GI.biz: Oculus' high PC specs are Sony's chance to shine


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The problem is the market simply doesn't exist for something like that. No publisher is going to spend over $100m developing a game when the potential sales may only be a few million. That means we're going to see low-budget, more casually-orientated games.

Of course the market doesn't exist for it now. NONE of these things are out yet. Not Oculus, not Morpheus, not HTC/Valve. Yet EVE: Valkyrie is a AAA quality game that's being shown pretty much everywhere VR is and is getting rave reviews. It's closer to being complete then Star Citizen which you have no problem constantly pointing to.

Sony set up an entire new game studio to make Morpheus games. The market is going to come as the hardware actually starts shipping and developers get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Just like most other 3rd party console games few will be Morpheus exclusive. Just like EVE: Valkyrie they'll go multi-platform to combine the smaller markets and be available for Oculus, Morpheus, and possibly SteamVR as well. It's not going to spring into Grand Theft Auto V level of sales at launch though (or probably ever) sure, but it doesn't have to either to be successful.

I've said from the beginning it's not like most console games are going to go VR, it WILL be a niche no doubt but it's not going to thrive as an optional tack-on to non-VR games. What works best for VR doesn't work best for non-VR and vice versa.

Further, dedicated VR titles need dedicated VR control schemes - using a controller or mouse/keyboard isn't going to cut it.

That's part of what I've been saying to you. Star Citizen has to work with non-VR controllers. I doubt all the controls of Star Citizen in the final game are going to map easily to a gamepad. Even if you fly with a gamepad you'll probably need to hit buttons on the keyboard for less frequently used commands.

That's not going to work with VR. You can't see the keyboard. Eve: Valkyrie works great with a gamepad though. Other games need special VR designed contollers which is the PlayStation Move for Morpheus. Oculus are said to be working on somehting but haven't announced it yet. HTC/Valve I believe have VR "wand" controllers as well similar to the PS Move.

You also need to be able to move about, which is something the HTC Vive supports but that we haven't seen from the Morpheus.

No, you don't. In fact that's very dangerous. VR entirely replaces your vision and possibly even audio if you got headphones on, cranked up. Having people move about when they can't see what they're doing is going to be a huge problem.

Valve did some neat things with trying to map the room and have walls and such fade into the VR experience so you don't walk into walls but pets are going to walk in front of people and all kinds of stuff is going to happen. Furthermore people only have limited space, they aren't going to set up giant dedicated VR rooms to play in. Valve's tech is really cool but it's not going to take off for home use.

It shows most promise for "VR arcades" like indoor paintball or laser tag today. Where there is a large space to move about and people watching what the participants are doing. Home VR is going to be a mostly stationary affair.

 

Star Citizen is a first-person universe and VR will work for every aspect of the game. The way it's being built the ships are simply objects in the first-person universe, meaning there isn't a distinction between the two environments.

That's exactly my point. VR DOES NOT WORK WELL for FPS type games. Star Citizen at it's core is a FPS type game.

Flying a spaceship works well in VR because your character is just sitting in the cockpit flying the ship just like the player is sitting on their couch.

As soon as your character gets up and starts walking around and the player is still sitting stationary on the couch the disconnect starts causing people to get sick.

VR is great for driving and flying games because you're just sitting there, both in game and out. It's HORRIBLE for FPS games.

To make matters worse actual FPS games are HORRIBLY unrealistic in their motions. In VR when you walk around you need to go a somewhat realistic speed, you need to turn at somewhat realistic speeds.

If you slow down the FPS battles in Star Citizen to have realistic movement like that then your mouse/keyboard players are going to revolt. mouse/keyboard players are using to moving at rediculous speeds, making near instant 90 degree turns, etc.

Furthermore mouse/keyboard FPS aim just by looking, there's a dot of some sort in the center of the screen and you line that up. In proper VR where the gun is pointing and where you are looking can be two different things. You can fire a gun strait ahead with looking to the side if you like.

It's not about faith, it's about what the developers have promised.

Believing in not currently realized promises is faith.

As for Eve: Valkyrie, it doesn't look even close to the quality of Star Citizen and it won't because it's being built around the limitations of consoles.

Many AAA games are console only and are thus built around the limitations of consoles. I'm not saying EVE: Valkyrie is going to be a better overall game than Star Citizen.

I'm saying it will be a better VR Experience since it's designed from the ground up for VR and doesn't have to make any concessions to support non-VR users.

Star Citizen has a much larger scope, it has a much larger scope than even other PC games like Elite: Dangerous. Star Citizen is going to be a great game but it's not going to be the poster child for VR.

 

 

VR is going to be best implemented in existing AAA games until the market is able to support dedicated VR titles. There simply can't be any dedicated AAA games on VR until the install base is comparable to that of next-gen consoles, which isn't going to happen. I'd rather have a great game that supports VR than a VR tech demo.

Eve: Valkyrie is a dedicated AAA game that exists today (it's closer to release quality than Star Citizen is anyway) so you're already wrong.

Sure a console game isn't going to have as good of graphics and as complex of a control scheme as a PC game... but that's true for non-VR AAA games as well.

Do you really think the Morpheus is going to outsell the Kinect?

I think Morpheus games will outsell Kinect games easily.

Kinect is a bad example because it can be used as a more commonly used accessory. Kinect games are "motion games" but the largest use for Kinect is just a camera and mic array.

 

It's not entirely new. It allows you to look around independently of the controls but that doesn't have a huge impact in terms of gameplay

Now you're even contradicting yourself. Didn't you just say: "Further, dedicated VR titles need dedicated VR control schemes - using a controller or mouse/keyboard isn't going to cut it."

So they have dedicated control schemes and entirely replace the primary output device of a console/PC yet they don't have a huge impact in terms of gameplay. Are you kidding me?

VR has a HUGE impact in terms of gameplay.

TrackIR is a similar technology.

No, it's not. It's not even close. Have you ever even used VR?
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Of course the market doesn't exist for it now. NONE of these things are out yet. Not Oculus, not Morpheus, not HTC/Valve. Yet EVE: Valkyrie is a AAA quality game that's being shown pretty much everywhere VR is and is getting rave reviews. It's closer to being complete then Star Citizen which you have no problem constantly pointing to.

Sony set up an entire new game studio to make Morpheus games. The market is going to come as the hardware actually starts shipping and developers get a feel for what works and what doesn't. Just like most other 3rd party console games few will be Morpheus exclusive. Just like EVE: Valkyrie they'll go multi-platform to combine the smaller markets and be available for Oculus, Morpheus, and possibly SteamVR as well. It's not going to spring into Grand Theft Auto V level of sales at launch though (or probably ever) sure, but it doesn't have to either to be successful.

I've said from the beginning it's not like most console games are going to go VR, it WILL be a niche no doubt but it's not going to thrive as an optional tack-on to non-VR games. What works best for VR doesn't work best for non-VR and vice versa.

You can't argue that it's niche and then claim we're going to see AAA budget games. It doesn't work like that. Games developed exclusively for VR will have substantially lower budgets because the install base for VR will be small. EVE: Valkyrie doesn't have anywhere near the fidelity or depth that Star Citizen does - it does a great job considering the limitations of the PS4 but it's not even close to what the PC is capable of. For me the gaming experience comes first and I'd rather have a great game with VR support than a good game built around it.

 

Star Citizen has to work with non-VR controllers. I doubt all the controls of Star Citizen in the final game are going to map easily to a gamepad. Even if you fly with a gamepad you'll probably need to hit buttons on the keyboard for less frequently used commands.

That's not going to work with VR. You can't see the keyboard. Eve: Valkyrie works great with a gamepad though. Other games need special VR designed contollers which is the PlayStation Move for Morpheus. Oculus are said to be working on somehting but haven't announced it yet. HTC/Valve I believe have VR "wand" controllers as well similar to the PS Move.

Star Citizen fully supports gamepads, so none of that is relevant.

 

That's exactly my point. VR DOES NOT WORK WELL for FPS type games. Star Citizen at it's core is a FPS type game.

Flying a spaceship works well in VR because your character is just sitting in the cockpit flying the ship just like the player is sitting on their couch.

As soon as your character gets up and starts walking around and the player is still sitting stationary on the couch the disconnect starts causing people to get sick.

VR is great for driving and flying games because you're just sitting there, both in game and out. It's HORRIBLE for FPS games.

To make matters worse actual FPS games are HORRIBLY unrealistic in their motions. In VR when you walk around you need to go a somewhat realistic speed, you need to turn at somewhat realistic speeds.

If you slow down the FPS battles in Star Citizen to have realistic movement like that then your mouse/keyboard players are going to revolt. mouse/keyboard players are using to moving at rediculous speeds, making near instant 90 degree turns, etc.

Furthermore mouse/keyboard FPS aim just by looking, there's a dot of some sort in the center of the screen and you line that up. In proper VR where the gun is pointing and where you are looking can be two different things. You can fire a gun strait ahead with looking to the side if you like.

What are you talking about? VR is perfect for first-person games. In fact many of the games we've seen demoed are first-person games. Alien: Isolation was considered one of the most impressive implementations. You're simply wrong. Sure there are technical issues to overcome but that's true for VR as a whole.

 

Believing in not currently realized promises is faith.

A bit like your claim that EVE: Valkyrie will have better VR support then? The difference is that Star Citizen, despite being in alpha, is playable now with the Oculus Rift. Full support will come further in development, as the game is still a long way from release.

 

I think Morpheus games will outsell Kinect games easily.

Kinect is a bad example because it can be used as a more commonly used accessory. Kinect games are "motion games" but the largest use for Kinect is just a camera and mic array.

Maybe it will but it will be a long time before developers commit serious resources to VR-only games. Also, EVE: Valkyrie isn't representative of the sort of titles we're going to see for Morpheus. You're going to see more games like Street Luge, The Deep and The London Heist, which are more like tech demos. The PS4 can't run games like Alien: Isolation at 60fps and obviously can't even come close to something like Star Citizen.

 

Morpheus is a great way to get into VR if you're on a budget but the experience won't even be close to that of the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive. As I pointed out, the reason the Oculus Rift has high specs is because that's what's required for high-fidelity VR. The specs could easily be lowered if all they wanted to do was match the quality of Morpheus.

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You can't argue that it's niche and then claim we're going to see AAA budget games. It doesn't work like that.

Games developed exclusively for VR will have substantially lower budgets because the install base for VR will be small.

The Guitar Hero and Rock Band series of games with their little plastic instruments are niche games but they're AAA.

Dance games are niche games but they're AAA.

They'll have substantially lower budgets than the TOP AAA titles but AAA encompasses a huge range.

You make it sound like they'll be a bunch of indie games and tech demos only and EVE: Valkyrie is already higher quality than that and none of the hardware that supports it has even launched commercially yet.

Eve: Valkyrie isn't going to be the high point of VR. If that's where it's starting from, with no a single commercial unit sold, then it has a pretty promising AAA future.

EVE: Valkyrie doesn't have anywhere near the fidelity or depth that Star Citizen does

This is more of a console vs. PC argument then a VR vs non-VR argument or a AAA vs. non-AAA argument.

Of course PC games are going to look better than console games. That doesn't make console games non-AAA.

When Halo 5 comes out it's not going to look as good as the best FPS games on PC because it's an Xbox One game and it's limited by the constraints of that hardware. It's still a AAA game.

Star Citizen fully supports gamepads, so none of that is relevant.

Star Citizen supports gamepads. As in you can use them IN ADDITION TO the keyboard and mouse (or joysticks, or whatever).

That's not what I said though. I said "All the controls". I'm pretty sure you won't be able to launch Star Citizen in it's final form when all the modules and such are seemlessly connected and do EVERYTHING in the game entirely on a gamepad without ever touching the keyboard or mouse.

It's a more complicated sim that has more controls than there are buttons on a standard controller.

What are you talking about? VR is perfect for first-person games.

In fact many of the games we've seen demoed are first-person games.

Many of the games we've seen demoed are first-person because that's what people tried first and many 3D engines come from FPS games.

That's what hobbyists devs do is tack VR onto existing FPS games, that's not where the future of VR lies.

Most recent showings have moved away from the first person shooter style gameplay though because it's doens't work well.

Technically they're still first person but you don't move around anymore (at least not quickly), just like being seated in a flying or driving game (which are also technically first person)

Running around in a first person multiplayer shooter environment like Star Citizen's FPS model doesn't work.

Sure there are technical issues to overcome but that's true for VR as a whole.

It's not just a technical issue. It's not like if you just lower the latency or increase the resoltuion or frame rate it's going to go away.

The issue is biology. It's your brain getting confused because what it sees/hears (through the VR headset) says it's moving but your body says it isn't.

Unless they're going to stick something into your nervous system to trick your brain into thinking your body is moving as well that's not likely to change.

Until something like that can happen though the games will tend to be confined to slower moving or stationary genres (like driving, flying, standing at a table doing something, etc.)

It may well be able to work "good enough" in a single player horror game where you move about slow and you're the only one there. It's not going to work in a FPS combat game where you're wearing a VR headset running around and shooting at people who are using mouse/keyboard with no-VR.

The difference is that Star Citizen, despite being in alpha, is playable now with the Oculus Rift.

EVE: Valkyrie is playable now with the Oculus Rift. It's being played at darn near every Oculus and Morpheus trade show.

It's far closer to it's completed state than Star Citizen. Star Citizen is a far more complex game and so far it's just a group of disconnected "modules" that don't even cover the core features that are supposed to be in the game.

How is trading in Star Citizen going? EVE: Valkyrie will almost certainly be a launch title for both the Oculus Rift and Project Morpheus. They can't launch it any sooner because it requires one of those headsets to work. Again though it is playable now on the available dev units.

Maybe it will but it will be a long time before developers commit serious resources to VR-only games.

CCP Games is commiting serious resources to a VR-only game now so you're already wrong and the hardware isn't out yet.

I wouldn't be shocked to find there are several "serious resources" VR-only game announcements at E3 this year since I believe this will be the final one before the hardware starts hitting retail.

EVE: Valkyrie isn't representative of the sort of titles we're going to see for Morpheus.

So you know what titles developers are making for Morpheus? EVE: Valkyrie is a Morpheus launch title. I'm not going to pretend to know what all other Morpheus devs are doing but nor do I believe for one second you have any clue at all.l

You're going to see more games like Street Luge, The Deep and The London Heist, which are more like tech demos.

You must be joking. Those aren't games at all. Those ARE Sony Tech Demos for trade shows. I'm sure there will be stuff like that as well just like there is "The Playroom" for the PS4 for a demo of the PlayStation Camera but there is going to be AAA games as well.

Maybe indie devs will even make a ton of little things like that, just like there are a ton of other indie games on the PS4, but there will be AAA titles as well and the AAA games will be more in line of quality with Eve: Valkyrie (not that they'll all be flight games)

Heck that's the first big non-Sony game and there is ZERO market for it RIGHT NOW so when devs get better and people start actually buying the hardware the games should get better.

The very first PS3 games don't look as good as the very last PS3 games and the very first Morpheus games aren't going to look as good as the later ones either. If the starting line is EVE: Valkyrie that's a pretty darn good start.

The PS4 can't run games like Alien: Isolation at 60fps and obviously can't even come close to something like Star Citizen.

The PS4 can't run a lot of games at 60fps that the PC can. The Xbox One runs even less than the PS4 at 60fps. PS4 and Xbox One still have a ton of AAA games.

Again you're confusing the "PC Master Race" argument with the AAA and VR argument.

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Morpheus is a great way to get into VR if you're on a budget but the experience won't even be close to that of the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive.

Losing one argument so you try to change to another?

Of course VR driven by a PC is going to look better than VR driven by a console. AT NO POINT did I say otherwise. In fact in my first post in this thread... you know the one you replied to at the start of this back and forth...

I specifically said:

"it stands to reason that the target hardware will be higher than console specs."

"The Rift is no doubt going to offer a superior experience to Morpheus"

"From Oculus' point of view Morpheus seems to be the training wheels so you try VR on PS4 and you like it but you want to push beyond that then you "upgrade" to a Rift."

So thank you for restating my point.

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If anything, people should wait buying anything VR for a while, especially Morpheus.

FOVE for example is already upping the ante with even higher resolution of 2560x1440 AND eyetracking, which many developers believe will enhance VR gaming even more.

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The Guitar Hero and Rock Band series of games with their little plastic instruments are niche games but they're AAA.

Dance games are niche games but they're AAA.

AAA games represent those with the highest development and marketing budgets. The highest advertising budget for Rock Band was for The Beatles version at $20m, which pales in comparison to the $150m spent on Call Of Duty that same year. So no, I don't consider them AAA games. They're very successful games but they're relatively cheap to develop and market, unlike the sort of games I'm talking about here (Grand Theft Auto, Star Citizen, Battlefield, Call Of Duty, etc).

 

This is more of a console vs. PC argument then a VR vs non-VR argument or a AAA vs. non-AAA argument.

Of course PC games are going to look better than console games. That doesn't make console games non-AAA.

Losing one argument so you try to change to another?

This topic is about VR and how it will compare on PC and PS4, so of course I'm going to compare the visual fidelity and experience offered. The PC is able to easily manage 60fps in games like GTAV, The Witcher 3, Battlefield 4, etc. The PS4 cannot. In terms of visual fidelity there's no comparison. The only advantage Morpheus has going for it is the lower cost of ownership.

 

Many of the games we've seen demoed are first-person because that's what people tried first and many 3D engines come from FPS games.

That's what hobbyists devs do is tack VR onto existing FPS games, that's not where the future of VR lies.

Most recent showings have moved away from the first person shooter style gameplay though because it's doens't work well.

Technically they're still first person but you don't move around anymore (at least not quickly), just like being seated in a flying or driving game (which are also technically first person)

Running around in a first person multiplayer shooter environment like Star Citizen's FPS model doesn't work.

Source? You claim the developers are moving away from VR for first-person shooters but you haven't provided any evidence. Some of the best implementations we've seen so far have been for first-person games like Alien: Isolation, Half-Life 2, Skyrim, etc. We're also seeing new control schemes to improve things, like the Razer Hydra. First-person is the most natural experience for VR. Your opinion seems to fly in the face of reality.

 

So you know what titles developers are making for Morpheus? EVE: Valkyrie is a Morpheus launch title. I'm not going to pretend to know what all other Morpheus devs are doing but nor do I believe for one second you have any clue at all.l

You must be joking. Those aren't games at all. Those ARE Sony Tech Demos for trade shows. I'm sure there will be stuff like that as well just like there is "The Playroom" for the PS4 for a demo of the PlayStation Camera but there is going to be AAA games as well.

I'm just going based on what we know.

 

At the end of the day the PS4 is struggling to hit 1080p @ 60fps in most AAA games, so the titles we're going to see for Morpheus are by necessity going to be less demanding. Look, don't get me wrong - of all the VR titles we've seen so far EVE: Valkyrie is by far the most impressive - for a low budget title and the first attempt by the developer of a mainstream title

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This topic is about VR and how it will compare on PC and PS4, so of course I'm going to compare the visual fidelity and experience offered. The PC is able to easily manage 60fps in games like GTAV, The Witcher 3, Battlefield 4, etc. The PS4 cannot. In terms of visual fidelity there's no comparison. The only advantage Morpheus has going for it is the lower cost of ownership.

I said the same thing in the post you replied to, I'm glad you agree with me on that point. You frame is as if you're refuting some point I made when you're just restating what I already said... in the post you replied to.

We agree on that point, great! 

Source? You claim the developers are moving away from VR for first-person shooters but you haven't provided any evidence.

Are you serious? You haven't provided any evidence for any of the absurd claims you've made. I'll play along though:

 

Traditional consoles and PCs with a keyboard-and-mouse setup work well for first-person shooters, he said, but the experience doesn't translate well to mobile devices or something like the Wii. The first-person shooter genre is a similarly ill fit for VR, Caballero said, because movements like going backwards, circle-strafing, or ascending stairs at high speed can quickly trigger motion sickness.

"I don't believe the killer app for VR is going to be shooting," Caballero said. "And that is an amazing step forward, an opportunity for all of us."

Source

But a lot of the issues I had playing Dying Light on the Rift seem depressingly tied to default first-person game design. Simply moving around freely in a virtual first-person view, while your body stays stationary in the real world, provides too much of a sensory mismatch for me, and I suspect it will for many others as well.

Oculus, to its credit, seems to be aware of these problems, and devotes much of its 53-page VR game design best practices guide to combating them. Some promising design solutions are already coming to light: adding some sort of visual frame (like a cockpit), slowing down the maximum in-game movement speed, or limiting players to moving between pre-set points can all limit VR's nauseating effects to various degrees.

Source

But for all the hype, Valkyrie might not be the first in a flood of mainstream VR games

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VR driven by a console...

 

Didn't the Oculus guys mention that mobile/laptop GPUs are too weak?

 

Can any of the 2 consoles support an external GPU accelerator + headset?

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An i5 and a GTX 970 is considered eye-wateringly high end?

The ######? That isn't exactly high end specs. The CPU is pretty damn average, and the GPU is a relatively standard / popular GPU.

And you can forget about laptops? He does realize there are plenty of gaming laptops that have a 980M in it right? That chip gets close to a desktop 970 (its about 10 fps off, in some games like crysis 3 they get very similar frame rates). Not to mention there are also laptops that have SLI chips. The only limiting factor is the HDMI port needs to be directly connected to the GPU, which on some laptops it isn't.

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An i5 and a GTX 970 is considered eye-wateringly high end?

The ######? That isn't exactly high end specs. The CPU is pretty damn average, and the GPU is a relatively standard / popular GPU.

And you can forget about laptops? He does realize there are plenty of gaming laptops that have a 980M in it right? That chip gets close to a desktop 970 (its about 10 fps off, in some games like crysis 3 they get very similar frame rates). Not to mention there are also laptops that have SLI chips. The only limiting factor is the HDMI port needs to be directly connected to the GPU, which on some laptops it isn't.

I am not sure where in the world a 970, ($350+ USD) is a standard GPU. I agree with most of your statement though.

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I am not sure where in the world a 970, ($350+ USD) is a standard GPU. I agree with most of your statement though.

For a gaming computer it is and you can find them for about $300. The performance difference between it and the 980 isn't as drastic as the $200 price tag difference would suggest.

The 960 is ~$100 cheaper and significantly worse so really if you're building or upgrading a gaming desktop the 970 falls into the sweet spot between price and performance.

Sure if you're just comparing PCs in general then no the 970 isn't standard but I should have made that clearer in my original post.

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VR driven by a console...

Didn't the Oculus guys mention that mobile/laptop GPUs are too weak?

Can any of the 2 consoles support an external GPU accelerator + headset?

You do develop on a console with far less overheads and right down to a lower level API. It's not as simple as finding a mobile or laptop with the same or similar GPU and saying this will perform the same as a console.

Doubt that. They aren't going to invest in creating an accelerator like that, and no 3rd party addons would ever get the privilege of gaining full OS/hardware access.

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You do develop on a console with far less overheads and right down to a lower level API. It's not as simple as finding a mobile or laptop with the same or similar GPU and saying this will perform the same as a console.

Doubt that. They aren't going to invest in creating an accelerator like that, and no 3rd party addons would ever get the privilege of gaining full OS/hardware access.

 

The less overhead and "close to metal" won't help in this case either.

 

MS HoloLense was initially designed for the Xbox ... it had an external GPU .. just saying.

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I said the same thing in the post you replied to, I'm glad you agree with me on that point. You frame is as if you're refuting some point I made when you're just restating what I already said... in the post you replied to.

We agree on that point, great! 

Fair enough :)

 

Are you serious? You haven't provided any evidence for any of the absurd claims you've made. I'll play along though:

 

Source [irrelevant indie developer who only has one title]

Source [That's one game where there were implementation problems]

Source [That's a developer talking about some of the problems implementing VR, not a suggestion that first-person games can't work]

None of those links suggest developers are abandoning VR for first-person shooters or that it won't be a popular genre. As I pointed out, one of the most talked about VR implementations was Alien: Isolation, which was a FPS; Valve has also put out some serious effort into VR and the feedback has been very positive.

 

You're definition of low budget and mine are clearly very different. I don't consider everything but the top 5 or so games a year as low budget. EVE: Valkyrie is clearly not just an indy game or a tech demo though. Furthermore Dust 514 (which we agree was a failure) was NOT CCP's first title. CCP's main title is EVE Online which is a successful MMO.

EVE Online is a niche game - it doesn't have the appeal or budget of a AAA game. Dust 514 was the first attempt at a mainstream title, which failed. The claim you made was that EVE: Valkyrie is a AAA game, which it isn't. My point is that a great game that supports VR will be better than a good game that is built exclusively for it. As a gamer I'm much more interested in Star Citizen, as I think it will offer the better experience even if the VR implementation isn't quite as good (which remains to be seen).

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None of those links suggest developers are abandoning VR for first-person shooters or that it won't be a popular genre. As I pointed out, one of the most talked about VR implementations was Alien: Isolation, which was a FPS; Valve has also put out some serious effort into VR and the feedback has been very positive.

Alright believe what you like. I posted actual evidence to back up my points and you've done nothing but make unsubstantiated claims.

As I said I've actually used the Rift, I know developers who work on it. So my points are from actual first hand experience but I understand you aren't going to just believe what I say (just as I don't believe you have any clue at all about VR) so I did a quick search to find others who have made similar statements to the press. I really don't care what you think enough to do an in depth search and I have no doubt you'll just ignore or dismiss everything I found anyway so again, believe what you like.

 

EVE Online is a niche game - it doesn't have the appeal or budget of a AAA game. Dust 514 was the first attempt at a mainstream title, which failed. The claim you made was that EVE: Valkyrie is a AAA game, which it isn't.

The fact is there isn't a definitive definition of what AAA game means. Clearly you and I have different definitions. By your definition only a very few games released each year qualify as AAA. I consider Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Dance Central, and EVE Online AAA games because they are successful games released by major publishers and not little low budget indie games or simple tech demos. I think I made what I meant pretty clear from the first post when I specifically said:

"I think it will be like console cameras. The PS2 had the EyeToy, the PS3 had the PlayStation Eye, the PS4 has the PlayStation Camera, The Xbox 360 had the Kinect, the Xbox One has the Kinect 2, etc. These things sell well enough for them to keep making them generation after generation but all games haven't switched to being camera based games. I suspect VR will be the same way."

That's the post you said was "totally wrong" despite restating several of my points since as if they were your own and somehow contradicted what I said. I even made a point to say later that I agree it isn't going to sell like GTA V and it doesn't have to in order to a AAA game. Just like it doesn't have to have PC level graphics in order to be a AAA game (if that were the case there would be NO AAA games on consoles).

My point is that a great game that supports VR will be better than a good game that is built exclusively for it.

That's an absurd comment. Obviously if you use the "great" to describe one and "good" to describe the other then the "great" one is better by definition.

A great game on the 3DS will be better than a good game on PC too.

As a gamer I'm much more interested in Star Citizen, as I think it will offer the better experience even if the VR implementation isn't quite as good (which remains to be seen).

As a gamer I'm much more interested in Star Citizen, as I think it will offer the better experience even if it doesn't have any VR implementation at all.

Again I'm a backer of the game, I backed it on the website before it went to kickstarter, I backed it on kickstarter, and I've got like 6 ships now.

I'm super excited about playing the game and I think it will fantastic and break a lot of new ground. I do not however think it will be a defining VR title, VR is just a little extra that's tacked onto it not a defining part of it. When judged SOLEY through the lens of how good of a VR experience it is I'm all but certain Eve: Valkyrie will be a better VR experience. Not a better overall game, not better graphics, but a better VR experience because it's been designed from the ground up for VR with ZERO compromises made to support non-VR players.

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