Why is the start menu so slow and unreliable?

By Defcon
in The Fast Ring (Insider Previews)

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Defcon

Posted
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Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

  • DeusProto and francescob
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Grand Master

FunkyMike

Posted
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

They changed the Start Menu to XAML which for whatever reason is prone to crashes (inclusive of killing Universal Apps or vice versa) and performance issues for some people.

 

It seems like the Start Menu on the Windows Server Tech Preview is not based on XAML. 

 

I think someone on MDL tried to port it over.

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Seketh

Posted
Posted

Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

Are you serious or just trolling?

 

Because Windows 10 is not complete. You're using a preview. That's it.

  • robertwnielsen, Aergan and oliver182
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Grand Master

Aergan

Posted
Posted

Windows can have serious issues with indexing / caching items in shortcut / target based menus and has since Vista. I'm not surprised at all.

 

I'm sure they'll optimise it to a point where the average person won't run into any trouble but enterprise and power users will.

Mentor

SharpGreen

Posted
Posted

The startmenu is running in a separate process now because of Cortana. In all other versions of Windows it is just a window in explorer.exe.

You were right about it being in a separate process, but it has nothing to do with Cortana. The reasoning I saw (somewhere I don't remember) was for ease of updating.

Grand Master

MikeChipshop Member

Posted
  • Member
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Half the time it won't open. When you type it takes forever to search. Search results aren't organized very well.

 

but the main concern is why can't it open instantly like it always used to ?! There are tons of complaints about this on the official forums as well.

 

I'm running 10 on two different machines. One of them, a self built Intel based desktop office brute of a machine, has no issues at all. The other, a crappy Toshiba lappy, has huge issues with the start menu failing all the time.

 

So to answer your question, i don;t have the foggiest :p

Grand Master

FunkyMike

Posted
Posted

I'm running 10 on two different machines. One of them, a self built Intel based desktop office brute of a machine, has no issues at all. The other, a crappy Toshiba lappy, has huge issues with the start menu failing all the time.

 

So to answer your question, i don;t have the foggiest :p

 

Am currently putting together a bug report on why the Start Menu is failing all the time on some specific devices.

 

Do you mind posting the specs of the laptop? Seems like processor and graphics cards is what I need.

Grand Master

MikeChipshop Member

Posted
  • Member
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Am currently putting together a bug report on why the Start Menu is failing all the time on some specific devices.

 

Do you mind posting the specs of the laptop? Seems like processor and graphics cards is what I need.

 

Will do when i get home!

Grand Master

+Eternal Tempest MVC

Posted
  • MVC
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It was supposed to RTM in June/July last I heard....

 

It's possible MS is testing / developing builds not released to the public that has this issue fixed.

Proficient

eiffel_g

Posted
Posted

Nope. You hear it wrong.

RTM will be ready at the beginning of Jully - it was supposed to be June, but there are some delays.

 

In September ( around 20 ) it will be the OFFICIAL launch of Windows 10.

 

It was always like this for the reason that there is a 2-3  months delay for the producers ( OEm Integrators ) to make tests, an prepares to launch the devcies with Windows at the official launch. Usually the same day there are also some updates in WU with fixes wich have not been ready for RTM, or with what issues manufactures have found durng their production.

 

Like that, at the offical launch you will have also some devices with Windows 10 in shops.

 

Now, back on topic - I did't have problems with start menu, other than bad design. It still a lot to work to made it at least the way it was in first previews - without XAML.

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
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Ok, so -

 

- its a separate process, not part of explorer.exe (which is always running)

- its in XAML (all XAML/Metro apps have a big performance penalty - just try to run the new calc and see how long it takes to load)

- the actual app itself has a lot of changes

 

The first 2 reasons are enough reason to worry, even if they can fix these issues, its never going to be instant to open like before. Can't really say its a good decision, esp on lower en d hardware the difference is easily noticeable. 

 

And to those who keep saying 'its not done yet', give it a rest. 6 months of updates and even the most basic issues haven't been fixed, compared to the very first TP there's hardly anything improved.

  • WndSks and FunkyMike
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Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Look in task manager details tab -

 

- Start menu not open, searchui.exe is suspended

- Start menu open, searchui.exe is running

 

Like any other Modern app.

 

this explains why it takes so long for it to open. This is a terrible design. It makes no sense to suspend the app as soon as I close the start menu! In fact it should never be unloaded, its such a basic part of the experience.

 

This is typical of MS treating the desktop as a mobile phone on. On my desktop with 8GB of memory, it makes NO sense to suspend apps. The OS can manage hundreds of active apps and they get swapped out as needed. Same problem exists with any Metro app like Skype, it makes no sense to run them on a desktop/laptop. It has true multitasking, not a model where only one modern app can run at a time. What a disaster.

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zhangm Supervisor

Posted
  • Supervisor
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Look in task manager details tab -

 

- Start menu not open, searchui.exe is suspended

- Start menu open, searchui.exe is running

 

Like any other Modern app.

 

this explains why it takes so long for it to open.

 

Can you elaborate on why the running vs suspended state switch would be expected to give a major performance hit?

Proficient

Defcon

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Can you elaborate on why the running vs suspended state switch would be expected to give a major performance hit?

Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

This delay is seen in any smartphone, when you switch to an app and you can see a delay as it loads, vs those apps that are still running.

Veteran

Ian S.

Posted
Posted

You heard wrong, By the end of summer, which goes all the way up to the end of September.

No... People have been saying end of July for RTM.

Grand Master

zhangm Supervisor

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Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

By "swapped out", do you mean that the data is written to the hard disk and then purged from active memory?

Collaborator

WndSks

Posted
Posted

Any app which is suspended is most likely swappd out, it will have to be first loaded into main memory, then its state has to be restored, then the app has to startup. Its the same thing as running an app for the first time, except its state is restored from saved data, when possible.

 

It's a bit hard to know what exactly happens with these hybrid metro apps but a normal win32 app can also be suspended on every version of NT (Right-click a process in Process Explorer) and that just means that its threads are ignored by the scheduler so they never get to run any code, it does not affect memory in any way but as a result of not running some of its pages might be swapped out or discarded if the machine is running out of memory. Resuming the process again should not be that slow so I think you have to blame the slowness on something else, probably XAML/WinRT or just bad design and/or implementation/code...

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