Mindovermaster Moderator Posted January 8, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2015 Tom's Hardware says your wrong: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd-raid-benchmark,3485-3.html PC World Article: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2365767/feed-your-greed-for-speed-by-installing-ssds-in-raid-0.html Oh, I was thinking HDD's. OK, I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason S. Global Moderator Posted January 8, 2015 Global Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2015 DDR4 is just barely coming to market. DDR5 isn't even on the horizon, I'm not even sure if it's possible. One of the reasons they used 1, 2, 3, & 4 had to do with the number of times the CPU could poll the memory during a clock cycle. With DDR4 you hit the final unpolled part of the cycle. Someone please correct me if that's wrong though. If he were to upgrade his CPU he'd have to upgrade the motherboard as well. i'm fairly confident that's not correct. Double Data Rate means that data can be accessed on both the rising and falling clock cycle. This is where they got DDR. Even though the RAM is running at, say, 800MHz, it appears to be 1600MHz. The group that makes the RAM (whatever it's called) just stuck w/ the nomenclature. DDR2 must be better than DDR, right? and so on... Havent heard back from the OP... disappeared and there's 2 pages of input! I'd like to know if he has a budget. That system, while old, will still hold up in modern games. If there's no budget, then i'd simply suggest overclocking that CPU. I used to have that one; it's super easy to overclock. Aergan 1 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneKnee Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I would say give it a little overclock if you are noticing performance issues and save up for Broadwell/Skylake. To those who will say "Well, why wait? Technology is constantly evolving", that's very true, but Broadwell was delayed and Skylate is still on target for the Q3 2015. I would say he should definitely wait at this stage and get an SSD and use that in a new build later this year. To anyone who says SSD's aren't worth it. Op, please understand that SSD's are the single biggest and noticeable upgrade you can do to a computer. It's not all about how fast it can load up levels in the game or starts up Photoshop etc it makes the whole system more responsive as the CPU isn't waiting as long to get data off an hard drive. The hard drive is the single slowest point in a computer and affects the whole performance of the machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 To those who will say "Well, why wait? Technology is constantly evolving", that's very true, but Broadwell was delayed and Skylate is still on target for the Q3 2015. I would say he should definitely wait at this stage and get an SSD and use that in a new build later this year. All latest Intel CPUs have always been "on target", until they magically delay them a few months before the planned release. To anyone who says SSD's aren't worth it. Op, please understand that SSD's are the single biggest and noticeable upgrade you can do to a computer. It's not all about how fast it can load up levels in the game or starts up Photoshop etc it makes the whole system more responsive as the CPU isn't waiting as long to get data off an hard drive. The hard drive is the single slowest point in a computer and affects the whole performance of the machine. I said that SSDs weren't worth it in my case, since the large ones are still expensive and I have hundreds of GBs of dev software installed (but it would be the same if I worked with HD videos or installed the latest AAA games that waste tons of gigabytes). And it was in answer to a comment that said something on the lines of "anybody who doesn't use them clearly hasn't used them". If my machine is never turned off, most of the stuff stays cached in RAM and my HDD is a decently fast enterprise model then the 300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindovermaster Moderator Posted January 8, 2015 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2015 I said that SSDs weren't worth it in my case, since the large ones are still expensive and I have hundreds of GBs of dev software installed (but it would be the same if I worked with HD videos or installed the latest AAA games that waste tons of gigabytes). And it was in answer to a comment that said something on the lines of "anybody who doesn't use them clearly hasn't used them". If my machine is never turned off, most of the stuff stays cached in RAM and my HDD is a decently fast enterprise model then the 300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 8, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 8, 2015 Using SSD as your windows install drive is a MUST. it is just so much better. i also like to use SSD for torrents and for game installs. everything else goes on regular cheap hdd (any data, movies, music, work) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybonaut Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I want all installed programs on the same drive as Windows. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Edit: I'm playing at 1920x1200 Resolution, I won't ever switch to 4K because I do not need a larger monitor than 24 inches. What does resolution have to do with size? you may say so now, but even if you never get a bigger monitor, you will eventually get a 4k monitor, maybe not in the next two years, but it'll happen. Using SSD as your windows install drive is a MUST. it is just so much better. i also like to use SSD for torrents and for game installs. everything else goes on regular cheap hdd (any data, movies, music, work) Game installs I can understand, well a few of them, not all certainly but moving 1 or 2 that is heavily depended on HDD loading(this generally only applies to MMO's who stream load, but also some other large seamless game area games, games with loading screens I'm less bothered about) but Torrents ? why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 8, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 8, 2015 But Torrents, Why? I had a mechanical hard drives fail every year with my torrents. I seed a lot. I have had a dedicated SSD for seeding for 2 years.. no problem so far. so i like SSD Inertia and MorganX 2 Share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I had a mechanical hard drives fail every year with my torrents. I seed a lot. I have had a dedicated SSD for seeding for 2 years.. no problem so far. so i like SSD Get better HDD's. HDD's can run for years seeding and downloading torrents without failing. even cheap crap ones. your failures are most likely bad luck and not related to the type of drive, could just as well have been a SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Why? Simpler backups, and not having to mix data and program files so I can replace the disks freely (I use HDD racks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astra.Xtreme Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I got two 250GB Samsung EVO 840's for $120 each. I think that's quite reasonable. They are now in a RAID 0, which gives me ~500GB of SSD space for $240...at nearly double the speed of a single SSD. You lose TRIM in RAID0, which is something to be careful with. Also, if the RAID breaks, then everything is gone on both drives (obviously). I had SSDs in RAID0 at one point, and it just wasn't worth it for those reasons. The transfer speeds were neat to see on benchmarks, but it didn't really amount to anything actually valuable. Regardless, today it's to the point where it's actually cheaper to buy one 500GB SSD over two 240GB ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You lose TRIM in RAID0, which is something to be careful with. Also, if the RAID breaks, then everything is gone on both drives (obviously). I had SSDs in RAID0 at one point, and it just wasn't worth it for those reasons. The transfer speeds were neat to see on benchmarks, but it didn't really amount to anything actually valuable. Regardless, today it's to the point where it's actually cheaper to buy one 500GB SSD over two 240GB ones. Astra, you do not lose Trim with Raid 0 anymore. Intel has supported Trim in Raid zero since the series 7 chipsets. If you have a series 7 or higher, it supports trim. I have verified this with trimcheck: http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/trimcheck-does-your-ssd-really-have-trim-working/. You are correct about the lack of protection but this is the same level of risk as a solo drive, if a drive dies you los everything. That's what Macrium Reflect free edition and File History is for ;>. At 1GBs R/W I say go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 9, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 9, 2015 Get better HDD's. HDD's can run for years seeding and downloading torrents without failing. even cheap crap ones. your failures are most likely bad luck and not related to the type of drive, could just as well have been a SSD. not true, i was already buying enterprise level hdd... still they failed. cannot be a coincidence, since having failures all the time, to no problem, immediately after i switched to SSD. i have to say i have fiber optics, so the speed are uncannily fast.... mechanical drives just do not handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 not true, i was already buying enterprise level hdd... still they failed. cannot be a coincidence, since having failures all the time, to no problem, immediately after i switched to SSD. i have to say i have fiber optics, so the speed are uncannily fast.... mechanical drives just do not handle it. of course it can be coincidence, your sample pool is 2 HDDs, it could be 6 and still be coincidence. buying enterprise is no guarantee against random failures, and depending on brand... (cough Seagate cough). heck I have a samplerate several times that that says HDDs can withstand constant read/write of gigabytes a week and other abuse in a hot httpc case full of dust and they wont ever fail fiber optic what though? internet ? unless you're in Japan the HDD is still faster ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 9, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 9, 2015 of course it fiber optic what though? internet ? unless you're in Japan the HDD is still faster ;p you joke? the internet is faster then 20 MG per sec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
survivegamers Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 OP I will just say that most of your gear looks to be fine but here is the reality of things: The fastest gains you will see are from getting an SSD even as a secondary drive. Put your games on that drive. The next bottleneck in gaming comes from your video card. And finally the last one comes from RAM. My suggest is to buy a 128 GB SAMSUNG EVO 840 and put your games on that. Next switch out your RAM and get 2 8GB paired chips, the speed is not really that relevant, just make sure its compatible with your motherboard. Finally get a new video card. The Nvidia GTX 9XX series are pretty damn good and they have a really good price to performance ratio. Astra, you do not lose Trim with Raid 0 anymore. Intel has supported Trim in Raid zero since the series 7 chipsets. If you have a series 7 or higher, it supports trim. I have verified this with trimcheck: http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/trimcheck-does-your-ssd-really-have-trim-working/. You are correct about the lack of protection but this is the same level of risk as a solo drive, if a drive dies you los everything. That's what Macrium Reflect free edition and File History is for ;>. At 1GBs R/W I say go for it! I had two vertex drives in stripe raid and noticed essentially no benefit over having the drives in just normal non-raid configuration. This is because you can really only take advantage of the 1gbps read/write speed when its sequential and for gaming purposes that's not really all that beneficial. However if you want to make yourself an SQL server, it might have some drastic benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 OP I will just say that most of your gear looks to be fine but here is the reality of things: The fastest gains you will see are from getting an SSD even as a secondary drive. Put your games on that drive. The next bottleneck in gaming comes from your video card. And finally the last one comes from RAM. My suggest is to buy a 128 GB SAMSUNG EVO 840 and put your games on that. Next switch out your RAM and get 2 8GB paired chips, the speed is not really that relevant, just make sure its compatible with your motherboard. Finally get a new video card. The Nvidia GTX 9XX series are pretty damn good and they have a really good price to performance ratio. I had two vertex drives in stripe raid and noticed essentially no benefit over having the drives in just normal non-raid configuration. This is because you can really only take advantage of the 1gbps read/write speed when its sequential and for gaming purposes that's not really all that beneficial. However if you want to make yourself an SQL server, it might have some drastic benefits. I agree with that. In fact, one game I had to remove from the SSD array. Things were jumping on screen out of nowhere. it seemed as though loading was out of sync. UE3. Putting it on a single SSD resolved the issue. But the difference even over an SSD is quite noticeable in app load times and particularly loading large images into Photoshop. I don't do much video edition but I would imagine that would be a huge application that would gain great benefit. If it reads from disk, you will notice the difference, it is however, not as significant as the move from physical HD to SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganX Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 This is because you can really only take advantage of the 1gbps read/write speed when its sequential and for gaming purposes that's not really all that beneficial. Just wanted to clarify, two high quality SSDs in Raid 0 will give you 1GBytess transfer speed using two 6Gbs channels in parallel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Zagadka Subscriber² Posted January 10, 2015 Subscriber² Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'd wait until DX12 native cards come out. Things won't be that demanding for a while, since so many game are coded for the consoles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 I'd wait until DX12 native cards come out. Things won't be that demanding for a while, since so many game are coded for the consoles. Are the GTX970-980 cards native DX12 cards? The nvidia website says yes but it seems way too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkMan Posted January 10, 2015 Share Posted January 10, 2015 you joke? the internet is faster then 20 MG per sec What ? assuming you meant MB, what HDD's did you use? ancient stuff ? a WB Red(which aren't the faster, but supposedly more reliable and designed for NAS) has 600MBps transfer speed external and 150MBps transfer speed internal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+E.Worm Jimmy Subscriber¹ Posted January 10, 2015 Subscriber¹ Share Posted January 10, 2015 What ? assuming you meant MB, what HDD's did you use? ancient stuff ? typo. i meant my download and upload speed were reaching 20MB/s and the Torrent program continuesly complained about HHD overload. Only throttled to about 12MB/s i stopped getting the message. since it was torrents it was not a continuous read - but random read and writes from a lot of places on the drive at ones. The enterprise harddrives lasted longer, yet i had 6 harddrive fail (4 consumer and 2 enterprise) over 3 maybe 3.5 years. and computer is top of the line pc, with good cooling, so this could not have being an issue. in next 2 years, my SSD is holding up well so far under the same conditions, so i trust them more. i could be very unlucky with mechanical drives, and 6 drives in 3 years? each on what a brand new current WD drive as i had problems with seagate over the years. hmmm.. what are the chances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc2k Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Are the GTX970-980 cards native DX12 cards? The nvidia website says yes but it seems way too early. Nope. They'll support the software features, but not the hardware ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francescob Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Nope. They'll support the software features, but not the hardware ones. Any news that confirm that? I was skeptic too but I read the cards support both the 11.3 and 12.0 feature sets, it's even written on Wikipedia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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