s*** and provides hours of humorous reads. There's one picture which really strikes my attention:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105328/105328_original.png

 

I'm not confident with talking silicon but to me, that shows signs that the chip is stacked. Along with:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105558/105558_original.jpg

 

That is the A6 which is Apples chip which is stacked and shows the same signs. If anyone is good with silicon here can you expand on it? I'd be looking forward to seeing if there is any of this extremely bizarre "secret sauce" which he rants on about.

I saw that too, but A. Penello once tweeted something like 'No add'l dGPU in Xbox One. System is plenty powerful for now and the future' so right now I'm not sure what to believe. If it DOES contain a stacked GPU, they might be hiding some hardware pieces on purpose for future reveals.

[Hedon]

When was the Xbox One NOT a 1080p/60fps console? Last we saw, most of the games on the X1 are 1080p/60fps.

Most Live tiles on the XO don't update or show any information. They just serve the function of being giant static icons that take up a tonne of space.

Yup, both consoles have giant static icons.

[Jarrichvdv]

I dislike it on Windows 8, would never use Windows Phone.  I just don't like a bunch of tiles filling up my screen. I prefer static icons.  I don't need to see live updates on my PS4.  If I am watching TV or using my PS4.. then I couldn't care less about what people are posting on Facebook, what the weather is, or what games are on sale for me to spend my money on.

I fail to see how metro is way better than the ps4 xmb..  however we are going off topic.. so... yea.

 

I agree that Metro does not improve functionality on the Xbox One as much as it does on Windows or Windows Phone. But it's easy on the eyes; and makes for a very straight-forward interface without clutter. I prefer that by a long shot, but I have no problem with XMB. It's just a different approach to UX design

[McKay]

When was the Xbox One NOT a 1080p/60fps console? Last we saw, most of the games on the X1 are 1080p/60fps.

Yup, both consoles have giant static icons.

 

At least on the PS4 they have small icons for several things. Large icons are reserved for apps and games etc. And source for "most" Xbox games being 1080. Last time I checked it was the minority.

[Hedon]

At least on the PS4 they have small icons for several things. Large icons are reserved for apps and games etc. And source for "most" Xbox games being 1080. Last time I checked it was the minority.

Source? Posted numerous times here. Feel free to check out the resolution game thread. You didn't check very hard if you think they are in the minority.

 

PS4 have large and small icons. Mostly large though. X1 have large and small as well.