What Software Keeps You From Migrating - Compatibility Failures

By PGHammer
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Grand Master

PGHammer

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Okay - as opposed to UI/UX issues, what software issues (specifically compatibility) are keeping you from switching whole-hog to Windows 10 (albeit in Technical Preview form) at this point?

It's a fair question - remember, this OS is supposed to replace whatever version of Windows you use today.

In my case, it's DC Universe Online (Daybreak Games), and specifically, the DCUO Launcher. An MMO doesn't work when the client has connectivity issues - and the Launcher will NOT connect from Windows 10 Technical Preview (not even a version of said Launcher merely launched FROM Windows 10 builds, let alone installed on them). It is - literally - the ONLY software I have that despises the Technical Preview entirely. (And it's not unique to the native Launcher; the Steam version of the Launcher won't work, either - and it's the ONLY game out of all those I have that has this issue.) Installs just fine - but won't connect to the game servers.

The fact that other games - including EVERY other game I play on Steam or otherwise - works just fine makes me wonder how SOE (which wrote the Launcher) did it wrong (and left the issue for Daybreak to fix).

Even more telling, all my games I play on Origin (Steam's competition) work fine. (Yes - that INCLUDES Titanfall and SimCity 2013.)

If it weren't for this one game, I would have migrated whole-hog with 9926 - the compatibility and performance is THAT good elsewhere.

Hence the topic AND the question.

Grand Master

sc302 Veteran

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validation/qualification equipment/software not designed to function with windows 10.  you wouldn't want to risk it with what I am doing, it could kill you if not tested properly...the company will sell me new equipment and software tested for the new oses but they will not test this equipment/software combo with the newest version of windows.  cost for replacing/upgrading equates to more than most houses per individual piece of equipment.  anyone want to give us a few hundred thousand to upgrade 1 piece of equipment, we have about 70 that need to be replaced if that is the case...no?  looks like I am stuck with xp until catastrophic failure or until the equipment lives past its usefulness.

 

I work in manufacturing, the office equipment that is connected to the internet will be updated...however anything in the manufacturing process has been tested and verified that it is functioning with the existing oses, these are standalone, not networked, will not change.  You want to ingest something that was created on something that is not tested or validated properly by the equipment manufacturer?...you probably wouldn't, you could get sick or die if the environment deviates too much from normal (this is worst case scenario, but that is what we deal with when bringing unknown/untested/not manufacturer approved equipment/software into manufacturing, the consumer would blame us for not using the proper equipment aka lawsuit).  

Grand Master

PGHammer

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Its good I read this, I do play that game from time to time. Let me ask this have you tried running the game launcher in compatibility mode for Windows 7 or 8?

I have - and even with Compatibility Mode (Windows 8 or Windows 7) checked, it won't work. (The rather odd thing is that it works in Windows 8.1 just fine (without Compatibility Mode) - and always has.) It's also why I tried the Steam version of the Launcher - as every other Steam/Steamworks game has worked as well.

The failure is in connecting to the servers - it never does. It's something that is a complaint in the Support Forums at Daybreak (and SOE before that) as well.

It is decidedly behavior in the connectivity software that the game servers don't like - and it's common to the Launchpad (what Daybreak, and SOE before that, called the common client for all the SOE/Daybreak IP). To me, it's a roadblock - and why my 8.x partition even exists.

Hence why I'm tracking this issue from every angle - on tech sites, and on the Daybreak forums as well. This is - literally - THE holdup.

Grand Master

PGHammer

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validation/qualification equipment/software not designed to function with windows 10.  you wouldn't want to risk it with what I am doing, it could kill you if not tested properly...the company will sell me new equipment and software tested for the new oses but they will not test this equipment/software combo with the newest version of windows.  cost for replacing/upgrading equates to more than most houses per individual piece of equipment.  anyone want to give us a few hundred thousand to upgrade 1 piece of equipment, we have about 70 that need to be replaced if that is the case...no?  looks like I am stuck with xp until catastrophic failure or until the equipment lives past its usefulness.

sc302 - that is PRECISELY why I asked the question.

This isn't my first time running into a compatibility issue with sole-source software - however, it HAS been over a decade.

The last time I ran into this sort of issue is when the enterprise I was working for got put over a barrel regarding line-of-business software (specifically per-seat licensing FOR said software) when we were in the process of upgrading the client OS for the entire enterprise (from NT 4 Workstation to 2000 Professional). The issue was a single DLL that required a change - however, the bill for that change across all the enterprise's seats was rather large - the IT equivalent of "blackmail". (It's the sort of thing that generally involves lawyers. You know you're going to pay, and so does the other side - the question is "how much" - however, it's still blackmail, even if it IS legal.)

And it is the same sort of thing that leads to "I don't want to move" among enterprises when it comes to software - they don't want to be blackmailed any more than anyone else does - however, they have far fewer options for dealing with blackmailers.

Grand Master

Dot Matrix

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validation/qualification equipment/software not designed to function with windows 10.  you wouldn't want to risk it with what I am doing, it could kill you if not tested properly...the company will sell me new equipment and software tested for the new oses but they will not test this equipment/software combo with the newest version of windows.  cost for replacing/upgrading equates to more than most houses per individual piece of equipment.  anyone want to give us a few hundred thousand to upgrade 1 piece of equipment, we have about 70 that need to be replaced if that is the case...no?  looks like I am stuck with xp until catastrophic failure or until the equipment lives past its usefulness.

 

I work in manufacturing, the office equipment that is connected to the internet will be updated...however anything in the manufacturing process has been tested and verified that it is functioning with the existing oses, these are standalone, not networked, will not change.  You want to ingest something that was created on something that is not tested or validated properly by the equipment manufacturer?...you probably wouldn't, you could get sick or die if the environment deviates too much from normal (this is worst case scenario, but that is what we deal with when bringing unknown/untested/not manufacturer approved equipment/software into manufacturing, the consumer would blame us for not using the proper equipment aka lawsuit).  

Production applications I think are an exemption at this point. That said, if you're still running applications that require Windows 7, or worse, Windows XP, it's time to start looking at upgrading, or in the case that the application is no longer supported, move to a new vendor.

 

I have no applications personally holding me back, personally. In the case of old games, I usually dual boot.  

Grand Master

farmeunit

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In an educational environment, there are LOTS of older, incompatible programs.  We've seen a lot more on Win8/8.1 than in Win7.  We moved to Win8, though, because of 1:1 devices running Windows 8.1, to prepare.  Then to Win8.1 as soon as it was supported by our desktop management software (ZENworks).

 

I don't we'll move to Windows 10 for a while.  One, for ZENworks support.  Second, we've upgraded from XP to Win7 2.5 years ago, then Win8 the next and now to Win8.1 this year.  Third, program compatibility.  

 

Maybe they'll improve software support in Win10, but not holding my breath.  Education just moves to slowly.  Part of it is money.  We're going more web-based, so it costs more yearly than just buying outright.  Sometimes it's convenience, sometimes the software companies are just flat dropping the software version and moving to web.  Still, we're spending more than before, so can't afford other things.

 

Sometimes, it's not just the OS.  Say Win10 introduces the new IE.  It'll take another year or two for companies to support that.  Yes we could upgrade and it might even work, but if the browser isn't "supported", then we're out of luck with help.

Grand Master

PGHammer

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Thread cleaned. Please keep this thread on the topic described in the first post.

Thanks.

The reason I started this thread is because it seems like all the other Windows 10-related threads have degenerated into rage about everything else BUT the biggest issue facing any new OS - compatibility with software running on the current version of the same OS. And given that this is the future version of Windows, it will be backward-compatibility with previous versions of Windows that will be the measuring stick - and it should be.

The case of DCUO (and the Daybreak Game Launcher) is still the last thing keeping my Windows 8.x partition (for compatibility purposes) around - and I stated that quite bluntly, and why. That so little has broken is rather astonishing, as backward-compatibility has typically been a bugbear when it comes to Windows. (How badly did Windows 7 get dinged for the same issue - and far later into the testing cycle?)

Grand Master

binaryzero

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It's the applications developers responsibility to make sure their application works on a new platform, which is pretty much the reason they do OS testing. It's not so home users can whinge and moan about icons. 

 

If an application doesn't work, report it to the vendor and let them know, and they'll probably respond telling you they're aware of it and that the OS isn't supported yet.

 

And Windows doesn't have to be 100% backwards compatible (some is expected), else you'd have a ton of legacy code in there that I'd be happy to see go. Lean and mean is nice. If you have an application that isn't working as expected, wait for an application update that fixes this issue before you upgrade your OS. 

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

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I've not found any apps that don't work so far, so really, the only thing stopping me actually switching to Windows 10 for now is... Windows 10 itself!  It's not finished yet, and for me at least, it's not stable enough to be a daily driver. :p

 

Once it goes gold though, and is available on MSDN, that's when I'll be making the switch.

Grand Master

neo1911

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I've not found any apps that don't work so far, so really, the only thing stopping me actually switching to Windows 10 for now is... Windows 10 itself!  It's not finished yet, and for me at least, it's not stable enough to be a daily driver. :p

 

Once it goes gold though, and is available on MSDN, that's when I'll be making the switch.

 

This 10041 build is stable enough for me to be a daily driver. I don't play games. But few family members do play farmville 2 and they work very well.

 

So far, every single app (outside the app store) which I need works very well. Even the problematic software like iTunes 12 has no issues in installing drivers and syncing. 

 

BTW who uses Windows app store?  :p The first thing I do is un-pin that tile.

Grand Master

PGHammer

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I've not found any apps that don't work so far, so really, the only thing stopping me actually switching to Windows 10 for now is... Windows 10 itself!  It's not finished yet, and for me at least, it's not stable enough to be a daily driver. :p

 

Once it goes gold though, and is available on MSDN, that's when I'll be making the switch.

Floating, except for the game I referenced, it IS a daily driver (that one issue is why it isn't my main OS).

It's a daily driver for the reasons that make sense - it is more stable, and has better performance, than 8.1 (which performed better than 8, that performed better than 7, etc.).

This one company's games are the fly in the potion, and the ONLY fly at that.

Still, thanks for what you have said, as there actually IS another reason for this thread - I had been wondering why I had been hearing the WAAMbulance basically since 9841.

Basically, the complaints about the UI/UX (including the icons) are all that there IS to be complained about. The typical (at least up to 7) bugbear when it came to pre-release versions of Windows had been, in fact, backward-compatibility; as much as Windows 8 had been complained about, it wasn't in terms of that (which certainly was NOT the case with 7, or Vista, or even XP - which was, in fact, relatively decent in that area). This run of backward-compatibility homers (three consecutive) is normally as rare as a single player winning consecutive UEFA Golden Boots (the scoring title in UEFA play during the season) - and that's for any OS. For Microsoft to do it is right up there with "What are you smoking - and can I have some?" (WAY out there in Wrong Field.)

Grand Master

PGHammer

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On one of my PCs, my soundcard: M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI only works on Windows 7 and older, so I'm stuck with 7 until a new driver surfaces. 

 

That's about it.

I take it you have no PCI-Express x1 slots in that PC? If you do, I can recommend any PCI Express Creative audio card EXCEPT the Audigy SE - the Audigy SE gets dissed due to it NOT having an audio DSP, and thus offering no performance OR price advantage over Creative PCI Express audio solutions that do.

Grand Master

FloatingFatMan

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Floating, except for the game I referenced, it IS a daily driver (that one issue is why it isn't my main OS).

It's a daily driver for the reasons that make sense - it is more stable, and has better performance, than 8.1 (which performed better than 8, that performed better than 7, etc.).

This one company's games are the fly in the potion, and the ONLY fly at that.

Still, thanks for what you have said, as there actually IS another reason for this thread - I had been wondering why I had been hearing the WAAMbulance basically since 9841.

Basically, the complaints about the UI/UX (including the icons) are all that there IS to be complained about. The typical (at least up to 7) bugbear when it came to pre-release versions of Windows had been, in fact, backward-compatibility; as much as Windows 8 had been complained about, it wasn't in terms of that (which certainly was NOT the case with 7, or Vista, or even XP - which was, in fact, relatively decent in that area). This run of backward-compatibility homers (three consecutive) is normally as rare as a single player winning consecutive UEFA Golden Boots (the scoring title in UEFA play during the season) - and that's for any OS. For Microsoft to do it is right up there with "What are you smoking - and can I have some?" (WAY out there in Wrong Field.)

 

No offence, but whilst it might be good enough for you, for me, I'm having problems.

 

The XBox app doesn't load, it just crashes.

Cortana is unable to access the internet.

The store app has CTD'd several times.

Start menu is slow to respond.

 

Now, some of this might be due to running on a VM, but until I have a spare machine to try it natively, I can only conclude that, for me, it's not stable enough yet to use as a daily driver.

Grand Master

DeusProto

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I take it you have no PCI-Express x1 slots in that PC? If you do, I can recommend any PCI Express Creative audio card EXCEPT the Audigy SE - the Audigy SE gets dissed due to it NOT having an audio DSP, and thus offering no performance OR price advantage over Creative PCI Express audio solutions that do.

 

 

Well my setup is such that there's no replacement for this card in PCI-E. I do have PCI-E slots.

 

See the rear I/O panel of this I depend on the RCA ins and outs and also have software dependent on the MIDI interface and is tied to this card:

 

I also am attached to it because it has a very high quality DAC - Envy24 which is used in very high end AV receivers because of its quality: 

 

audiophile2496p2.jpg

Grand Master

PGHammer

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No offence, but whilst it might be good enough for you, for me, I'm having problems.

 

The XBox app doesn't load, it just crashes.

Cortana is unable to access the internet.

The store app has CTD'd several times.

Start menu is slow to respond.

 

Now, some of this might be due to running on a VM, but until I have a spare machine to try it natively, I can only conclude that, for me, it's not stable enough yet to use as a daily driver.

Fair enough, Floating.

 

I'm running it native (actually, two native installs - each on a separate partition; Pro on one, and Enterprise on the other).  There is simply way too much in the way of application software (let alone game software) that precludes running in a VM, simply for compatibility reasons.  I also have a VM of Enterprise for testing software that DOES work properly in a VM.

 

Part of the issue I have with VM-only testing is that it can cause its own issues - some software simply does not work properly in a VM.

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