directx 12 DirectX 12 Coming to Xbox One

[BajiRav]

Another thing for me, as much as the misterxmedia blog is full of s*** and provides hours of humorous reads. There's one picture which really strikes my attention:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105328/105328_original.png

 

I'm not confident with talking silicon but to me, that shows signs that the chip is stacked. Along with:

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/misterxmedia/21549619/105558/105558_original.jpg

 

That is the A6 which is Apples chip which is stacked and shows the same signs. If anyone is good with silicon here can you expand on it? I'd be looking forward to seeing if there is any of this extremely bizarre "secret sauce" which he rants on about.

 

Multi-layered / stacked silicon is nothing new. Your PC's motherboard for example - have been multi-layered for years.

[Hedon]

Thats a very cherry picked, incomplete list you have there. There are games already out that aren't even on your list, and you list random games that aren't out yet. But not all of them.

 

True. I forgot a couple. New ones added in bold. The only one that we can't find the resolution for is Xbox One Fitness, so I left that off. Feel free to prove my comment wrong that most of the games on the Xbox One are at 1080p. We wait with baited breath.

 

Oh, it's a majority. I have a feeling people are just burying their heads, or have fuzzy math....

 

720p - Battlefield 4

720p - Call of Duty Ghosts

720p - Dead Rising

720p - Killer Instinct

720p - Metal Gear Solid V Ground Zeroes

720p - Witcher 3

720p - Rayman Legends

 

792p - Titanfall Beta

 

900p - Assassin's Creed 4

900p - Ryse

900p - Thief

900p - Plants vs. Zombies

 

960p - Watchdogs

 

1080p - Madden 25

1080p - Crimson Dragon

1080p - Max The Curse of Brotherhood

1080p - FIFA 14

1080p - Forza 5

1080p - NBA 2K14

1080p - Dying Light

1080p - EA UFC

1080p - Kinect Sports Rivals

1080p - Halo 5

1080p - Murdered Soul Suspect

1080p - Need for Speed Rivals

1080p - Skylanders Swapforce

1080p - Wolfenstein

1080p - Powerstar Golf

1080p - NBA Live

1080p - Lego Marvel Superheroes

1080p - Alien Isolation

1080p - Project Spark

1080p - zoo Tycoon

1080p - Halo Spartan Assault

1080p - Lococycle

1080p - Lego Movie Video Game

1080p - Strider

1080p - Peggle 2

1080p - Angry Birds Star Wars

1080p - Zumba

1080p - Fighter Within

 

 

Hope this helps.

[DrunknMunky Veteran]

Enough of the attitude, people.

 

Also, keep it DX12/OpenGL related please. You know where the resolutiongate discussion belongs.

[Athernar]

The framerate and resolution aren't the only factors in image quality. You have draw distance, texture quality, anti-aliasing, polygon counts, etc. The point being that even if Microsoft address the substantial performance issues currently afflicting the XB1 it won't suddenly level the playing field. Also, the performance difference is likely to become a factor further into the lifecycle of the consoles when games are pushing the hardware to the max. Don't forget that it was severals years into the lifecycle of the X360 and PS3 that games started to drop the resolution to maintain performance with high profile games like GTAIV and Halo 3.

 

It's great that Microsoft is looking to bring DX12 to the XB1 and improve performance. What's concerning is the impact that will have on GPU development, which is primarily based around PC.

 

I don't think you'll have to worry honestly, if Microsoft continues on as they have with DirectX recently the API will be locked to the latest version of Windows and possibly backported to 8.1 at most. (if that)

 

That will limit them to a 12% or less market penetration, 20% if there was suddenly a mass upgrade exodus from 8.0 to 8.1. For a developer, that is nowhere close to enough to justify meaningful investment in support.

 

OpenGL offers better performance today and already has broader platform support for newer technologies on Windows alone. Why waste time on a fragmented DirectX?

[spaceelf]

Why waste time on a fragmented DirectX?

Why waste time on a new renderer when their existing DX10/11 one works fine for those users?  Supporting DX12 is not likely to be a full rewrite.

[theyarecomingforyou]

I don't think you'll have to worry honestly, if Microsoft continues on as they have with DirectX recently the API will be locked to the latest version of Windows and possibly backported to 8.1 at most. (if that)

 

That will limit them to a 12% or less market penetration, 20% if there was suddenly a mass upgrade exodus from 8.0 to 8.1. For a developer, that is nowhere close to enough to justify meaningful investment in support.

 

OpenGL offers better performance today and already has broader platform support for newer technologies on Windows alone. Why waste time on a fragmented DirectX?

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

[Luc2k]

Slightly confused why people believe DX12 will be a huge improvement for Xbone. Isn't DX11.x closer to the metal on the console than PC? Isn't that the point of consoles having fixed hardware? We don't have any numbers yet, but whatever they'll be, you're not going to see improvement on Xbone to the same extent as PC.

[Hedon]

Slightly confused why people believe DX12 will be a huge improvement for Xbone. Isn't DX11.x closer to the metal on the console than PC? Isn't that the point of consoles having fixed hardware? We don't have any numbers yet, but whatever they'll be, you're not going to see improvement on Xbone to the same extent as PC.

Microsoft wouldn't release DirectX 12 for Xbox One if there wasn't any improvements to be made. It would be counter productive, and would be billions lost in R&D.

[BajiRav]

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

 

I don't think they will hold back DX12 to Windows 8/8.1. I think people developed that notion with the whole Vista and DirectX 10 thing. That was justified by the driver model change between XP and Vista. As far as I remember, all releases since then have been back ported within reasonable time limit.

[Athernar]

Why waste time on a new renderer when their existing DX10/11 one works fine for those users?  Supporting DX12 is not likely to be a full rewrite.

 

For all you know DirectX 12 could be a full rewrite, but it doesn't matter either way. It's not the rewriting that is relevant, it's the number of customers you can sell that rewrite to.

 

Indeed. Microsoft's contemptuous treatment of DirectX (and PC gaming in general) was obviously a major factor in AMD's decision to develop Mantle and one has to assume that nVidia is considering something similar, if it's not already far along in development. It's a shame that DirectX, which helped to unite the gaming industry, is now the thing holding it back.

 

If Microsoft bases DX12 around the XB1 and limits it to Windows 8 and above on PC (or worse makes it require Windows 9) then it won't get anywhere, much as was the case with DX10. I really don't have any faith in Microsoft doing the right thing at this point.

 

NVidia are probably smart enough to sit back and watch what happens to Mantle at this point. If it gets put up for adoption as a standard then NVidia will likely pounce, if it doesn't - Mantle will probably end up fading out in favour of new revisions of OpenGL and extensions from both AMD and NVidia.

 

I don't think they will hold back DX12 to Windows 8/8.1. I think people developed that notion with the whole Vista and DirectX 10 thing. That was justified by the driver model change between XP and Vista. As far as I remember, all releases since then have been back ported within reasonable time limit.

 

DirectX 11.1 and 11.2 are artificially restricted to 8.0 and 8.1 respectively.

[Luc2k]

Microsoft wouldn't release DirectX 12 for Xbox One if there wasn't any improvements to be made. It would be counter productive, and would be billions lost in R&D.

Didn't say there wouldn't be improvements, just not to the same magnitude as on PC.

[firey]

Microsoft wouldn't release DirectX 12 for Xbox One if there wasn't any improvements to be made. It would be counter productive, and would be billions lost in R&D.

Not sure why the amount of improvement on the Xbone is the be all and end all of DX12.  DX12 will also be released on windows pc's and will likely have the same if not better improvements.  Just because it doesn't send the console into orbit doesn't mean it would be billions lost in R&D.

[HawkMan]

Consoles and the DX on consoles are already bare metal, more or less compared to on PC. and is what Mantle is on the PC, even more so in some ways, but both ways and all that. 

 

However DX12 which we know nothing about except it's called DX12 and is now officially revealed and being made/released will also have more than just performance functions added to it. As such it makes sense for MS to have directX parity between the Xbox One and PC to ease game development for developers and maintain cross platform functionality, Also with the One effectively having a 8 core it makes little sense not to. 

 

That said, new functions and cross platform parity is likely not the only reasons, as upgrading DX can significantly increase performance as well, as has been demonstrated in the past. it can also open up new tools and methods for developers to use all the custom work on the APU combined with the new SDK that's coming for the One to allow devs to make use of the powerful functions of the APU without specialized coding.

 

So we're likely to see increased performance and increased quality. and due to it being a cross platform release, you WILL see PC games taking advantage of it right from the get go or nearly so since they'll use the code they already did for the xbox. as opposed to the largely ignored DX versions on the PC. 

[spaceelf]

For all you know DirectX 12 could be a full rewrite, but it doesn't matter either way. It's not the rewriting that is relevant, it's the number of customers you can sell that rewrite to.

MS knows how hard it was to get people to jump from DX9 in the first place, they're not likely to do that again.

 

But true that neither of us can say for sure.

[Hedon]

Not sure why the amount of improvement on the Xbone is the be all and end all of DX12.  DX12 will also be released on windows pc's and will likely have the same if not better improvements.  Just because it doesn't send the console into orbit doesn't mean it would be billions lost in R&D.

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

[firey]

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

What makes you think there will be no improvements?  I don't see anyone in this thread saying that?

[HawkMan]

Like I said, MS wouldn't release DirectX 12 on Xbox One if there were not going to be any improvements. If they did, they are the worst software company in the world, and are clueless. Not sure why they have billions.

 

Well besides the point that it wouldn't cost billions and that the consoles uses the windows 8 core so it's not that expensive to expand it to the consoles anyway, they would release it for the xbox just for the cross platform parity. As then since all the xbox one developers would be developing DX12 games, they would also release DX12 games for the PC instead of DX9 like a lot still do today. 

[Hedon]

Well besides the point that it wouldn't cost billions and that the consoles uses the windows 8 core so it's not that expensive to expand it to the consoles anyway, they would release it for the xbox just for the cross platform parity. As then since all the xbox one developers would be developing DX12 games, they would also release DX12 games for the PC instead of DX9 like a lot still do today. 

You don't think it cost a least a billion to R&D and implement DirectX 12? You know they spent $100 million doing R&D just on an Xbox controller alone.

[BajiRav]

DirectX 11.1 and 11.2 are artificially restricted to 8.0 and 8.1 respectively.

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

[Luc2k]

You don't think it cost a least a billion to R&D and implement DirectX 12? You know they spent $100 million doing R&D just on an Xbox controller alone.

[Athernar]

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

 

The driver model is an excuse at best, a lie at worst. OpenGL and Mantle both manage to iterate outside the supposed confines of WDDM.

[HawkMan]

You don't think it cost a least a billion to R&D and implement DirectX 12? You know they spent $100 million doing R&D just on an Xbox controller alone.

 

You said billions, and you referred to only the xbox version, not ALL of DX12. and since we don't know anythign about what DX12 is yet, we can't even guess at the dev costs. but I would say it's unlikely. 

Looks like you are right but again seemed to be because of the driver model. I don't see how that is artificial. If they keep porting everything back to older versions, they might as well stop releasing new versions of Windows.

 

It doesn't matter if it's restricted to windows 8+, unlike DX 10 and 11, due to the Xbox One using DX12 PC games will be released with a DX12 option as well. 

[BajiRav]

The driver model is an excuse at best, a lie at worst. OpenGL and Mantle both manage to iterate outside the supposed confines of WDDM.

 

It's an excuse and a valid one at that. You can't compare it to OpenGL because OpenGL doesn't have to bother about rendering Windows UI. They can port the code back to Windows 7 but who will pay for the development cost?

[Hedon]

You said billions, and you referred to only the xbox version, not ALL of DX12. and since we don't know anythign about what DX12 is yet, we can't even guess at the dev costs. but I would say it's unlikely. 

 

Ok.

[Athernar]

It's an excuse and a valid one at that. You can't compare it to OpenGL because OpenGL doesn't have to bother about rendering Windows UI. They can port the code back to Windows 7 but who will pay for the development cost?

 

The Windows UI has no bearing on the matter at all.

 

But hey, go right ahead with such lines of thinking. The more inter-version restrictions placed on DirectX just makes OpenGL more attractive to developers.