California man, 80 shot burglar despite pleas of pregnancy

[DeadEndAccount]

I believe there is an old saying: "if you storm someone else's castle then expect to be shot". If she didn't want to get shot then she shouldn't have tried to rob that persons house in the first place - take some damn responsibility for the choices you make in your life.

[chrisj1968]

She was lying - not pregnant.

whoa! Now THAT changes everything.

[Dashel]

Murderer

[+Warwagon MVC]

Aww man, I wanna use my tag line phase but I got warned last time I did :laugh:

[theyarecomingforyou]

I believe there is an old saying: "if you storm someone else's castle then expect to be shot". If she didn't want to get shot then she shouldn't have tried to rob that persons house in the first place - take some damn responsibility for the choices you make in your life.

Again, that isn't in dispute. Her unlawful actions resulted in her own demise and nobody has defended her actions. However, by your own logic he should take some responsibility for killing her in cold blood. He chased after and killed an unarmed person when his life was not in danger - that is an unlawful killing. It would have been entirely different if he had taken her down and restrained her until police arrived, as that would be considered reasonable force.

 

People should not be taking justice into their own hands.

[thejohnnyq]

Not pregnant - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/dead-long-beach-home-invader-pregnant-accomplice-charged-murder-officials-article-1.1880617

 

The guy was a real loser also - Gus Adams has prior convictions for drug possession and theft. In May, he and Miller were arrested for trying to scam an elderly man of his life savings, the man?s daughter told the Daily News.

[xrobwx71]

Just came over the news she was NOT pregnant, and the homeowner was both beaten and body slammed. He fired a .22 caliber pistol.

And he was 80, that's pretty damned old to tote a beating like that. Must be a tough old bastard. It goes to show you, don't mess with old people. .

[hdca18]

Clearly the welfare of her unborn child was not of great concern. 

[timster]

pregnant or not, using a child as an excuse to keep someone from taking your miserable life is an extremely pathetic thing to do.

[Joswin]

"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant ? I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway," Greer told KNBC-TV outside his house.

..... Sad what happened to him, but this was totally unjustified and more or less murder. To have such indifference to a person (or persons!) life  :/  "Yeah she was like im pregnant please dont shoot, and I was like lul *boom headshot*".

[rocksturdy]

while burglarizing someone's place, you know the risks. you end up getting hurt, then it's your fault.

it sucks that they beat up the old man to the point they broke his collar bone, then is going to shout "i'm pregnant" when it's coming back on you??

really I can't say the old man was wrong. he got burglarized 3 times possibly by the same people, it's more than possible that theywould be coming back again at some point and hwo knows, maybe kill him the next time.

[DocM]

The surviving guys mother has also been charged; first-degree residential burglary, first-degree residential robbery & inflicting elder abuse during the crime.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mother-charged-long-beach-20140728-story.html

[PsYcHoKiLLa]

ROE is not static, and changes from situation to situation. I dont know where you pulled that twaddle from, but its more than evident that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Yup, no idea, I bow to your obvious self-importance.

 

 

 

4. US forces will not fire unless fired upon unless there is clear evidence of hostile intent.

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-23/fm100_10.htm

[Lord Method Man]

Nothing wrong here. The assailants had previously been arrested and had only been released from jail barely a month before this happened. Obviously the system wasn't working to keep these cockroaches out of our society so good for this guy for doing something about it.

 

As for the dead criminal:

 

[Wyn6]

Forgive me for waxing philosophical for a moment. But, everyday I read the death-murder-murder-death that is the news. Then I read some of the statements in threads like these and it makes me wonder. Where will we be in a thousand years? Two thousand? Will we be fighting the same old wars? We will continue to gleefully bring on and/or celebrate the deaths of others? Will we have the same lack of regard for life that it seems all too many people have these days?

 

It's funny how I've changed over the years. I used to make some of these same statements, "One less scumbag!" "The world's a better place!" "They got what they deserved!" Now, I see it as sad, bordering on the precipice of hopelessness. Am I saying that I won't kill someone who's trying to kill me? Nope. But, it's sad that I would even have to and I wouldn't be all cavalier about it, either.

 

I've been really looking at the human penchant for killing and why it's a first recourse in far too many instances. Can't resolve things with words? Fine, I'll kill you. You won't give me what you have? Fine. I'll kill you. You don't agree with me? Fine. I'll kill you. You want to make me angry? Fine. I'll kill you.  

 

What the hell is wrong with people? Is this just our nature and something we'll never grow past? Are we doomed to continue the cycle of violence, hate, greed, and destruction that as plagued us as far back as we can go?

 

Anyway, I'll ask again. If this woman gets farther down the alley, say into a neighbor's yard or onto the next street, is the old man still justified in killing her? If they had gotten into their car and he into his, could he have chased them for blocks, or miles and still have justification for killing them?

 

Learn to swim.

[Yazoo]

what is an 80 year old man doing with a gun anyway, does he even know what he has done?  I see karma just around the corner for the old dog.

[timster]

what is an 80 year old man doing with a gun anyway, does he even know what he has done?  I see karma just around the corner for the old dog.

 

Are you trolling or are you implying that every 80 year old man is senile and doesn't know what he's doing?

[trag3dy]

Forgive me for waxing philosophical for a moment. But, everyday I read the death-murder-murder-death that is the news. Then I read some of the statements in threads like these and it makes me wonder. Where will we be in a thousand years? Two thousand? Will we be fighting the same old wars? We will continue to gleefully bring on and/or celebrate the deaths of others? Will we have the same lack of regard for life that it seems all too many people have these days?

 

It's funny how I've changed over the years. I used to make some of these same statements, "One less scumbag!" "The world's a better place!" "They got what they deserved!" Now, I see it as sad, bordering on the precipice of hopelessness. Am I saying that I won't kill someone who's trying to kill me? Nope. But, it's sad that I would even have to and I wouldn't be all cavalier about it, either.

 

I've been really looking at the human penchant for killing and why it's a first recourse in far too many instances. Can't resolve things with words? Fine, I'll kill you. You won't give me what you have? Fine. I'll kill you. You don't agree with me? Fine. I'll kill you. You want to make me angry? Fine. I'll kill you.  

 

What the hell is wrong with people? Is this just our nature and something we'll never grow past? Are we doomed to continue the cycle of violence, hate, greed, and destruction that as plagued us as far back as we can go?

 

Anyway, I'll ask again. If this woman gets farther down the alley, say into a neighbor's yard or onto the next street, is the old man still justified in killing her? If they had gotten into their car and he into his, could he have chased them for blocks, or miles and still have justification for killing them?

 

Learn to swim.

 

It's interesting that you place so much blame on the person who was just defending his life and belongings instead of the people who initiated the crime.

 

Maybe in this future you're talking about people will know that if you break into someones home then you might get shot and killed. This might prevent that particular chain of events from ever happening, yeah?

 

I congratulate the guy for deciding he didn't want to be a victim any longer.

[Joswin]

I congratulate the guy

I need to stop coming into these forums.

It was awful what happened to him, they were not nice people and don't deserve much sympathy. But did they deserve to die? No. Did this man act with reasonable force? No.

He talks about it like its just a matter of fact. "So she is begging for me not to kill her and I just do it anyway." you can almost hear him then go "Then I went and had a beer and some doritos." Maybe being from the UK I am not really used to the idea that murdering people is ok if they violate your property. If I was attacked and injured, and the weapon was nearby and I feared for my life ..... Ok. Self-defence. Totally get that. But this? Not really.

 

Prosecutors will have to determine whether chasing after the suspects and firing on them outside the home goes beyond self-defense, McDonnell said

 

All they have to do was listen to his own words tbh...

 

"She says, 'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant ? I'm going to have a baby,' and I shot her anyway,"

"The lady didn't run as fast as the man, so I shot her in the back twice,"

"She's dead ... but he got away."

Sorry. I think this is messed up.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Joswin

[trag3dy]

I need to stop coming into these forums.

It was awful what happened to him, they were not nice people and don't deserve much sympathy. But did they deserve to die? No. Did this man act with reasonable force? No.

He talks about it like its just a matter of fact. "So she is begging for me not to kill her and I just do it anyway." you can almost hear him then go "Then I went and had a beer and some doritos." Maybe being from the UK I am not really used to the idea that murdering people is ok if they violate your property. If I was attacked and injured, and the weapon was nearby and I feared for my life ..... Ok. Self-defence. Totally get that. But this? Not really.

 

The difference between the old man and you is that he didn't want to continue being a victim any longer and living his life in fear. That was the fourth time his home was broken into, it was just a matter of time until the intruders decided to kill him at that rate.

 

Maybe future would-be intruders will hear the old man has a gun and will think twice before breaking into his home.

[Gone]

Are you trolling or are you implying that every 80 year old man is senile and doesn't know what he's doing?

Obviously he's trolling, which through my several received warnings, is against Neowin policy. 

[Wyn6]

It's interesting that you place so much blame on the person who was just defending his life and belongings instead of the people who initiated the crime.

 

Maybe in this future you're talking about people will know that if you break into someones home then you might get shot and killed. This might prevent that particular chain of events from ever happening, yeah?

 

I congratulate the guy for deciding he didn't want to be a victim any longer.

What's interesting is how often people in these debates manufacture non-existent statements that were never made. I'm not going to retort with the obligatory, "Point out where I said...". Because, I'm pretty sure you know better. Nor, should I have to make the claim of you cherry-picking from my post.

 

Here's the thing about "deciding" you don't want to be a victim any longer. Where does it stop? Now, I would like you to make note that I, in no way, am saying that this is what you are saying or implying. That being said, should I preemptively find and kill people after I've been mugged? Or, maybe I should gun down that suspicious looking guy coming toward me at the park?

 

You missed the point of my whole post. It's about killing and destroying each other at every opportunity. That's what I'm weary of. It was about people not evolving and not looking to be better. As far as the topic is concerned, the old man was morally wrong and may ultimately be proven legally wrong, as well. The suspects were idiots, as I stated in my first post on this subject. I have always said that one of the dumbest crimes you can commit is breaking and entering a home. Regardless, of how wrong the suspects were, for the man to chase them off of his property into an alleyway, and gun down this woman, though she was no longer a threat, then dismiss it flippantly, is abhorrent. This was murder, whether you agree with what he did or not.

 

I can assure you that, if someone breaks in my home, and I'm not incapacitated or killed, there's a good chance they won't make it out alive. But, if they break in and then when presented with a deadly threat flee out into the street, the alley, or a neighbor's yard, there is almost no reason for me to chase them down and kill them. The one exception being if they had killed, attempted to kill, or raped, a member of my family. But, it would still be murder.  

[Joswin]

The difference between the old man and you is that he didn't want to continue being a victim any longer and living his life in fear. That was the fourth time his home was broken into, it was just a matter of time until the intruders decided to kill him at that rate.

 

Maybe future would-be intruders will hear the old man has a gun and will think twice before breaking into his home.

 

Difference between the old man and me is that I don't consider human life to be something that's mine to take, or so callously. He got burgled, yes that's terrible and I can imagine the anger anyone would feel. Does that give me the right to kill someone? No.

 

To be able to shoot a women, pleading to be pregnant (lie or not, its not the point), in the back (who was running away??)... takes some kind of person. Not a good kind.

 

Regardless, of how wrong the suspects were, for the man to chase them off of his property into an alleyway, and gun down this woman, though she was no longer a threat, then dismiss it flippantly, is abhorrent. This was murder, whether you agree with what he did or not.

 

Thanks. Nice to see that someone gets else gets it.

[Memphis]

To all those who say anyone here is directing blame away from the robbers is using a logical fallacy. The very reason we do not debate the robbers guilt is the same reason people do not debate how evil the North Korean regime is, or that Hitler was bad. It is not controversial and, excluding a few whackos, is universally agreed upon. Their is not a single person here defending the robbers. That said a criminal can also be a victim and that's what happened in this story.

[tuckeratlarge]

Male, Female, Gay, Straight, Pregnant, Terminal Illness, Crippled, Fit, Big ######, Little ######, Black, White, Asian, Indian, American, French, German etc etc - you come into my house, you will be going to hospital and you better hope and pray they put you away for a long time, because if not I'm coming for you. If you die, your fault so I don't give a crap.