Why is the start menu so slow and unreliable?

By Defcon
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

 Share

Recommended Posts

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

  • DeusProto and francescob
  • Like 2
Grand Master

FunkyMike

Posted
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

They changed the Start Menu to XAML which for whatever reason is prone to crashes (inclusive of killing Universal Apps or vice versa) and performance issues for some people.

 

It seems like the Start Menu on the Windows Server Tech Preview is not based on XAML. 

 

I think someone on MDL tried to port it over.

Collaborator

Seketh

Posted
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

Are you serious or just trolling?

 

Because Windows 10 is not complete. You're using a preview. That's it.

  • oliver182, robertwnielsen and Aergan
  • Like 3
Grand Master

Aergan

Posted
Posted

Windows can have serious issues with indexing / caching items in shortcut / target based menus and has since Vista. I'm not surprised at all.

 

I'm sure they'll optimise it to a point where the average person won't run into any trouble but enterprise and power users will.

Mentor

SharpGreen

Posted
Posted

The startmenu is running in a separate process now because of Cortana. In all other versions of Windows it is just a window in explorer.exe.

You were right about it being in a separate process, but it has nothing to do with Cortana. The reasoning I saw (somewhere I don't remember) was for ease of updating.

Grand Master

MikeChipshop Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

I'm running 10 on two different machines. One of them, a self built Intel based desktop office brute of a machine, has no issues at all. The other, a crappy Toshiba lappy, has huge issues with the start menu failing all the time.

 

So to answer your question, i don;t have the foggiest :p

Grand Master

FunkyMike

Posted
Posted

I'm running 10 on two different machines. One of them, a self built Intel based desktop office brute of a machine, has no issues at all. The other, a crappy Toshiba lappy, has huge issues with the start menu failing all the time.

 

So to answer your question, i don;t have the foggiest :p

 

Am currently putting together a bug report on why the Start Menu is failing all the time on some specific devices.

 

Do you mind posting the specs of the laptop? Seems like processor and graphics cards is what I need.

Grand Master

MikeChipshop Member

Posted
  • Member
Posted

Am currently putting together a bug report on why the Start Menu is failing all the time on some specific devices.

 

Do you mind posting the specs of the laptop? Seems like processor and graphics cards is what I need.

 

Will do when i get home!

Grand Master

+Eternal Tempest MVC

Posted
  • MVC
Posted

It was supposed to RTM in June/July last I heard....

 

It's possible MS is testing / developing builds not released to the public that has this issue fixed.

Proficient

eiffel_g

Posted
Posted

Nope. You hear it wrong.

RTM will be ready at the beginning of Jully - it was supposed to be June, but there are some delays.

 

In September ( around 20 ) it will be the OFFICIAL launch of Windows 10.

 

It was always like this for the reason that there is a 2-3  months delay for the producers ( OEm Integrators ) to make tests, an prepares to launch the devcies with Windows at the official launch. Usually the same day there are also some updates in WU with fixes wich have not been ready for RTM, or with what issues manufactures have found durng their production.

 

Like that, at the offical launch you will have also some devices with Windows 10 in shops.

 

Now, back on topic - I did't have problems with start menu, other than bad design. It still a lot to work to made it at least the way it was in first previews - without XAML.

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ok, so -

 

- its a separate process, not part of explorer.exe (which is always running)

- its in XAML (all XAML/Metro apps have a big performance penalty - just try to run the new calc and see how long it takes to load)

- the actual app itself has a lot of changes

 

The first 2 reasons are enough reason to worry, even if they can fix these issues, its never going to be instant to open like before. Can't really say its a good decision, esp on lower en d hardware the difference is easily noticeable. 

 

And to those who keep saying 'its not done yet', give it a rest. 6 months of updates and even the most basic issues haven't been fixed, compared to the very first TP there's hardly anything improved.

  • WndSks and FunkyMike
  • Like 2
Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Look in task manager details tab -

 

- Start menu not open, searchui.exe is suspended

- Start menu open, searchui.exe is running

 

Like any other Modern app.

 

this explains why it takes so long for it to open. This is a terrible design. It makes no sense to suspend the app as soon as I close the start menu! In fact it should never be unloaded, its such a basic part of the experience.

 

This is typical of MS treating the desktop as a mobile phone on. On my desktop with 8GB of memory, it makes NO sense to suspend apps. The OS can manage hundreds of active apps and they get swapped out as needed. Same problem exists with any Metro app like Skype, it makes no sense to run them on a desktop/laptop. It has true multitasking, not a model where only one modern app can run at a time. What a disaster.

  • WndSks and FunkyMike
  • Like 2
Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

Look in task manager details tab -

 

- Start menu not open, searchui.exe is suspended

- Start menu open, searchui.exe is running

 

Like any other Modern app.

 

this explains why it takes so long for it to open.

 

Can you elaborate on why the running vs suspended state switch would be expected to give a major performance hit?

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Can you elaborate on why the running vs suspended state switch would be expected to give a major performance hit?

Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

This delay is seen in any smartphone, when you switch to an app and you can see a delay as it loads, vs those apps that are still running.

Veteran

Ian S.

Posted
Posted

You heard wrong, By the end of summer, which goes all the way up to the end of September.

No... People have been saying end of July for RTM.

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
Posted

Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

By "swapped out", do you mean that the data is written to the hard disk and then purged from active memory?

Collaborator

WndSks

Posted
Posted

Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

It's a bit hard to know what exactly happens with these hybrid metro apps but a normal win32 app can also be suspended on every version of NT (Right-click a process in Process Explorer) and that just means that its threads are ignored by the scheduler so they never get to run any code, it does not affect memory in any way but as a result of not running some of its pages might be swapped out or discarded if the machine is running out of memory. Resuming the process again should not be that slow so I think you have to blame the slowness on something else, probably XAML/WinRT or just bad design and/or implementation/code...

This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Posts

    • JBL BAR 800 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos soundbar is an amazing deal today

      By hellowalkman · Posted

      JBL BAR 800 5.1.2 Dolby Atmos soundbar is an amazing deal today by Sayan Sen This Amazon Prime Day 2026 sales so far we have had a couple of nice deals related to sound and audio. First we have the Sennheiser HD 600 at its lowest ever price of just $225. Next we also have the Beats Studio Pro at its lowest price ever at just $150. However perhaps you prefer your gear to sound great on a larger scale, like throughout the room. In that case an all-in-one soundbar system can help and currently JBL's BAR 800 is a great deal for sure as it's up for grabs at just $600 (purchase link under the specs table down below). One thing that should be appreciated a lot about these JBL soundbars is their spec sheet and the frequency response data it provides. The firm is honest about it as JBL confirms the subwoofer is able to go down to 35 Hz at -6dB or F6. This means it should be covering 40Hz and up very well, where most of the bass lies. You miss out on a lot of sub-bass but that is to be expected given the price point and the subwoofer driver size. Speaking of which, it is a 10-inch driver and promises a max output power of 300 watts at 1% THD (total harmonic distortion). JBL also claims the system will provide you with a "True Dolby Atmos" experience. The surround speakers are wireless and battery-powered which means setting them up should be really convenient. The technical specs of the JBL BAR 800 are given in the table below: Specification Value Channel Configuration 5.1.2-channel soundbar system Dolby Atmos Yes, with 2 up-firing drivers Total System Power Output 720 W Soundbar Power Output 340 W Surround Speaker Power Output 2 × 40 W Subwoofer Power Output 300 W Soundbar Drivers 3 × 46×90 mm racetrack drivers, 3 × 20 mm tweeters, 2 × 70 mm up-firing full-range drivers Surround Speaker Drivers 1 × 46×90 mm racetrack driver (each speaker) Subwoofer Driver 10-inch (260 mm) wireless subwoofer Frequency Response 35 Hz – 20 kHz (-6 dB) Audio Inputs Optical, Bluetooth, Chromecast built-in, AirPlay, Alexa Multi-Room Music (MRM), USB* HDMI Inputs 1 HDMI video input HDMI Output 1 HDMI eARC output HDCP Version 2.3 HDR Pass-Through HDR10, Dolby Vision Bluetooth Version 5.0 Wi-Fi Version 6, 6E Streaming Services Chromecast built-in, Apple AirPlay, Alexa MRM Get it at the link below: JBL Bar 800-5.1.2-Channel Dolby Atmos soundbar with Detachable Surround Speakers (Black): $599.85 (Sold and Shipped by Amazon US with Prime) Prime subscription can be cancelled within three business days. Good to know This Amazon deal is U.S. specific, and not available in other regions unless specified. We only use first-party seller links (at the time of article publishing); ensure that you purchase from a first-party seller link only. Check out Today's Deals on Amazon | or our recent tech deals. Become a Prime member (for Students or SNAP) via Neowin Get Prime Access - Prime for half price (for qualifying Medicaid, EBT, SNAP) Subscribe to Prime Video, Audible Plus, Music Unlimited or Kindle Unlimited via Neowin As an Amazon Associate, we earn from qualifying purchases.
    • Microsoft releases PowerToys v0.100.1, fixes a bug that made remapped keys misbehave

      By Ivan Jenic · Posted

      Microsoft releases PowerToys v0.100.1, fixes a bug that made remapped keys misbehave by Ivan Jenic Microsoft just released PowerToys v0.100.1, a patch update that addresses several stability and behavior issues found in v0.100.0. The v0.100.0 patch was a significant update for PowerToys, as it introduced all sorts of new features and additions, such as a rebuilt Shortcut Guide, a Command Palette Extension Gallery, webcam overlay support in ZoomIt, and more. However, the v0.100.0 version also introduced some bugs and stability issues. And now, Microsoft is addressing these issues in the new patch. The most impactful fix in this release perhaps is in Keyboard Manager, where remapped modifier keys were being delivered as system-key events, causing unexpected behavior in apps. The clearest example of this was Alt-to-Backspace remaps, deleting whole words instead of a single character. So, if you thought there was an issue with your keyboard, Microsoft just confirmed that it was PowerToys. Beyond the Keyboard Manager fix, v0.100.1 also addresses several other issues. It fixes a bug with Power Display that was preventing monitors from waking from standby correctly. Additionally, the new update patches Quick Access crashes on launch, and resolves a Shortcut Guide crash that occurred when switching between sidebar sections. Here’s the full changelog: Color Picker Fixed a bug where the main Color Picker window could appear inside the zoomed-in picker view Command Palette Fixed Run history initialization in AOT builds Fixed a bug where the Performance Monitor dock item could show ??? after restart Fixed the Hibernate command using the Sleep icon Limited the "pin to dock" dialog to displays where the dock is enabled Keyboard Manager Fixed modifier keys remapped to non-modifier keys being delivered as system-key events, which caused unexpected behavior in apps such as Alt-to-Backspace deleting whole words Power Display Fixed a bug where selecting On in the monitor power-state control did not wake a monitor from standby Fixed built-in display detection and brightness control on dual-GPU laptops where the internal panel is driven by the discrete GPU PowerToys Run Fixed VS Code Workspaces discovery after VS Code moved recently opened workspace data to shared storage Quick Access Fixed Quick Access flyout crashes caused by unhandled XAML exceptions during launch or page navigation Shortcut Guide Fixed a crash when navigating between Shortcut Guide sidebar sections Fixed number-key rendering in shortcut manifests and added a Postman shortcut manifest Updated bundled shortcut manifests to use the literal number-key token so number keys render correctly across apps ZoomIt Fixed a race condition in audio initialization for ZoomIt video recording You can download PowerToys v0.100.1 from the official GitHub releases page.
    • OBS Studio 32.2.0 Beta 2

      By Copernic · Posted

      OBS Studio 32.2.0 Beta 2 by Razvan Serea OBS Studio is software designed for capturing, compositing, encoding, recording, and streaming video content, efficiently. It is the re-write of the widely used Open Broadcaster Software, to allow even more features and multi-platform support. OBS Studio supports multiple sources, including media files, games, web pages, application windows, webcams, your desktop, microphone and more. OBS Studio Features: High performance real time video/audio capturing and mixing, with unlimited scenes you can switch between seamlessly via custom transitions. Live streaming to Twitch, YouTube, Periscope, Mixer, GoodGame, DailyMotion, Hitbox, VK and any other RTMP server Filters for video sources such as image masking, color correction, chroma/color keying, and more. x264, H.264 and AAC for your live streams and video recordings Intel Quick Sync Video (QSV) and NVIDIA NVENC support Intuitive audio mixer with per-source filters such as noise gate, noise suppression, and gain. Take full control with VST plugin support. GPU-based game capture for high performance game streaming Unlimited number of scenes and sources Number of different and customizable transitions for when you switch between scenes Hotkeys for almost any action such as start or stop your stream or recording, push-to-talk, fast mute of any audio source, show or hide any video source, switch between scenes,and much more Live preview of any changes on your scenes and sources using Studio Mode before pushing them to your stream where your viewers will see those changes DirectShow capture device support (webcams, capture cards, etc) Powerful and easy to use configuration options. Add new Sources, duplicate existing ones, and adjust their properties effortlessly. Streamlined Settings panel for quickly configuring your broadcasts and recordings. Switch between different profiles with ease. Light and dark themes available to fit your environment. …and many other features. For free. At all. OBS Studio 32.2.0 Beta 2 changelog: Beta 2 Changes Fixed a CI deployment issue. There are no application changes since Beta 1. 32.2 New Features Replaced add source dropdown with new dialog [Warchamp7] Improved FPS selector UX [jcm93] Added missing file support for filters [exeldro] Added ability for plugins to set custom icons for new source types [cg2121] Included .webp files when adding a directory to Image Slide Show source [TarunCore] Added copy paste functions to frontend API [exeldro] Added filter to compose SDR into HDR [jpark37] Added delete as a hotkey to delete sources on macOS [PatTheMav] Added dynamic bitrate support to multitrack video [lexano-ivs] 32.2 Changes Forced Intel-based installations to update to Apple Silicon version on macOS [PatTheMav] This change means that OBS Studio versions built for Intel-based Macs but running on Apple Silicon Macs will automatically update to OBS Studio built for Apple Silicon Macs. If an installation was using third-party plugins, those plugins will no longer load until replaced with Apple Silicon versions. Fixed audio mixer state getting out of sync when changing settings via websockets or plugins [Warchamp7] Added theming for checked QToolButtons [glikely] Improved OpenGL performance slightly on low-end machines [kkartaltepe] Set minimum size for color source to 1 pixel [exeldro] Added minimum width to spinboxes [Warchamp7] Disallowed overwriting the crash handler [sebastian-s-beckmann] Applied process mitigation policies for Windows [notr1ch] Adjusted description of multitrack video [jhnbwrs] Changed new capture devices to use fallback frame rate by default [PatTheMav] Improved DLL loading behavior on Windows [notr1ch] Limited multitrack video config to Custom service [PatTheMav] 32.2 Bug Fixes Fixed OAuth and dock state save corruption [PatTheMav] Fixed group bounds not resizing when removing items [howellrl] Fixed canvas mixes not being restored after video reset [dsaedtler] Fixed some erroneous crashes during shutdown [Warchamp7] Fixed display capture sometimes capturing black after a duplicator failure [ThrowTop] Fixed color of controls dock output buttons in System theme [shiina424] Fixed virtual camera reset failures [stephematician] Fixed potential crash when user discards changes in the settings window [suogesi] Fixed incorrect return value in virtualcam filter [xtfo] Fixed source toolbar buttons not working after dragging a source into a group [Warchamp7] Fixed properties hint icon spacing [Warchamp7] Fixed potential crash when a video device reconnects on macOS [jcm93] Fixed an issue where PipeWire could fail on NVIDIA GPUs [hoshinolina] Fixed obs_canvas_get_video_info returning incorrect framerate [dsaedtler] 32.2 Deprecations Deprecated obs_properties_add_button [sebastian-s-beckmann] Download: OBS Studio 32.2.0 Beta 2 | Portable | ARM64 | ~200.0 MB (Open Source) View: OBS Studio Homepage | Other Operating Systems | Screenshot Get alerted to all of our Software updates on Twitter at @NeowinSoftware
    • Microsoft is building an AI datacenter that "uses less water than a fast food restaurant"

      By Slugsie · Posted

      Is a fast food restaurant a good metric to compare against?
    • Grand Theft Auto VI pricing revealed alongside Ultimate Edition and pre-loading details

      By LoneWolfSL · Posted

      Grand Theft Auto VI pricing revealed alongside Ultimate Edition and pre-loading details by Pulasthi Ariyasinghe Last week, Rockstar revealed Grand Theft Auto VI pre-orders will be starting soon, and just a day ahead of that, now the studio has announced the official pricing for the highly anticipated game. This has been a hotly debated topic among fans and industry veterans for a long time, considering the game is expected to be the biggest entertainment product launch ever. The confirmed pricing for the Grand Theft Auto VI standard edition is $79.99, which Rockstar says gives access to the "single-player experience set in the biggest, most immersive evolution of the series yet." This follows what most of our readers thought would happen with the pricing too. At the same time, a $99.99 Grand Theft Auto VI: Ultimate Edition has been confirmed as well, which lands with "an exclusive collection of premium vehicles, weapons, apparel, and action threaded across all aspects of Jason and Lucia’s story." Pre-ordering will also give fans extra bonuses, including a Vintage Vice City Pack of cosmetic items as well as a free month of GTA+. Head to the official website of the game here to check out all the cosmetic rewards the Ultimate Edition and pre-orders bring. Interestingly, the studio does not mention Grand Theft Auto VI multiplayer at all in today's announcement. Perhaps this will arrive later, following the campaign launch, or the studio is keeping that reveal for a later date. Digital pre-orders for Grand Theft Auto VI will begin on June 25, 2026, at midnight local time across regions for Xbox Series X|S and PlayStation 5. The title is slated to launch on November 19 on those same platforms. Pre-loading for Grand Theft Auto VI will kick off on November 12, giving players a week to get the game ready on their consoles. As for the physical edition, Take-Two has confirmed that this will be available without a disc, with the box only containing a download code inside. This will be purchasable starting November 12, giving players who take this route time to pre-load the title as well.

  • Recent Achievements

    • One Year In
      OHI Accounting earned a badge
      One Year In
    • First Post
      Almohandis earned a badge
      First Post
    • Rookie
      DaviKar went up a rank
      Rookie
    • Dedicated
      HidekoYamamoto94 earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • One Month Later
      timbobit earned a badge
      One Month Later

  • Popular Contributors

    1. 1
      +primortal
      474
    2. 2
      +Edouard
      172
    3. 3
      PsYcHoKiLLa
      122
    4. 4
      Michael Scrip
      83
    5. 5
      Xenon
      72
    Show More

  • Tell a friend

    Love Neowin? Tell a friend!