Simple Network Setup Questions

[+BudMan MVC]

what is that from?

[+PeterUK MVC]

what is that from?

My head or brain.

[+BudMan MVC]

There is already dhcp relay, can not for the life of me think of when this would be of any use to anyone.. Why would anyone want to do such a thing?? You want your isp to hand you rfc1918 address to you lan?? For what possible reason??

[+PeterUK MVC]

There is already dhcp relay, can not for the life of me think of when this would be of any use to anyone.. Why would anyone want to do such a thing?? You want your isp to hand you rfc1918 address to you lan?? For what possible reason??

I'm saying instead of what we call own home NAT router doing the way they do now that we could have a home NAT router the way I posted above we would still get are own WAN IP (not shared by anyone else) by NAT where the clients get a copy of the WAN IP with a LAN IP and port forwarding by MAC.

 

The way NAT was done was:

I have a LAN IP I need this LAN IP to connect to the internet by a WAN IP shared by NAT.

My way of thinking:

I have the internet WAN IP that I share by NAT and have a LAN IP

[+BudMan MVC]

So you want to associate a layer 3 port or protocol with layer 2?  So inbound unsolicited traffic to my public IP on port 80.. You want me to tell my router to send that to mac address abc?  How is that different then telling it to forward to 192.168.1.100 ??

 

What exactly do you think this accomplishes that is not already there?

[+PeterUK MVC]

So you want to associate a layer 3 port or protocol with layer 2?  So inbound unsolicited traffic to my public IP on port 80.. You want me to tell my router to send that to mac address abc?  How is that different then telling it to forward to 192.168.1.100 ??

 

What exactly do you think this accomplishes that is not already there?

Like I said this is off topic from you spinning it on from something I posted and you don't get or have not tried it to understand so really the only way your going to understand is if you get a Netgear GS105E or the like and if you still don't get it well just go with that Because when the person who said I want some hardware/software to change a LAN source IP like 192.168.0.2 to a WAN IP and map/statefull it I'm sure may in networking back then said it will never work and is mad of course most except this madness ever if there could be another way to do it that some might find is a better way..

[+BudMan MVC]

Huh?? What can you do with a GS105E that could not do with my cisco sg300??

I have looked at what you posted - sorry but its a lot of gibberish without context of what your trying to actually accomplish.

You suggest that a user put the same mac address on 2 different routers and get the same IP from his ISP - this is nonsense pure and simple.. There is no valid situation where that would be a viable option for anyone.

[sc302 Veteran]

Peter there is nothing to try here, what you are suggesting is doing something that should not ever be attempted.  You are creating a double ip and double mac, do you have any clue what negative impact this would have on a network.  Traffic not knowing where to go to, traffic going to both places, heavy cross talk, heavy broadcast, network degradation, etc.  It is not an acceptable method do accomplish what you are trying on any sort of level.  Budman is trying to help correct you, but you seem to want to continue to tout an incorrect setup as being acceptable.  To get the same IP on different devices you wouldn't be using a layer 2 switch for 1, and you sure wouldn't be using the method you recommend.  You would be using a device that can handle advanced routing protocols, not a simple, albeit managed, layer 2 switch.

[+PeterUK MVC]

 

Huh?? What can you do with a GS105E that could not do with my cisco sg300??

Would you like me to say that Netgear & Cisco and others have different designs in the operation of a switch?

 

Peter there is nothing to try here,

I know I was only replying to xrobwx nothing more.

[remixedcat]

"Yeah exactly, although most access points are also 4 port switches,"

 

Not sure what APs you have been looking at - but I that is not the standard no..  That is standard for your soho wifi router that sure is an AP   But not your just standard AP.. Most of them have 1 port - some have 2 for daisy chain or pass through, etc.

Yeah My actual APs and not routers configged as such only have two ETH ports... one uplink/PoE and the other is a RJ45 console port. another AP I have has two ETH (PoE/uplink and ETH1) and a console port.

[+PeterUK MVC]

Heres a AP with 4 ports

http://www.buffalo-technology.com/en/products/network-devices/dual-band-11ac/adapters-converters/wli-h4-di300-airstation-1300/

[+BudMan MVC]

To be honest that is a media bridge - not a AP   While it has wifi - its designed to

 

"The converter can connect any four wired devices, such as printers, gaming consoles or DVRs, to an existing wireless networ"

 

It is designed to connect wired devices to you network via wireless - not proved wireless access to the network for mobile devices, ie AP..  Its a media bridge!

[+PeterUK MVC]

To be honest that is a media bridge - not a AP 

Just a fancier name for a AP with 4 ports.

[+BudMan MVC]

No its not a fanicer name - it doesn't provide wireless access, it connects to a wifi network.

 

see this is how it is designed to be used..

 

 

It not designed to have wireless clients connect to it..

[sc302 Veteran]

Just a fancier name for a AP with 4 ports.

 

not really. 

 

Access Point or AP = A device that allows a wireless connection to the network.  It is not a router or a switch or has any more ports on it to provide access to wired devices.  It may have an additional link to another AP to provide physical network access to that AP.  These are usually reserved for business class being that the cost is usually more than a router and aren't as easy to get (must be ordered online, brick and mortar stores do not carry APs).

 

Wireless router = A firewall with built in AP, usually has a 4 port layer 2 lan switch attached to it.  The Small Office Home Office (soho) marketing term for this is wireless router to designate SOHO class devices vs business class devices, most of these are limited firewalls as in limited features usually not being able to block outbound traffic via access control lists or being able to do more advanced nat abilities like one to one nat and botnet filtering, but support many other firewall features like port forwarding and port mapping, SPI, etc.  The downside to the SOHO appliance is that when a new device comes out, it replaces the old one and firmwares are no longer created for the old one, so to get current updates and features you must either go to a custom firmware or go to a new router.  Wireless routers can be turned into an AP by simply not using the interface that you would use to connect to a cable modem or dsl modem, going into the admin interface and putting the router on the current network, and connecting one of the 4 lan ports to a lan port or switch that is connected to a lan port on the primary router.  In many cases this is the cheapest/easiest way to get a AP in your house being that AP's usually cost more than wireless routers. 

 

Media Bridge - a way to get a group of wired devices on a network without running cables.  Instead of installing a wireless card (some devices are not capable of wireless, like printers) putting in a wireless bridge will get them access to the network.  Usually this is cheaper than running individual wires for each device.  A media bridge is not a router or an AP.  Just because it looks like a duck, doesn't mean it is a duck in this case.  Looks like a wireless router to the untrained eye just by looking at the device.

[Aergan]

Just a fancier name for a AP with 4 ports.

 

Except the product you listed is a wireless bridge, it's designed to talk to other wireless access points / routers / wireless bridges in bridge mode wireless.

 

It's infrastructure facing, not client.

[+BudMan MVC]

You can quite often combine technologies.. For example a wifi router is a router, switch and accesspoint.  The bridge listed is designed to connect too a existing wifi network and bridge its wired clients to that network.  Where an AP provides a wireless network and connects wireless clients to the wired network.

 

Now using something like dd-wrt it has a mode where it acts like a AP and bridge.. Or repeater and bridge.. I can connect to a wireless network, while also allowing wireless clients to connect to it while also having ports connected wired devices to the network via the wifi network it connects to provided by an AP..

 

http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Repeater_Bridge

 

Its quite possible the device you linked to can run in this mode as well..  Having a bit of an issue finding the actual manual for the thing.. But its not really an AP even in that mode of operation, its a repeater..

 

edit:  So found the manual on the CD you can download.  There is no place that i see where it can even be a repeater?  You can not setup wifi networks on it - you can only connect to an existing wifi network..

 

[+PeterUK MVC]

Bit of a pointless product if it can't be AP anyway find it at ebuyer under  Access Points.
http://www.ebuyer.com/388475-buffalo-airstation-1300-wireless-ac-gigabit-dual-band-media-bridge-wli-h4-d1300-eu

[+BudMan MVC]

What??  Seems like a nice media bridge if you ask me..  It not designed to be a AP, as to not being able to repeat normally quite useless in a bridge to be honest.  Repeating wifi is /2 out of the box.  And if this the only way you can connect your wired devices to your network - and you have multiple of them they are most likely going to be using up most of the bandwdith of that wireless link anyway - so why would you want wireless clients connecting though that connection as well?

 

SC302 already went over when these sorts of devices are used..  They can come in quite handy for many people.  I personally would just wire the device.  Since only thing that really should be on wireless is "mobile" devices - if it doesn't move it should be wired.  These devices are normally for stationary devices that don't have wireless to connect into your network - and you don't want to run a wire..

 

As to where ebuyer puts them - they prob didn't want to create a section for media bridges, or the person responsible for org of products doesn't understand what it is

 

Newegg for example has it right category

 

[+PeterUK MVC]

What??  Seems like a nice media bridge if you ask me..

It would be nicer if it was a AP too.

[Praetor]

There's no reason why you can't get gigabit over cabling that's carrying POE indeed most enterprise setups the AP's are POE.

 

The reason for that is a quality norm that requires, in certain environments, the devices to be powered via PoE; the biggest problem i've seen with those is the crazy ass prices: Cisco PoE switch is 1k+, so using that in a home setup is nonsense.

[+BudMan MVC]

It would be nicer if it was a AP too.

 

Ok -- if you think so..  I don't see the point of adding that feature to such a device..  Just lipstick on a pig if you ask me

 

If want and AP would buy an AP..  If want a media bridge - buy media bridge.  They are not the same thing..  If you want to use device as media bridge and repeater than buy something that can run dd-wrt and use that feature.  If you want an AP that supports wireless uplink then get that - most of those would be enterprise grade AP.

 

And if done right they leverage the other band for the uplink.  So for example your AP provides 5ghz to clients but uses the 2.4 band to talk to other AP for its uplink.  But to be honest its kind of a useless feature as well - wireless uplink is not going to be great connectivity for the wireless clients using the AP that is on a wireless uplink.

 

AP should really always be wired with connection exceeding the max wifi bandwidth it can provide.

[sc302 Veteran]

The reason for that is a quality norm that requires, in certain environments, the devices to be powered via PoE; the biggest problem i've seen with those is the crazy ass prices: Cisco PoE switch is 1k+, so using that in a home setup is nonsense.

You can get a 10 port sg300 for well under 1000 that is poe capable. Also ubiquiti offers switches that are less than 1000 that are poe.

But some aps do come with power injectors..I know the ubiquiti's do.

[+BudMan MVC]

In a home setup I would think you would mostly see POE with injector - unless you had a big home and need of multiple AP or you were going to setup voip phones that were poe I don't see much use of poe in the home at the switch level..  But you can for sure it do it way cheaper than 1k$  But poe is very handy to deploy AP in the home - but would just use injector -  best cost with the 1 or 2 poe devices that might be deployed in the home normally.

 

Here is a sg300 10 POE for 315 http://www.amazon.com/Cisco-SG-300-10MP-SRW2008MP-K9-NA-10-Port/dp/B0041ORN8I

 

My AP is poe, and gig over poe is not an issue or anything special.  It came with the injector..  My sg300 was less than 200 non poe.  As mentioned the unifi have some poe switches for cheaper - but not sure I would think they are home use, 24 ports is a lot of ports for home hehehe  And its close to 500$ it a bit high for home.. But they have a 5 port edge route that has poe that is under $200 that would be a great fit for the home setup.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-ERPOE-5-EdgeRouter-Adapter/dp/B00E77N3WE

[remixedcat]

My managed PoE switch:

DGS-1210-10P: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127334